A True Arcane Archer. Mod 6 Style

[Impaqt]

I dont like the opposite build at all..

The 5 levels of WIzard significantly enhance the rangers abilitites.

Flip it and what does 5 levels of Ranger give a l11 WIzard? 2wf, Bow Str, a Fav enenmy... Not exciting.

As a l10-11 Wizard your going to miss l12-16 wizard a LOT more than your going to miss l12-16 Ranger levels on the proposed build.

[moorewr]

I dont like the opposite build at all..

The 5 levels of WIzard significantly enhance the rangers abilitites.

Flip it and what does 5 levels of Ranger give a l11 WIzard? 2wf, Bow Str, a Fav enenmy... Not exciting.

As a l10-11 Wizard your going to miss l12-16 wizard a LOT more than your going to miss l12-16 Ranger levels on the proposed build.

Yeah, it was a thought experiment along the lines of rogue 1 or 2/whatever builds. How little ranger do you need to be an effective ranger that is mostly another class? The intent was not to operate as a wizard, although you could to some extent. The result? A build as hard to explain & justify to a PUG as a battle-cleric.

In my idea is BAB is too low - 7 at level 11 and 11 at level 16 - you'd be relying on tensor's or divine power clickies to be effective with a bow. But you'd still be a (squishy) deepwood sniper or tempest ranger with wall of fire and ball lightning.

[Thrudh]

I dont like the opposite build at all..

The 5 levels of WIzard significantly enhance the rangers abilitites.

Flip it and what does 5 levels of Ranger give a l11 WIzard? 2wf, Bow Str, a Fav enenmy... Not exciting.

As a l10-11 Wizard your going to miss l12-16 wizard a LOT more than your going to miss l12-16 Ranger levels on the proposed build.

Agreed... MCing casters is usually not a very good idea... If you do do it, it's best to keep it minimal (like a 13/1 wiz/rogue, or a 13/1 cleric/fighter). Casters have lots of benefits at the higher levels... A lot of melee classes don't really have that much going for them past 11 (with the exception of barbarian since 14th level gives the Critical enhancement)...

11/5 Ranger/wizard is a good balance of classes... 11 ranger gets all the ranger goodies... 5 wizard gets some significant buffs... Self-cast Blur, Haste, Displacement. and Shield are huge on a melee class...

I still think the middle levels for a 11/5 Ranger/Wizard build are very tough...

[Thrudh]

Here's another crazy wrinkle...

My ranger/wizard is a halfling....

Been thinking about respeccing for the Dragonmarks (Cure Light, Cure Serious, Heal)... and then if I got the 5th level of wizard, I could take Maximize for my free meta-magic feat... My understanding is that works even on DragonMarks...

I know, I know... pure craziness!

(I built this guy at least a year ago for fun... I've only recently been playing him a lot... he's working out pretty well... but not having a long-range plan is usually not a good idea for a complicated multi-class like this)

[Mad_Bombardier]

I still think the middle levels for a 11/5 Ranger/Wizard build are very tough...

Agreed. Even with Extend, a 5Wiz's Displacement and Haste only lasts 1 minute (Rage lasts 2 minutes). It's managable for solo play, but unwieldy for group play. Now, if we could get the Practiced Spellcaster feat making it effective caster level 9 for Wizard, we'd be in better shape. And some of the "deep multiclass" builds could be very viable for parties.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with Healing dragonmarks on a Healing class. Wands are just as good for after combat heal up.

[Impaqt]

THe Key is to use yu haste as needed, not as a primary party buff. a Particually long fight where it ran out, or when the arcane is out of spell points.

Blur would be up constantly and displace as needed a Minute of displacement makes ya through most difficult fights.

[Thrudh]

I'm still thinking that displacement scrolls and a haste clickable might be good enough...

Trouble is, I'm closing in on 11th level pretty fast and need to decide if I need to start alternating wiz levels with ranger levels right now in order to keep my skills balanced at cap...

13/3 Ranger/Wizard
12/4 Ranger/Wizard
11/5 Ranger/Wizard
11/3/2 Ranger/Wizard/Fighter

All look good!

[Thrudh]

Something else to note about having a couple of wizard levels... Having Exp Retreat on 100% of the time is great when you're soloing and kiting mobs

(And it's awesome in the lower levels before you get the House P pendant when you're running around town)

Plus Mage Armor when you're wearing robes...

AND... if you're a sneaky type (which my ranger is - try it, it's totally different way to play), having Invisibility to lose aggro, and summon monster I to distract mobs is awesome... And 100% exp retreat makes sneaking much faster

[Xyfiel]

I am not trying to say that the dragonmarks are better, I am just going to do some math and share it with all.

Assuming Extend is already taken.

Dragonmarks use 2 feats and 6aps for 3 extra casts.
6seconds*16levels=96seconds*2extend=192seconds*5ca sts=960/60=16minutes
Mana equivalent of casting 16minutes of displacement using extend+quicken=40*16=640

Energy of the Scholar II=50mana +3aps
Elven Arcanum II=30mana +3aps
Mental Toughness=85mana
Imp. MT=85mana
6aps and 2 feats for 250mana

Rage lasts 2x as long as displacement so all the mana you use on displacement I can use on rage.

In my case I will have the 2 mana enhancements so I am losing 6aps and 170 mana for invisibilities, +2hide, constant rage and displacement. Rage itself is worth 6aps, Ranged damage II is 4 aps, and who wouldn't trade 2 more aps for +2 con/+1will? 170mana vs 640mana worth of displacement, I pick the displacement.

Edit: Forgot to factor in the cost of quicken.

[moorewr]

I am not trying to say that the dragonmarks are better, I am just going to do some math and share it with all.

Assuming Extend is already taken.

Dragonmarks use 2 feats and 6aps for 3 extra casts.
6seconds*16levels=96seconds*2extend=192seconds*5ca sts=960/60=16minutes
Mana equivalent of casting 16minutes of displacement using extend+quicken=40*16=640

Energy of the Scholar II=50mana +3aps
Elven Arcanum II=30mana +3aps
Mental Toughness=85mana
Imp. MT=85mana
6aps and 2 feats for 250mana

Rage lasts 2x as long as displacement so all the mana you use on displacement I can use on rage.

In my case I will have the 2 mana enhancements so I am losing 6aps and 170 mana for invisibilities, +2hide, constant rage and displacement. Rage itself is worth 6aps, Ranged damage II is 4 aps, and who wouldn't trade 2 more aps for +2 con/+1will? 170mana vs 640mana worth of displacement, I pick the displacement.

Edit: Forgot to factor in the cost of quicken.

Hmm.. pure ranger, lesser mark of shadows.. tempting, if very similar to my shadow tank... (15fighter/1 bard)

[Impaqt]

Rage Potions are stil Plentiful and Cheap. You can drink as many rage postions as you want as needed and never have to worry about spell points.

[Thrudh]

Rage Potions are stil Plentiful and Cheap. You can drink as many rage postions as you want as needed and never have to worry about spell points.

Heh, same thing is true of Haste potions and Displacement scrolls...

[Xyfiel]

Ok we can take the rage portion out. Assuming we both have haste and displacement as our spells and use rage pots.

6aps and 170mana vs 7invisiblities, +2hide, 5displacements.
5 quickened and extended displacements are 200 mana, using the worst case scenario of being dispelled after cast.
Removing the 200 mana from both sides we get:
6aps vs 7invisibilties, +2hide, 30mana.
Elven arcanum is 30mana for 3aps. Let's take 3aps/30mana out too. It is a fair tradeoff we both already made once.
Leaving us in the worst case scenario:
3aps vs 7invisibilties and +2hide.
Ranger hide is 3aps if you wanted to take that you come out ahead. Even if you didn't want hide 2, you are spending 3aps for the average quest another 11 minutes of displacement. The only time the 2 feats and ap come out ahead is if you don't plan to use displacement, or the quest is done in under 5 minutes.

[Impaqt]

WHen the cap goes up to 18 I'll be taking 2 more levels of Wizard though (Unless I need 13 for second tier Arcane Archer Enhancment) for access to Firewall, Stoneskin, and enervation.

Haste potions and Displacement scrolls cant be extended. Having them as an extended spell is much better than using the equivalent consumables.

[Ciaran]

I'm actually playing this type of character right now... and was about to ask for some advice about long-term planning when I saw this thread

Currently at 8/2 ranger/wizard...

There are a lot of advantages to splashing wizard with a ranger... You get Extend for free, a bunch more Spell-points, the Shield spell (really helps when you're using two weapons, and protects against enemy magic-missiles), access to arcane wands (like Remove Curse and Stoneskin)... Rangers can already use Remove Disease wands, so being able to use Remove Curse wands as well is very nice..



The comments someone made about leveling this type of character are accurate... I'm only two levels behind normal ranger progression, yet it has been very hard to wait to 10th level for barkskin, 11th level for evasion, etc. I can't imagine waiting until level 13 for evasion like the posted build.. Evasion starts becoming very useful around 8th level and on... A high reflex score feels sub-par when you're still taking half-damage... You feel (and look) like a gimped ranger.

Of course you'll be fine once you get to the level-cap, and for many power-gamers, getting there isn't too hard... For many others though those middle levels (And I'm talking about 8-12 here, it's NOT a small stretch) are going to be tough.

I really want my 3rd favored enemy (I won't get that until level 12 - and then the Demon Queen is in big trouble)

I was intending to do 11/3 Ranger/Wizard... But with the level cap going to 16, I've also been considering 5 levels of wizard like the build detailed in this post...

My big questions are... you think a 11/5 Ranger/Wizard will have enough SP to keep displacement and haste up all the time? (Hopefully someone else will be hasting, so you only have to keep displacement up). At 8/2, I have about 400 SP (with a Magi dagger).. I try to hit everyone with barkskin, and resists on myself and anyone else who needs it... which usually drains most of my SP... I have no idea how pure rangers can manage their SP. I usually have enough left over to keep my 4 minute Shields and Exp Retreat running all the way to the next shrine.

I had planned to go
9/2 (Evasion!)
10/2 (3rd favored enemy - 3rd shot on multi-shot!)
10/3 (Blur and False Life)
11/3 (30 point resists, GTWF, Precise Shot)

But I really don't want to take the last two levels as a wizard since that will mess up my ranger skills...

I'm thinking about just using displacement scrolls for the big fights and sticking with only 3 levels of wizard (or maybe going 12/4, and waiting to the NEXT level increase to get to 13/5).

Heh, I've even been thinking about grabbing a level or two of fighter for the extra feats (so maybe a 11/3/2 Ranger/Wizard/Fighter).

I think a Ranger/Wizard is a great combination... but I very rarely see anyone playing it. I get a lot of comments on my build... many assume I'm pretty gimped... but I do very well (at least so far in the mid-levels). I can do some serious party buffing with all my SP, so I'm much appreciated by other casters. I can fight with two weapons and only have 3 AC less than someone with a +5 heavy shield... etc., etc., etc.

A ranger/wizard is very fun to play... but there is a LOT of "man, I can't wait to get to the next level!" (One tip - definitely get two levels of wizard fairly early on. 2 minute Shields are way too short; 4 minute shields work pretty well)

Character creation is so much fun in DDO....

Funny I should happen upon this thread - I was just discussing with some guildies whether or not I should stay pure ranger or splash wizard. They pointed out the free extend part and that was intriguing enough to me. I only have a base INT of 10, so I don't think I'd get any extra spell points, would I? I have some INT goggles in my bank, so I'd be able to cast wizard spells and I like that a level of wizard would give me the ability to use flame arrow wands and scrolls.

The thing is I'm level 8 right now...is it too late to start splashing wizard? I was thinking maybe getting to 11 as a ranger and then taking the last three levels of wizard. What am I missing out on by doing so?

[Xyfiel]

You will get magical training at least so 80 sps. Option of Energy of Scholar I and Elven Arcanum for cheap as well. +4int item would give 20sps. You should end up with 100-150 more sps.

My Ranger is at 7 and I have concluded being pure archer to wait till after 11 for wizard levels.

[Ciaran]

You will get magical training at least so 80 sps. Option of Energy of Scholar I and Elven Arcanum for cheap as well. +4int item would give 20sps. You should end up with 100-150 more sps.

My Ranger is at 7 and I have concluded being pure archer to wait till after 11 for wizard levels.

Ahh, thanks for pointing that out - totally spaced on Magical Training.

I think I'll do the same thing and take wizard levels after 11. I still wear armor (+4 mith BP) but I have +6 armor bracers in the bank and some nice robes as well, so I might make the switch to robes down the line. Dex should wind up in the 30/32 range I think.

The trickiest part about speciality builds - inventory tetris!

[GeneralDiomedes]

Personally for me as an Archer, Solid Fog is the spell I would be most interested in. Sleet storm is a possible alernative, but in my experience it doesn't slow down mobs enough.

[EinarMal]

Dragonmarks +1, they are worth way more spell points than mental toughness. Since they work off of your character level they only get better. At level 20 extended that will be 4 minute displacements versus casting them 1 minute at a time. It is much easier to keep them up all the time, and saves spell points over taking mental toughness.

If you plan on using extended displacements a lot then dragon marks are the way to go on an elf. With just extra dragon mark III, 6 AP, you are looking at 5 displacements lasting 4 minutes each between shrines.

To cast 20 minutes worth of displacements as a 5th level or even 7th level caster takes lot of spell points.

Mental toughness at level 20 even is only worth 105 spell points or 105/30 or 3.5 extended displacements lasting only a little over a minute with 7 levels of wizard (84 seconds). So, with MT and IMT you could cast 7*84=588 seconds of displacement.

It is two feats and 6 AP, but it adds up to more than MT & IMT, and it is not even close, 588 seconds versus 1200 seconds.

[ArkoHighStar]

the only thing I see as overkill is 22 int, since you are only casting buffs, int score is not as important and you really only need a 18.
Just a thought as you could put the extra points into something else like str.