Permanent Item Damage and Death Penalty changes

[Hendrik]

THats Easy.....

THere is a Benefit to binding the Item. It eliminates Permanent Damage.

There would have to be a Penalty for Removing that bind. ANd it hasnt been thunk up yet.....

Good chance for item destruction.

Attempting to break the magical bond that exists could be a nasty experience....

[Impaqt]

When I was involved with SWG, we had both. At one point even, when you cloned, release for us, you were back at the Hospital, nekkid, and had to RUN back to your corpse to gain your equipment back. Ahh, corpse runs to Krayt Valley....

SWG Removed Item Decay on death with the NGE.... I stopped playing shortly after that.. (as did most people). Wasit brought back?

[Impaqt]

Good chance for item destruction.

Attempting to break the magical bond that exists could be a nasty experience....

Actually, I posted what I thought was a good idea earlier int he thread....

Bound Items that are unbound lose 25% of their original Durability (Limiting the Bind/Unbind process to 4 times) and are reset to their Actual Minimum Level. (This stops people from Unbinding Raid loot to use on alts)

[binnsr]

Totally incorrect!

You can run just ONE of the Relic quests to gain enough to repair your armor.


Ok, maybe two if your unlucky.

My point was that I've repaired my two sets of armor 1x in 2 months, which means that I've run prison of the planes once (i don't farm it like others do and had the extra 3 to make 5 for repairs given to me by other members of the party) and cabal for one once (again, the other 4 were from the other members of the party).
If I'm taking more damage, that means I'm in those quests more often for the sole purpose of acquiring components to effect these more frequent repairs.
Having to schedule repair runs every week will get old rather quickly (for me - I know there are folks who love running the same quests repeatedly until they puke, but thats not my bag).

thanks

[Hendrik]

SWG Removed Item Decay on death with the NGE.... I stopped playing shortly after that.. (as did most people). Wasit brought back?

No clue Impaqt, I left just before NGE hit. Details were leaked and I packed up my lightsaber and went home.

[Impaqt]

My point was that I've repaired my two sets of armor 1x in 2 months, which means that I've run prison of the planes once (i don't farm it like others do and had the extra 3 to make 5 for repairs given to me by other members of the party) and cabal for one once (again, the other 4 were from the other members of the party).
If I'm taking more damage, that means I'm in those quests more often for the sole purpose of acquiring components to effect these more frequent repairs.
Having to schedule repair runs every week will get old rather quickly (for me - I know there are folks who love running the same quests repeatedly until they puke, but thats not my bag).

thanks

True.. But since bound items take no perm damage, you can wait till your Dragonscale armor is down to 10% before you have to fix it. ANd if we get a Item repair on Rest Via Repair Skill, thats gonna be a long time for most folks.... 2 Months doesnt seem u nreasonable.

[Hendrik]

My point was that I've repaired my two sets of armor 1x in 2 months, which means that I've run prison of the planes once (i don't farm it like others do and had the extra 3 to make 5 for repairs given to me by other members of the party) and cabal for one once (again, the other 4 were from the other members of the party).
If I'm taking more damage, that means I'm in those quests more often for the sole purpose of acquiring components to effect these more frequent repairs.
Having to schedule repair runs every week will get old rather quickly (for me - I know there are folks who love running the same quests repeatedly until they puke, but thats not my bag).

thanks

Ahh, I see your point now a bit better binnsr, thank you.

Wearing your armor to get scales for repairs, getting more damage, needing more scales, getting more damage....

A spiral I know myself all to well - **** the Gods for making me look so good in Black Dragonplate!



I have been finding myself putting up the armor from time to time to allow for a few more scales to come my way, then bust it out again. Might not be a great solution, but working so far...

[Jondallar]

What if I had to pay a large sum of PP to unbind an item, if say at a later date I wanted to send the item to another character. I would be fine with the damage penalties for death, and the protection of bound items. If the cost made it less attractive to sell the item, but more attractive to trade the item it would be a decent work around the potential permanent damage from death. If I had to pay 100k platinum ( at cap, lscaling the cost of unbinding as levels are gained much like exp debt) to unbind an item, I would not do so lightly. I know lots of people have tons of PP (DfC comes to mind) and they would have the luxury of binding and unbinding at will, and on the flip side there are others who dont even have 10k pp on capped characters. But this would have some middle ground.

Also the whole unbinding process could have a quest associated with it to get a certain item (special dragon shard, bound like raid loot) that would also be a time investment required by players who want to unbind items. So in implimenting this idea the change would proceed as planned by the dev team, but a new quest(s) would be required to be made for say lvl 4,8,12,16 to get the appropriate shard and difficulty. The quest could actually be fun and not just a plain time sink. Also the fee for unbinding would take excess money out of the economy, especially if the items unbound were then placed on the AH. It would be like RL where we get double taxed

Hopefully this idea has some merit and could be fleshed out by someone more articulate than myself.

Also I like the neg level/fear death penalty component. I hate needless death in this game as it takes some of the fun and challange out the game when I can rack up -60k DP in 2 hours of reckless play but gain it back in an evening of running quests or worse a week of just playing another capped character and letting my indebted char recharge exp. This is especially true with the new changes to content release, where we will be waiting 2-6 months between updates.

[Eladrin]

I saw (potentially, I have been wrong before) on the Stone of Change...the binding thingie...
8(eight) spots/slots.
1. Are these slots for binding 8 items?
2. Can more than one type of item (lets say 2 trinkets) be bound at once?
3. Once the item is "Bound" can it be "sold" to say a general vendor?

The five slots on the Eldritch Devices (like the Stone of Change) are for various other recipes. The Bind recipe is "Any Item" + "Khyber Dragonshard Fragments".

You can bind as many objects you like, just place them in the device one at a time with dragonshard fragments. When you hit "Activate", it'll bind the object currently in it. If you put two items in there with the dragonshard fragments, the activate will probably just fail. (As it doesn't match the recipe of "Item + Fragments")

Bound objects can be freely sold to vendors, as any Bind on Acquire object (worth greater than zero copper) in the game currently can be. (But not newbie gear.)

OK, SO WoW Does damage your Items when you die..... But it seems to me there is no Permanent damage in Wow now....

Every magic item in that game is also either Bind on Equip or Bind on Acquire. You can achieve the same results with our plan by voluntarily binding your objects, but we let you choose to instead NOT bind your objects if you prefer to be able to trade them, but be at risk of occasional permanent damage on repair.

Have to equip all capped toons with banisher, smiter, disruptor, multiple planer girds, etc because you dont want us trading items between capped toons......
looks to me like you are actually catering to the plat farmers, creating a huge market for them.

That may be the case all items were made to Bind on Equip, but you don't have to bind unless you want to, and we dropped the permanent damage rates pretty significantly on unbound objects. Also, remember that you can also use an item until it's busted down to 0 durability, trade it to the character you want it on, then bind it and go repair.

If you're "hidden agenda" isn't to (take items out of the economy/switching between people's alts) by binding them, why don't you have an UNBIND for non-raid, non-already bound items?

The benefits you gain from binding should be balanced against the costs. If you don't think they're worth it, don't do it. Giving everyone the ability to apply the benefits of binding on any object they own was meant a little bonus.

An "unbind" option would greatly decrease the costs of binding objects. Unless it were overwhelmingly painful to do, it'd be foolish not to bind everything you use.

[Jondallar]

I jsu had another thought what if newly bound items dropped 2 levels for the required level to equip much like current bound items? This would also make it much more Palitable to bind items ( of course then it would be impractical to allow unbinding in this situation)

[Akhad_Durn]

Good loot is plentiful in the game. If you play the high-end content and play it often enough and play it on elite. What you can't get readily from good drops you can get by using a high haggle character to sell off and then buy at the Auction House. Go to your server's marketplace forum and look at the long lists of high-end loot that people are trying to trade away. (Or even a few of us sell ours at very reasonable prices!)

Your complaint is not justified on its merits. Get into better PUGs, or find a larger guild that not only can field a 6-man party, but that can put together two raids at the same time. Your complaint isn't about the system, but about how it affects someone who is playing in a way that isn't currently working well for you.

My complaint is that we're trade non- permanent XP loss, for permanent equipment damage. How isn't that justified?

Change the way I play? Why? I'm having fun. I just want my nice items to remain with me. Of course I'm commenting on how the change is going to affect me, who else should I be commenting for?

Apparently good loot is more plentiful for you than for me. I ran "Inferno of the Damned" and "Temple of Vol" both twice last night, on a fighter and a rogue. The most usable items I got from running these quests was a +'1 Seeker (+10) Kopesh of Something-useless'. Everything else was a random mix of pre and post-fixes I don't use, or caused the item to be so watered down on the given stat that I would want, that I have no use for it. The end rewards were a bunch of ML 8 items... These are the items I'm normally getting, I don't find this strange and it doesn't make me mad, it does make the good items I do find all the better. No one wants ghost touch, and sacred items... there’s just too many of these that don't have any use at the ML they require.

Oh... I also ran PoP on my rogue (lvl 13 rogue) (yeah someone actually let my rogue run PoP with them, that isn’t all that common). No better luck on items from there.

I have a high haggle bard I use to sell off all the junk I can't convince people to buy off auction. I have a "get rich" system, but not a "get rich quick" system. My starting auction values are usually 50% the base value with the buyout between %80 - %150 of base value. I always have a buyout. My auctions are reasonable, more reasonable than the vast majority of the items I see on the auction house. I have no interest in spending my limited play time reading through pages and pages of auction house items, I don't find auctioning fun. If I do bid on an item I want, someone has usually worked out the 10 minute time frame that the auction is going to end and starts bidding during that time frame. If I do catch that I've been out bid its usually too late to out bid them. I'm not going to waste time babysitting things I'm bidding on, especially since I don't know when the auction will really end. I do have fun running quests and pulling high end items from chests, I pulled a "Sirroco" the other night. I really got a kick out of that. It might not be the best at this point, but to me this is far better than clicking ‘buyout’…

If I find high end equipment, I use it. I don't have extra that I can trade off. Most people aren't looking to trade good or "uber" stuff for the junk I'm pulling.

Getting into "better" PuGs? How do I know that I'm in a good PuG? Ask if everyone has uber items? This doesn't prove anything, the plays are usually the weak link, not the equipment. Perhaps by party composition? I've been in some great but on parties. Decided to try a party composed of 2 x mages, 3 paladins, and 1x rogue (mine). We ran giant hold elite quests the rest of the night, no issues, no deaths. So that method doesn't work. Drop from PuGs sooner on finding that they suck? Wasn't I just saying that...

My guild is a group of my friends, we have fun playing together, that’s really the whole point here point (fun). Dropping my guild isn't going to happen. As a group of four we're tight, we know each other very well. Sadly though the others don't have much time to play recently, which leaves me to group with people who are running quests that I want to run.

I've been playing since March 2006, didn't bother with the forums until much later when I wanted to know what was up with the new patches being released. It isn't like I haven’t been playing, I'm just not good at pulling great loot. Which isn’t really the point either.

I want the good loot I have to remain good and usable by any of my characters. Sure, under the current system it may get dinged up some times, but I think the new system is going to really accelerate this process.

[bigal4458]

I like the new system.

Short, concise, no flaming or baiting. Just how I feel.

[soulthunder]

Having a bound item as a quest reward significantly reduces the minimum level requirement for said item. Why not make that effective with this system as well

Meaning. If I have a min lvl 8 rr vorpal ls and willingly bind it to me, shouldn't it theoretically be min lvl 6?

Just a thought.

[Serpent]

Well the Thread I posted this in got locked so I repost.

Here's a response. It's about removing items from game, whether it be by having them become damaged more faster, to break them. Or by having them become bound so when at later levels we get new gear our old gear only good for Steppy (hope you all get that reference).

That is why they are doing. The Death effect is only a cause of this.

[Impaqt]

An "unbind" option would greatly decrease the costs of binding objects. Unless it were overwhelmingly painful to do, it'd be foolish not to bind everything you use.

WHy not make it Overwhelmingly painful to do then?

I'd rather take a significant durability hit on an item and give it to a lowb after I obtain a better item than have to sell it to a broker.

The huge issue is that forcing us to bind items to avoid damage is the unknown..... This game has survived almost 2 years with peopel being able to freely trade and transfer powerful gear.

Now, Mod 6 rolls around and while you are "Reducing the risk of permanant Damage" your actually significantly increasing it because of the death penalty.

We dont get ALL of our items damaged very often.. and certainly not by 10% Increments...... The chance may be halved, but the amount of damage will be significantly more than double.

[Hence]

Eladrin: Can you fix the typo when you successfully bind an item?

Ritual of Binding
Currently (per your screenshot) it reads: "Ritual Success! Your item now bound!"
When it should read: "Ritual Success! Your item is now bound!"

Im going to leave all the, "All our base are belong to us" remarks off at this time.
Thanks.

[Serpent]

The benefits you gain from binding should be balanced against the costs. If you don't think they're worth it, don't do it. Giving everyone the ability to apply the benefits of binding on any object they own was meant a little bonus.

This all may be true, but it has nothing to do with the death penalty complaints. No one said " I hate having to remake up lost XP, could you change this and break my equipment while you are at it." The two issues are separate from each other. We all want to know why you combined them?!

If its for the reason I stated earlier then great I might not like it but you are being honest. I appreciate that. But we still have no real reason why. Please answer this.

EDIT:

Also couldn't more time be spent on content or other ideas then just trying to remove equipment from the game?

[GeneralDiomedes]

Also couldn't more time be spent on content or other ideas then just trying to remove equipment from the game?

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to toss that old chestnut on the fire.

[GeneralDiomedes]

I'm not saying unbinding would be easy. I'm just saying it would be doable, if you really didn't want to stick your Boots of the Innocent on one character forevermore. Why not something like using a Siberys Dragonshard to unbind it?

Unbinding would undermine the whole system, that's why.

[Eladrin]

Something from the Codemasters forums that I wanted to address:

What this will create is hours of 'solo' (needed to secure your fragments against breakable campers) grinding in quests like Hips etc just to break the crates and collect enough Khyber fragments until you have secured your gear.

Khyber Dragonshard Fragments will be fairly common. They'll have a chance of appearing anywhere where gems appear (like chests), and an additional chance in breakables. They'll drop in large stacks (note that they stack up to 1000), and hopefully a brisk trade will develop around them, as the Sorcerers and Wizards will want to collect them for turning into bigger shards for use with Trap the Soul.

It certainly shouldn't end up with hours of grinding to collect the fragments you need to bind your stuff.

Eladrin: Can you fix the typo when you successfully bind an item?

Uh, oops. I is good over grammar.

This all may be true, but it has nothing to do with the death penalty complaints. No one said " I hate having to remake up lost XP, could you change this and break my equipment while you are at it." The two issues are separate from each other. We all want to know why you combined them?!

If its for the reason I stated earlier then great I might not like it but you are being honest. I appreciate that. But we still have no real reason why. Please answer this.

Having no death penalty is a bad thing. There has to be something, and we considered various things that could be the "sting", and found that gold was probably one of the lighter costs that could be chosen. Everyone's got it, it's easy to acquire more, and there's literally a cost to dying.

With the old system, if you died, one of the best things you can do is log off. With the new system, if you die, you repair, and then go on a quest to make some more money. If you're dying a lot, then instead of playing on Elite, why not do a run or two on Normal...