Permanent Item Damage and Death Penalty changes

[ccheath776]

However, to use your mentality and reasoning, if you gamble in Las Vegas and hit it big or win the lottery for 60 million dollars you're not getting the full amount of what you won because Uncle Sam takes his piece. Are you going to complain about only winning 45 million dollars instead of 60 million? Didn't think so.?

YOUR DAM RIGHT I would be upset. I want my 60 million. Who likes taxes afterall? Comon. That isnt even an argument for this forums thread.
More is always better. If I can get more under one system as opposed to another I want the system I can get more out of.
You cant convince anyone that 7k xp out of a quest is better than 10k xp can you?
If you can Id like to hear how.

IN the end so what my vorpal gets damaged and I can't use it anymore. Big deal. Just go out and quest till I find another one.
Or get enough money to buy a new one. Its not even a real weapon its little digits and bytes in a computer virtual world.
So what get another weapon or play differently or I dunno go play donkey kong.

Item damage is much more preferable to Xp loss. Xp loss is time lost. I want to be able to log in and gain xp not log in get negative xp and then make up for it. This is a game and having fun is all a part of it. Making up debt is no fun, its too close to real life. I have credit card debt, car debt, tax debts, I dont want to have XP debt as well.
Just another debt to worry about.
Games shouldn't have debts to pay off, they should be log in and play. End of story.

[Ciaran]

Thanks for the story, it does back up with we heard from El as a key reason for the change. Here's the thing though...they don't need to damage our stuff to fix this.

They could also solve the problem by eliminating xp debt below L5 or 6 (by which time they are hooked ) instead of the current system of just not having a penality at L1. Adding the debuff planned would also be a good replacement penalty across the board.

Exactly. The reason for targetting our gear is not so new players can enjoy the game more...

What do you think about just having trial accounts be exempt from the death penalty or having the first 30 days be exempt from it?

[xman26]

I'm currently also looking at a way of integrating item hardness into the formula.

+5 Adamantine armor should indeed be sturdy.

1. ANything made out of Adamantine should be more sturdy, same thing for Byesk and Mitheral as all 3 are harder materials than steel or iron.
2. Why are you doing this change to begin with, system isn't broke. Only those used to playing WOW who are now playing this are complaining. I'm paying to play DDO, not WOW.
3. Why wasn't the cap raised with the last MOD?
4. Wanna make a worth while change, ditch the XP regen and make quests stop giving XP for each difficulty level after so many runs at that level. EI: I have run PoP 12 times on elite now and I'm still getting 10+k each time. Something wrong with this I think.
5. And whats up with the paying to post at the AH and also having to pay if the item sells? This is very stupid aswell. If the item doesn't sell, we should get the posting fee back, otherwise all it really does is take my hard earned gold, which I dont have alot of.

[ArkoHighStar]

Same here. It's not so much the item damage penalty that bothers me, but the fact that at higher level where death is much easier to have happen and to have happen repeatedly the penalty is so harsh. They've shifted the pain to the higher level, most likely more experienced (but not always) players.

To that last point, I've run with more level 14's that had only been playing the trial or only been playing for a few weeks than new people frustrated and inhibited by the current death penalty. How they did I have no idea, because they zerg and otherwise do annoying things in group. Obviously as new players they were able to overcome the crippling XP debt penalty...

this is why I think any penalty based on level will never work, we should use the system Turbine gave us for things to be more difficult and costly, and that is quest difficulty. Want to do a quest on normal then the max penalty will always be level 3 regardless of level. Want to do it on hard then you can go to level 4. Do it on elite and you can scale to 5. With this method everyone starts at 1 but on hard and elite you can go higher up the scale. Those of us who jump into new conten rack up most of our "learning deaths" on normal, as we learn the quest, moving up to elite as we die less on normal( some are faster at it than others), but the effect is still the same. The effect is the same do a quest on elite and your scale is higher nothing more, you simply run the risk of a greater debuff or the dreaded item damage( no I am not a fan), but we all start on the same level, at death #1.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Wow, I hadn't thought about this but that's right on. .

It hadn't hit me either... when I first heard the idea of hardness it sounded like a good one to me... until I talked to a couple people who play 99% robed types...

[ArkoHighStar]

1. ANything made out of Adamantine should be more sturdy, same thing for Byesk and Mitheral as all 3 are harder materials than steel or iron.
2. Why are you doing this change to begin with, system isn't broke. Only those used to playing WOW who are now playing this are complaining. I'm paying to play DDO, not WOW.
3. Why wasn't the cap raised with the last MOD?
4. Wanna make a worth while change, ditch the XP regen and make quests stop giving XP for each difficulty level after so many runs at that level. EI: I have run PoP 12 times on elite now and I'm still getting 10+k each time. Something wrong with this I think.

are you capped, because xp does get less every time you run it, unless you are capped and all the counters are reset, so that when you level up you can take advantage of the lost xp if you so choose(its still lost mind you) but you can go back for it if you want.

[The_Phenx]

I still say no item damage unless its a party wipe.

Then the monsters would have time to bash all your gear....

[xman26]

are you capped, because xp does get less every time you run it, unless you are capped and all the counters are reset, so that when you level up you can take advantage of the lost xp if you so choose(its still lost mind you) but you can go back for it if you want.

I am capped now, but before I was capped, I had run it 8 times by then on elite was getting around 12K at that time.

[kruggar]

seems to em that this formula is more fair


(((<hardness> - <base hardness>)^2)/(<base hardness>^2))*<modifier>


modifier 2%
base hardness 14

hardness - penaltie/bonus dmg

5 0,83% penaltie
6 0,65%
7 0,50%
8 0,37%
9 0,26%
10 0,16%
11 0,09%
12 0,04%
13 0,01%
14 0,00% zero
15 0,01% bonus
16 0,04%
17 0,09%
18 0,16%
19 0,26%
20 0,37%
21 0,50%
22 0,65%
23 0,83%
24 1,02%
25 1,23%
26 1,47%
27 1,72%
28 2,00%
29 2,30%
30 2,61%

[kruggar]

maybe increasing the modifier to 4%?

[Ciaran]

YOUR DAM RIGHT I would be upset. I want my 60 million. Who likes taxes afterall? Comon. That isnt even an argument for this forums thread.
More is always better. If I can get more under one system as opposed to another I want the system I can get more out of.
You cant convince anyone that 7k xp out of a quest is better than 10k xp can you?
If you can Id like to hear how.

Sure, you can get upset, but do you know what most people would tell you? Shut up and get over it, you still have 45 million dollars, and that's 44.9 million more than most people will ever get. It wasn't meant as a serious example anyway, it was meant to point out the two things (the game and real life) are totally different from each other. If you don't like it, then stop bringing up irrelevent real life examples that are laugh out loud ridiculous when applied to this situation. For the record, I have a hard time believing you would gripe about 45 million when you could've had 60. For most people it's just numbers when you start talking about that much money that is being GIVEN to you....

That's the problem, some people want max reward for minimum effort. If you die in a quest you lose XP. The argument isn't over 7k being better than 10k because of course it isn't, that shouldn't even be on the table to debate. The argument is lost XP is temporary for most people and can be regained.

Oh, and guess what? If you die enough in a quest enough to have to recall to repair or regain HP/SP you are getting dinged for XP when you re-enter. Why aren't you clamoring for the re-entry penalty to be done away with? You're still "permanently losing XP" you could have otherwise had...

IN the end so what my vorpal gets damaged and I can't use it anymore. Big deal. Just go out and quest till I find another one.
Or get enough money to buy a new one. Its not even a real weapon its little digits and bytes in a computer virtual world.
So what get another weapon or play differently or I dunno go play donkey kong.

Are you serious? So here you are complaining about XP Debt being "wasted time" yet you are endorsing wasting time to regain an item that you lost from blanket death penalty damage when you could be doing something else? Sorry, but except on rare occassion I can only stand to do a handful of loot runs before I get tired of it.

I particularly like this statement:

Its not even a real weapon its little digits and bytes in a computer virtual world.

Do you not realize that this applies to the entire game, so by that logic getting arsed about any penalty is equally silly, as you seem to suggest in regards to item damage?

Item damage is much more preferable to Xp loss. Xp loss is time lost. I want to be able to log in and gain xp not log in get negative xp and then make up for it. This is a game and having fun is all a part of it. Making up debt is no fun, its too close to real life. I have credit card debt, car debt, tax debts, I dont want to have XP debt as well.
Just another debt to worry about. Games shouldn't have debts to pay off, they should be log in and play. End of story.

Okay, you've lost me. Again you're comparing meager XP debt to real life. The two things are drastically different from each other so much as to not warrant any kind of meaningful comparsion.

Item loss is time lost too, you know. Consider how much longer a difficult quest will be to complete if you have to recall and repair every few deaths and then get dinged on XP for re-entering. After all, isn't that XP debt in just another way? You re-enter and you're not getting as much XP as you would've otherwise. You will have to make that XP up, won't you? Consider how much time you've added to the quest now, as well as how much time you've added to advancing your character.

[Mercules]

1. ANything made out of Adamantine should be more sturdy, same thing for Byesk and Mitheral as all 3 are harder materials than steel or iron.
2. Why are you doing this change to begin with, system isn't broke. Only those used to playing WOW who are now playing this are complaining. I'm paying to play DDO, not WOW.
3. Why wasn't the cap raised with the last MOD?
4. Wanna make a worth while change, ditch the XP regen and make quests stop giving XP for each difficulty level after so many runs at that level. EI: I have run PoP 12 times on elite now and I'm still getting 10+k each time. Something wrong with this I think.
5. And whats up with the paying to post at the AH and also having to pay if the item sells? This is very stupid aswell. If the item doesn't sell, we should get the posting fee back, otherwise all it really does is take my hard earned gold, which I dont have alot of.

1. no need to comment
2. Never played WoW. I don't like the current death penalty. Ergo it is not only those used to playing WoW who are complaining.
3. Because they weren't ready to do so?
4. Yes, PotP gives too much XP compared to other quests(although it is better now)
5. It helps keep the initial bids lower. Are you going to post something worth 1K plat for 100K plat if you know you won't sell it for that amount but will loose 1K just to post it? No.

[geezee]

Waiting around for penalties to expire makes the game less intense. Now it will be easier for me to walk away from the comp and do something else. And we have to harvest shards to keep our items from being destroyed too? So we end up wasting the endless hours it took to get our uber gear together?

The penalty of taking longer to finish the quest because your character died is already enough. Without any death penalties.

Why not impliment some changes that make the game more fun to play, instead of making up more penalties?

[Mercules]

Waiting around for penalties to expire makes the game less intense. Now it will be easier for me to walk away from the comp and do something else. And we have to harvest shards to keep our items from being destroyed too? So we end up wasting the endless hours it took to get our uber gear together?

The penalty of taking longer to finish the quest because your character died is already enough. Without any death penalties.

Why not impliment some changes that make the game more fun to play, instead of making up more penalties?

For many people a game where dying actually -means- something is more fun to play.

[Ciaran]

For many people a game where dying actually -means- something is more fun to play.

True enough. The problem is we can't agree on what it should mean, especially given the way the game is.

[Prinstoni]

WOW...You would think with such strong opposition to this system (acccording to at least 50&#37; of these posts), that the devs would consider wether or not they should be changing the system in this direction.

I am insulted...absolutely of the direction of this idea.

1) I think it is insane for us to be forced to either pay to bind items in order to avoid permanent damage to them
2) take permenent damage on rare randomly dropped items that we share between characters versus taking xp debt which can be recovered simply from running any quest

Why change a system that although may not be perfect is more in line with actual D&D rules. Most of us are here for the D&D.

I hate the idea and I will cancel my account if it is implemented!

[Havok34]

Still in favor of it MT.

Succeeds in achieving what the DEV's wanted.

And as a capped player, I would much rather face 2% damage at my first death then 10%.

Ran the Reaver last night. Had one of those instances where half the party was in 'detention'. One of the party members flew east and rescued all those that died. Right into the Reaver sending everyone to the ceiling. For those that haven't run Reaver yet, you are raised in the middle of the Reaver room, under the hole with all the sharp pointy sticks. Instant Death.

If that wasn't bad enough, we had the one that flew east had an itchy pull finger and well... up we went again to die.

So 1 death to get into detention, deaths 2 and 3 from a quick puller. That wasn't the end of it either. But an example of how quickly deaths can rack up in the Reaver when things go wrong.

Add the touch of dolurthh penalty and the item damage.... not fun.

This is one reason why I don't agree with the generic every item equipped is damaged penalty.

I don't mind changes. I can adapt. But 'death' happens. I don't play permadeath because unfortunate things happen and you die. Sometimes it is because someone 'zergs' ahead, sometimes it is a random 1 shot death. I can only control my character. I don't like 'blanket' penalties like what is planned.

[ArkoHighStar]

For many people a game where dying actually -means- something is more fun to play.

and for some it is less so , and this is the current dilemna who to please

[Lorien_the_First_One]

For many people a game where dying actually -means- something is more fun to play.

And for many people a punitive approach like the one suggested means the game will be less fun.

[ccheath776]

So the bottom line is people are really worried about item damage more than the removal of the xp loss. Thats what I am hearing.

Well the hardiness is a great idea. Adamantium should be more durable. I agree.

People can say the system wasn't broke as is. They can say that, and those that say it are the current loyal customers. Your not seeing the big picture that this game must have an influx of new players and a good start is to eliminate the top negative feedback producer which was the xp penalty according to the new players.

Its amazing to hear "The only people complaining are the former WOW players who came here and left...." I would love to have all the former WOW players come here and stay. WOW has like 4 million subs. Even a fraction of that came here that would be a big deal for the DDO circle.