Took 2 levels of Rogue

[SanePsycho]

Actually you're both right, I just don't think you see what the other is saying. BAB IS 3/4 of level, rounded down, BUT is calculated separately for each class in a multi-class character, then added together.
So a 2/1 Bard/Rogue gets:
Bard BAB : 2 * 0.75 rounded down = 1
Rogue BAB : 1 * 0.75 rounded down = 0
1 + 0 = 1

[mrvain]

I did see that what we were saying amount to the same thing, I think I was just being a pain in a$$ ;-)

I spend most of my time playing off peak and therefore spend most of my time duoing quest with a mate. Net result is that I play alot of multiclass characters, which leads to knowing the tables pretty well.

[GuitarHero]

you do not see rogues playing lutes, do you?

if only, my friend, if only....

my PnP shadowdancer was an excellent rogue, because he swore up and down he was a bard, everyone believed he was a bard, and never suspected that he was anything other than a bard, except when he was coming out of the shadows to deliver a sneak attack!!!

[CSFurious]

but i like 6d6 for my sneak attack vs. 1d6

anyway, some tanks hate rogues because they like to look at the killcounts & get ****ed when the rogue has as many or more kills

a drow who is a bard/rogue is a possible build

my point is that it is an unnecessary build as IMO every party should have a bard & a rogue in it, along with a barbarian or pallie, sor & a cleric

but, if it makes you play the game, then i am for it

i never thought i would play a warchanter, but i am doing so now

peace

if only, my friend, if only....

my PnP shadowdancer was an excellent rogue, because he swore up and down he was a bard, everyone believed he was a bard, and never suspected that he was anything other than a bard, except when he was coming out of the shadows to deliver a sneak attack!!!

[twix]

but i like 6d6 for my sneak attack vs. 1d6

anyway, some tanks hate rogues because they like to look at the killcounts & get ****ed when the rogue has as many or more kills

a drow who is a bard/rogue is a possible build

my point is that it is an unnecessary build as IMO every party should have a bard & a rogue in it, along with a barbarian or pallie, sor & a cleric

but, if it makes you play the game, then i am for it

i never thought i would play a warchanter, but i am doing so now

peace

IMO no particular class is needed for a good party but a bard and rogue are defintly secondary.These are back up toons not main front liners.Which is fine but deffintly nota mandatory to an experienced party.Dont get me wrong both are nice but will i not run a party because i dont have a bard or a rogue ?lol .No think ill go ahead and start.As for backstab rofl Nice damage there rogue.Why are you dead in two hits though?Hmmm.And for kill count a smart rogue wont do anything except follow the main tank wait til somethings almost dead then go in for the kill.Thats why kil count doesnt mean jack.If they had a damage count then wed be in businessAny other way and they are probbly going to be dead before the enemie ever will be.While the bard/rogue is disarming 9 times outta ten the whole party already ran through the trap and completed the quest.Unless these are possible dungeon crawrlers havent met any but im sure they are around.Anyways ive been drinking time for sleep

[CSFurious]

that is why my rogue is dwarf & will have 4 levels of fighter at current level cap

he has 170 hitpoints at level 9 & is wearing absolutely nothing uber right now

dual-wielding a wounding dwarven axe of pure good & a flaming burst light pick of maiming, the extra sneak-attack dice helps me take down the bad guys faster

other races as rogues are squishy, that is why dwarf is the way to go

i also would not wait around for a bard or a rogue to start my party & most of the server just runs thru the traps, but there are still dungeon crawlers playing the game, but i do not think you roll with any

peace

IMO no particular class is needed for a good party but a bard and rogue are defintly secondary.These are back up toons not main front liners.Which is fine but deffintly nota mandatory to an experienced party.Dont get me wrong both are nice but will i not run a party because i dont have a bard or a rogue ?lol .No think ill go ahead and start.As for backstab rofl Nice damage there rogue.Why are you dead in two hits though?Hmmm.And for kill count a smart rogue wont do anything except follow the main tank wait til somethings almost dead then go in for the kill.Thats why kil count doesnt mean jack.If they had a damage count then wed be in businessAny other way and they are probbly going to be dead before the enemie ever will be.While the bard/rogue is disarming 9 times outta ten the whole party already ran through the trap and completed the quest.Unless these are possible dungeon crawrlers havent met any but im sure they are around.Anyways ive been drinking time for sleep

[mrvain]

IMO no particular class is needed for a good party but a bard and rogue are defintly secondary.These are back up toons not main front liners.Which is fine but deffintly nota mandatory to an experienced party.Dont get me wrong both are nice but will i not run a party because i dont have a bard or a rogue ?lol .No think ill go ahead and start.As for backstab rofl Nice damage there rogue.Why are you dead in two hits though?Hmmm.And for kill count a smart rogue wont do anything except follow the main tank wait til somethings almost dead then go in for the kill.Thats why kil count doesnt mean jack.If they had a damage count then wed be in businessAny other way and they are probbly going to be dead before the enemie ever will be.While the bard/rogue is disarming 9 times outta ten the whole party already ran through the trap and completed the quest.Unless these are possible dungeon crawrlers havent met any but im sure they are around.Anyways ive been drinking time for sleep

I tend to agree with all of this, especially the bit about the damage counter vs the kill counter (**** low level casters and there last minute magic missiles ;-) I have run with clericless groups, even in high level quests, and it has worked out.


I am too lazy to look it up but aren't the developers are going to significantly increase the damage that traps do (I think it is in Mod 6). Whether it will be enough to stop parties running thru trap or not I don't know, but I suspect that is the intended effect.

[Saaluta]

Sorry guys, but I have to jump in on this discussion. I have a 12/2 bard/rogue, I did wait til I had a +6 dex, int, and cha items before I made her. At first I was just making her to be a umd/haggler, but she has become so much more as many people on Khyber can tell you. She is a drow, with max cha, and I believe I started her with 14 int and 16 dex. Didn't put much into str or wis(I think 10 on both) and put remainder into con. So she is not much of a fighter. But with a few good rapiers(smiting/banishing), fascinate, do no initial damage so they stay fascinated until you smite/banish them I bought a few things off the AH and found a few more, so she now has +15 spot/search/dd/ol items...and with her umd can raise people with no failure and use heal scrolls on a roll of 4. So I don't mind having to be a healer with her. She also has fairly good buffs and over 700 sp with a magi item. She can also unlock almost every chest in game and disable most traps...when she can find them lol(only 48 search buffed--sadly until level cap raise)

I started her out as rogue for the extra skill points, and maxed umd/haggle(remember originally meant to be haggler)/ol/and dd, put a few into jump and search. Then I went straight bard putting points into haggle/umd/ol/dd/search until level 14 when I gave her the 2nd level of rogue, maxed her umd/haggle again and got evasion. Traded well for a +5 MBP, then pulled a BP of Vol which she has been wearing ever since.

IMO, this is the best way to make the barogue build, but again that is just my opinion

Hope everything turns out well for you, and if yours isn't turning out so well, just practice until you get what you want.

Saaluta

[Lillitheris]

Sorry guys, but I have to jump in on this discussion. I have a 12/2 bard/rogue, I did wait til I had a +6 dex, int, and cha items before I made her. At first I was just making her to be a umd/haggler, but she has become so much more as many people on Khyber can tell you. She is a drow, with max cha, and I believe I started her with 14 int and 16 dex. Didn't put much into str or wis(I think 10 on both) and put remainder into con. So she is not much of a fighter. But with a few good rapiers(smiting/banishing), fascinate, do no initial damage so they stay fascinated until you smite/banish them I bought a few things off the AH and found a few more, so she now has +15 spot/search/dd/ol items...and with her umd can raise people with no failure and use heal scrolls on a roll of 4. So I don't mind having to be a healer with her. She also has fairly good buffs and over 700 sp with a magi item. She can also unlock almost every chest in game and disable most traps...when she can find them lol(only 48 search buffed--sadly until level cap raise)

I started her out as rogue for the extra skill points, and maxed umd/haggle(remember originally meant to be haggler)/ol/and dd, put a few into jump and search. Then I went straight bard putting points into haggle/umd/ol/dd/search until level 14 when I gave her the 2nd level of rogue, maxed her umd/haggle again and got evasion. Traded well for a +5 MBP, then pulled a BP of Vol which she has been wearing ever since.

IMO, this is the best way to make the barogue build, but again that is just my opinion

Hope everything turns out well for you, and if yours isn't turning out so well, just practice until you get what you want.

Saaluta

That's pretty much how I'm gonna build my Bard/Rogue. At the moment she is Bard5/Rogue1, and I'm yet to fail a trap.

[Master_of_None]

I'm thinking about building a 12/2 split myself, and I can't see how to fit in effective fighting and casting along with rogue abilities. I'm inclined to focus more on the casting side, but what do bards like that do in undead quests when cc doesn't work? Just buff and heal?

[Saaluta]

I'm thinking about building a 12/2 split myself, and I can't see how to fit in effective fighting and casting along with rogue abilities. I'm inclined to focus more on the casting side, but what do bards like that do in undead quests when cc doesn't work? Just buff and heal?

Get a cheap disruptor Depending on what kind you need, can usually get one cheap on AH for around 20-50k pp. And of course, many people have them for trade as well. The most useful songs I have are Fascinate and music of the makers...you can change makers for the undead music, but I find that swinging a disruptor with GH on is much more effective

Saal

Oh, and good scrolls to carry are find trap and recitation... These can make a difference when trying to find those 50+ traps

[Lillitheris]

I'm thinking about building a 12/2 split myself, and I can't see how to fit in effective fighting and casting along with rogue abilities. I'm inclined to focus more on the casting side, but what do bards like that do in undead quests when cc doesn't work? Just buff and heal?

I chose fighting over casting. Weapon Finesse + High Dex. Damage doesn't matter when I use stat-damagers (aside from creatures with DR) and Smiters/Vorpals/Disruptors. My Cha is pretty low, because buffs don't need a higher DC

[Blind_Skwerl]

I'm thinking about building a 12/2 split myself, and I can't see how to fit in effective fighting and casting along with rogue abilities. I'm inclined to focus more on the casting side, but what do bards like that do in undead quests when cc doesn't work? Just buff and heal?

bow/x-bow/repeating x-bow of disruption.

[skraus1]

Rogue/Bards are great combinations, with extra utility and evasion working well in bard builds. I stopped playing my rogue because of this. If you don't think they can fight, please look at my Zhaffy build. I outkill all but the pure dps builds, frequently with greater survivability....and I can do traps.