a new direction

[Aeneas]

Well, i've tried all of the other classes now. After rolling a rogue as my original, i have come to the conclusion that they are still my favorite ,however gimped they may be. So I am contemplating another one - which brings me to the subject of this post. I want to build something very different and if anyone has ideas, i'm open to suggestions.

I should note that i'd like to try and combine major aspects of my previous 3 (pure rogue, rogue twf with 1 fighter splash, and intimitank rogue with 2 levels of pally, 2 levels of fighter).

I believe human will be my race of choice, so get your gears turning people, i want ideas!

[Hvymetal]

So you want an intimidating Rogue that uses two weapons?

Hardest thing to overcome then is loss of AC for a shield.... hmmm have to think on it.

[CSFurious]

for the hitpoints

i tried every race for rogue with builds

my 32-point dwarf rogue/fighter has 170 hp's at level 9 & is quite durable as a twf

[cforce]

This is an interesting set of requirements -- TWF, and also intimitank? Hm!

Well, going TWF, you're not going to be able to really get tankish AC, I don't think. Even a high-dex dwarven build with Mithral FP:

10 base
13 armor
7 dex (assumes dwarven armor mastery and 1 level of fighter armor mastery)
5 CE
5 protection item
3 barkskin potion
2 chaosguardes
1 dodge feat
1 two-weapon defense feat
-----
47 AC (maybe goes to 50 if you pull a chittering ring)

Which isn't *bad* for a TWF, *but* is probably not something where you'd want to go around intimidating in high-end content and getting 4 or 5 guys swinging at you at once.

Which means I think the route I'd consider would include high DR and use of fearsome armor. Maybe go Warforged, Fighter/Rogue split, with base feats in Adamantine Body, and Imp DR x4, and extra Fighter feats being used for the TWF line? This would give you DR 9 and Fearsome, enough to maybe hit intimidate and weather a few hits from each enemy before they get feared and stop attacking you?

I think that's probably a long-shot to actually work out in practice, but it's the best I can think of to be comfortable hitting Intimidate without 55-60 AC in level 14 quests.

[Impaqt]

You seem to have forgotten about the ROgue part of the build cforce.....

Gotta stay Light armor for Evasion...

I think a 5Rogue/4Fighter/7Ranger could get very interesting. Dwarf of course with Tempest Enhancement.

[legonares]

I my self... would stay *** a halfling. Why? Dex.

As a pure rouge you can spend all the skill points you want but still have evasion and high ac with the correct gear.plus you'll be able to have a very high umd and still backstab people

[Aeneas]

starting stats and such for your consideration

str 15
dex 15
con14
int 14
wis 10
cha 10

Have a +1 tome for every stat ready to go. +2 from favor will go to dex to get GTWF unlocked.

Currently planned split is for 9 rogue/6 ranger/1 fighter (after next mod of course). Level 18 increase (if the game makes it that far )will nab me 1 more rogue levels for improved evasion and another fighter level for the free feat.

Bluff, intimidate, diplo, haggle and rogue skills, umd all maxed. Hide, search, move silently when taking ranger levels. intimidate on fighter levels. TWF and ITWF are free, 1 feats from fighter levels for GTWF. Remaining 7 feats (including level 15 feat) will be for toughness, dodge, mobility, spring attack, two weapon defense, Combat expertise, and imp crit slashing or piercing.

Currently have 12 shield charges i can use at level 1 and by level 7 or so i can reliably buff myself when necessary with a wand or scroll (should be around 19 umd with a cartouche, 23 with human versatility.) I have a chaosguarde waiting, as well as some +5 mith bp until the kds comes along.

10 base
8 dex bonus with daggertooth
9 +5 mith bp
4 shield clicky
3 twf defense/tempest enh.
5 protection item/SoF
5 CE
1 dodge
2 chaosguarde
3 bark pot
---
49 AC before buffs

2 bark
1 haste
2 recitation
4 pally
5 HV boost
4 Imp. uncanny dodge
1 parrying weapon
-----
68 in a perfect world and for a very short period of time

2 points of favored enemy defense for 70 against undead and giants.

I realize that no single idea in this build is original, but the idea was really more to try and create a build for myself that can do all of the things i want fairly well, and i feel this accomplishes that.

And for those who haven't read it, the tempest ranger enhancement will grant extra AC while TWFing so with the two weapon defense feat, it will be like i'm wearing a +5 shield with just a shield clicky active. At 14 i can wand whip level 10 shield wands with a 70% or so success rate for a 10 minute shield.

yes saves will hurt a little in comparison to a batman or full pally or whatever, but you really can't have every single thing. I can't throw fireballs either, but i think it'll be ok.



ready, set, go find the holes peeps!

[Fennario]

May also want to consider Way of the Acrobat for the extra uses of uncanny. May or may not be worth the APs, but uncanny will save your butt at times.

[Aeneas]

I did consider WotA as well as WotM, but i don't know if i want to try and squeeze their prereqs in among my enhancements.

[Hvymetal]

Aye, you may do best trying to squeeze Tempest in there along w/ TW Blocking & Dodge (which I believe is a Tempest requirement anyways). Maybe if you could also fit in CE? & Ideally 1 level of wiz or sorc to self cast shield, but don;t know if it's feasable to squeeze all of that in.

And if you squeeze in Wiz or Sorc forget human WF all the way!!!!!

[Aeneas]

considering my UMD will be around 30, taking sorc or wiz just for a shield spell would be wasteful methinks.

*level 3 emerald claw necklace will be included in equips at almost all times for fearsome and intimidate bonus.

[Hvymetal]

considering my UMD will be around 30, taking sorc or wiz just for a shield spell would be wasteful methinks.

*level 3 emerald claw necklace will be included in equips at almost all times for fearsome and intimidate bonus.

True, and 1 level of sorc, or wiz = same duration as clicky, I just hate 1 min of shield personally.

[sigtrent]

How about the worlds most irritating intimi tank!!!

Rogue/Barbarian/Ranger

You crank up that intimidate and then run around really super fast kiting the mobs in a circle

No need for good ac. The down side is its hard for anyone to kill them aside from blade barrier or firewall etc.

[Hvymetal]

How about the worlds most irritating intimi tank!!!

Rogue/Barbarian/Ranger

You crank up that intimidate and then run around really super fast kiting the mobs in a circle

No need for good ac. The down side is its hard for anyone to kill them aside from blade barrier or firewall etc.

LOL the only problem is you have to make your voice sound like an 8-year old when you play him.....

[Aeneas]

I really loathe kiting

[Hvymetal]

I really loathe kiting

I think that's the point, most people do. It would be one ultra-annoying build though, just think of the enjoyment factor

[Talon_Moonshadow]

You want something different?!
A rogue that cannot disable traps......
Use all your great points for something else and free your self from using resources to be a trap monkey.

I've thought about a maxed Cha rogue....highest UMD I can get....and using other Cha stats. Intimidate, Diplomacy, Haggle...

An all dex TWF is an ovious choice. Max out that neak attack and get puncturing rapiers....or something similar.

Max out tumbling and actually try to find creative ways to use is.

I don't see the point of high strength or HP rogues.....

A rogues strengths are his skill points, evasion, and sneak attacks.
He should use light armor or no armor.....so he should have a high dex.
I believe the way to max our sneak attack damage is to max the number of crits you can do......so shoose weapons and feats to get the most crits.
Many special purpose weapons depend on crits, so try to aquire them to maximise this strength.

The rest is choose some skills to max out and put into heavy use......

I think that's all you can do with a pure rogue.....you can multi class with a lot of different classes, but then i would argue you are no longer a rogue after a certain point.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Adding to my earlier post:

A non trap skilled rogue:
Drow
High Dex
High Cha

Max out skills:
1. Balance
2. Bluff
3. Jump
4. Spot
5. Swim
6. Tumble
7. UMD

room for 1 more plus Int bonuses.
Diplomacy
Haggle
Intimidate
Hide
Move Silently

all good choices.

Take TWF, weapon finesse....
Consider all the TWF feats + dodge, mobility,
Definately Improved crit....probably in piercing weapons.

Take all those great rogue enhancements that add to combat and have nothing to do with disabling traps!
consider enhancements that add to surviving traps...especially to the saves.

Be a true swachbuckling fighter who can swim through that crucible area with ease....as well as jump over any distance, and has no fear of knockdowns and trips.....or even falls in the reaver raid.

Add ranged feats if you can find the room for them......use those awesome shortbows that the rangers throw away.

[Aeneas]

With a 14 int on a human character you can max most charisma based skills and rogue skills so long as you don't mind sacrificing hide and move silently (like they get used much after level 2).

Human +1 at each level, +4 at creation.
14 int = 40 points at creation for rogue.
1 rogue at creation = 44
7 levels of rogue = 77 points
6 levels of ranger = 45 points
----------
166 skill points

The following is a list of skills that will be maxed at 16
Bluff 17
Diplomacy 17
Intimidate 17
Open Lock 17
Disable Device 17
Search 17
Use magic device 17
---------
129

considerable points to
Haggle 10 (really i have a bard for crazy haggling, no need to go nuts here)
Spot 15 (mostly for monsters, i know where the traps are for the most part )
-------
25

with minor points in
balance 2 (mainly so i can be over 5 in TF)
tumble 5 (for small drops with no ff on)
Move silently 5 (because hide can be bolstered by invisibility clicky)
-----------
12

166 total skill points


Cha modifier will be +3 with items, less than stellar, but the price you pay for strength and hp's.

[Aeneas]

You want something different?!
A rogue that cannot disable traps......
Use all your great points for something else and free your self from using resources to be a trap monkey.

I've thought about a maxed Cha rogue....highest UMD I can get....and using other Cha stats. Intimidate, Diplomacy, Haggle...

An all dex TWF is an ovious choice. Max out that neak attack and get puncturing rapiers....or something similar.

Max out tumbling and actually try to find creative ways to use is.

I don't see the point of high strength or HP rogues.....

A rogues strengths are his skill points, evasion, and sneak attacks.
He should use light armor or no armor.....so he should have a high dex.
I believe the way to max our sneak attack damage is to max the number of crits you can do......so shoose weapons and feats to get the most crits.
Many special purpose weapons depend on crits, so try to aquire them to maximise this strength.

The rest is choose some skills to max out and put into heavy use......

I think that's all you can do with a pure rogue.....you can multi class with a lot of different classes, but then i would argue you are no longer a rogue after a certain point.

Lol, i've actually done this before, but killed the character around level 4 because i've never seen a group get so angry that the rogue they picked up couldn't disable the fire trap in STK.