Permanent Item Damage and Death Penalty changes

[lethal413]

sounds like good incentive to roll ranger

[moorewr]

Think im going to create a project landscape char!

and test eladrin statement

I will when I'm ready to try out Arcane Archer.

[gpk]

In Risia feedback, it would be a decent idea to state about how many times people find themselves dying per quest, as well as how much they're paying for their repairs. I have some data, but the more I have access to, the better.

Repair costs may very well need to drop further, and the more feedback I get from in-game, the more likely it is we'll end up adjusting things.

To be honest, I think the last couple of mods have demonstrated Risia is just a tool for the power gamers to get a head start on everyone when it comes to getting flagged and beating a raid. I personally don't place a helluva lotta faith in the ppl that visit Risia for an extended period of time. This will be doubly true if they are beign affected by item wear, why live server real item damage when you can run the simulation.
A good step would be to disable flagging for a raid, disable pre-raid and raid if you truly want more honest feedback, at least initially.

Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised if the type of people who play on Risia really don't represent the "average" player in the least and would provide "tainted" feedback or data.

That being said however, maybe it's a call to arms for the "average" players to mobilize and kick arse!

[Largo_Kyber]

And only up to a max of 10% of max durability in damage when you die, not 90%. Unless you are dying 9 times in a Quest....

What I was trying to say was that most of the damage my items take will be from deaths, which will cause me to lose the same % as if I had never taken the enhancement. So the only point in taking this line is to protect your unbound equipment through general use. General use damage is relatively rare especially if you repair after each quest. And considering that I can decide to make any item permanently damage proof, what is the point of negating 25, 50 or 75% wear?

[MysticTheurge]

Um just because you are the first to explore a quest does not mean you need to die. I have done numerous quests on opening day of a mod, or on risia, without dying at all. It just takes more caution.

Yes, this is quite true.

But the fact remains, on average, the first time anyone does a quest, they're more likely to die.

Notice, my proposed system wasn't something that just benefited people doing it the first week after release, anyone gets a cushion the first time they're doing the quest. Heck, in my VoN3 example, the quest had been out a few weeks before I managed to get into a group for it, but we still died all over the place.

[ArkoHighStar]

Enhancements can't help us to much when we are dead....

:P

And only up to a max of 10% of max durability in damage when you die, not 90%. Unless you are dying 9 times in a Quest....

items breaking are not going to come from just the death penalty, a weapon can easily go below 50% in one quest, especially where oozes and rust monsters are mixed in with regular mobs and you swing and hit one of those with your precious nice item. We will have to watch item wear much more now during new content or when trying out something risky. I guess I just don't want to spend so much time micro managing inventory and gear while playing. Once quests get familiar we will be dying less

[MysticTheurge]

A good step would be to disable flagging for a raid, disable pre-raid and raid if you truly want more honest feedback, at least initially.

I think they're aware of that. If you notice when Quarion announced Risia would be up this week during the Dev Chat he said something about only specific things going up (public areas and something else? New explorer zone?).

[Mad_Bombardier]

I'm curious what you think about my "Reduced or no item damage while getting your First Time bonus" idea. It would at least reduce/remove the item damage you'd take while trying to figure a quest out (as you continue to receive the bonus until the first time you successfully complete the quest).

Another good one by MT!

I like this suggestion!!!!

/seconded.

[GeneralDiomedes]

I'm curious what you think about my "Reduced or no item damage while getting your First Time bonus" idea. It would at least reduce/remove the item damage you'd take while trying to figure a quest out (as you continue to receive the bonus until the first time you successfully complete the quest).

Another good one by MT!

I like this suggestion!!!!

Actually I disagree with this now that I think about it.

For someone who goes to cap by doing each quest once on normal/hard/elite .. that means they would take no item damage the entire way.

That is not a good idea.

Maybe if there was some way to determine if this was the first time everyone in the group had done the quest for the first time, on any character.

[Mad_Bombardier]

So the item defense line of enhnacements is now pointless?

Well, I will be removing this enhancement as protecting against "general wear and tear" is not worth the cost. Especially since 90% of item wear will now occur on death and I now have a way to protect my gear from any damage whatsoever. If item defense figured into the % applied to item wear upon death it might still be useful.

That's rather nearsighted. You will now be dealing with item damage from "wear and tear" as well as death penalty (if you die a lot). If you value the enhancement now, you will surely value it MORE in the new system where you have 2 sources of item damage and the damage is unavoidable upon death.

[Cheg]

cant amount of the way to the cap without stepping into a single dungeon other than the two Old Sully's Grog quests, if you enjoy landscapes.

Someone mentioned that. Currently it is impossible to get the required level 7 to enter ataraxia's haven, with only the previous explorer areas.

Waterworks, level 1-4. Total Exp - 5,757.
Cerulean Hills, level 1-4, Total Exp - 8,319.
Searing Heights, level 2-7, Total Exp - 16,414.
Tangleroot Gorge, level 2-7, Total Exp - 24,583.

Total Exp: 55,073. Required for level 4: 50,000.

Sorrowdusk Isle, level 4-11, Total Exp - 34,192.

Total Exp: 89265. Required for level 7 and Ataraxia's Haven: 200,000

Total possible from all explorer's - 676,446. 1,050,000 to level 15. 64%.

[Dariun]

And only up to a max of 10% of max durability in damage when you die, not 90%. Unless you are dying 9 times in a Quest....

Which is the problem. Say what you like, there WILL be a significant number of times (considering number of quests done per day) that people who have equipment with 20-40% existing permanent damage will have it become worn or broken in the middle of the quest. Even if the stuff is bound (and thus repairable) it will be unusable for the rest of the quest.

It's not such a huge deal for weapons because most people carry several, but how many suits of armor do people have? how many shields? boots? gloves? trinkets? belts? What happens when a Greater False Life item becomes worn?

You may think "if you die 7 times in a quest, serves you right". And you are free to feel that.

But Turbine needs to be a little more careful. You can't design for the "average" with these types of things. You need a system that can handle the extremes, because the extremes are not going to be rare with this sample size. The actual number of times people have multiple deaths is much much more relevant that the % of times people have multiple deaths.

Quests go ugly. Multiple deaths happen. And it is not always "unjustifiable" or "using death as a tactic".

A game mechanic that makes people avoid or give up on playing the quest is bad, imo. That was part of the problem with XP debt ("don't want to play anymore tonight, I got -4000 XP already"), and it could be an even worse problem with the equipment damage ("no, not that quest -- I died 5 times last time and had to recall to repair").

Challenge is good. Frustration is bad. Admittedly, sometimes there is a very fine line there.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Actually I disagree with now that I think about it.

For someone who goes to cap by doing each quest on normal/hard/elite .. that means they would take no item damage.

That is not a good idea.

Good point. So, what about until they have a completion flag (any amount of favor) in their Adventure Compendium.

[MysticTheurge]

Actually I disagree with now that I think about it.

For someone who goes to cap by doing each quest once on normal/hard/elite .. that means they would take no item damage the entire way.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards "reduced damage" rather than "no damage."

It would still give you a cushion, but prevent the above from happening.

[ArkoHighStar]

I think they're aware of that. If you notice when Quarion announced Risia would be up this week during the Dev Chat he said something about only specific things going up (public areas and something else? New explorer zone?).

If I remember correctly for mod 4 the flagging quests and the pre raid and raid were closed for most of the time it was on Risia. It was really on mod 5 that saw the advent of the practice on Risia strategy, this was compounded by how long the mod was on Risia almost 2 months if I remember correctly. Al thhe other mods were for much shorter durations like 2 weeks

[GeneralDiomedes]

Good point. So, what about until they have a completion flag (any amount of favor) in their Adventure Compendium.

I dunno .. I think a sliding scale from elite to normal would suffice. People are making out this trailblazing stuff to be more traumatic than it really is. 'dying all over the place' isn't really that bad when everyone realizes it's a new quest

Or maybe they could determine if its your first time, account wide.

[kruggar]

It Easy to solve..

First Normal - no dmg
First Hard - 75% reduced dmg
First hard - 50% reduced dmg

or somthing like that

[Hendrik]

I'm going to kind of argue with that logic.

There's nothing to suggest that enhancements can't help us while we're dead.

Further there's nothing to indicate that the item damage happens while you're dead, instead of at the time you die (when your enhancements would still be active) or when you're raised (when your enhancements would be active again).

It's perfectly reasonable for Item Defense to apply against Death Damage, if you want it to. Sure you can make up reasons why it shouldn't, but you can just as easily make up reasons that it should (especially given the tenuous, some might say non-existant, nature of the "reason" for item damage on Death in the first place).

Not arguing MT, just the other side of the coin I have not looked at. TYVM.




Why discussion is good - can see things you might not have otherwise.

I just have a little fear about the floodgates we may open if Enhancements worked while dead.

[kruggar]

and well u can always go to the quest with an exploration/binded set of equipment

[MysticTheurge]

It Easy to solve..

First Normal - no dmg
First Hard - 75% reduced dmg
First hard - 50% reduced dmg

or somthing like that

That's a nice idea.