Rage will save bonus?

[HumanRogue]

Does the will save bonus when doing a barbarian rage (I think its a morale bonus) stack with the saves from greater heroism (I know this is a morale bonus)? If they're the same bonus, they shouldn't stack, but I wanted to check before I started with a build I'd designed. Thanks!

-HumanRogue

[KaKa]

Yes it does stack. And when you get indomitable will to further increase the will save, thats stacks too. While raging I have around a 27 will save on my barbarian.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Yet another awesome ability for Barbarians that is oft overlooked. And it's not anything that any other class can currently reproduce aside from being a Cleric or Paladin.

[Mhykke]

Yes it does stack. And when you get indomitable will to further increase the will save, thats stacks too. While raging I have around a 27 will save on my barbarian.

Now I have a question on this stacking....It's probably just me being bleary eyed from studying law school finals, so can't really think right now.....but anyway:

3 from greater rage, 4 from indomitable will, total increase to will save of 7 (assuming no enhancements taken). I just checked, when I hit rage, my will save increases by 7 due to these 2. I dismiss my rage, give myself greater hero, and rage again. My will save didn't go up by 11, still up by 7. What am I looking at incorrectly?

[Mad_Bombardier]

Now I have a question on this stacking....It's probably just me being bleary eyed from studying law school finals, so can't really think right now.....but anyway:

3 from greater rage, 4 from indomitable will, total increase to will save of 7 (assuming no enhancements taken). I just checked, when I hit rage, my will save increases by 7 due to these 2. I dismiss my rage, give myself greater hero, and rage again. My will save didn't go up by 11, still up by 7. What am I looking at incorrectly?

Both could be a Morale bonus to Will Saves, so only the highest of the two applies? I'll have to check in game.

Update: Yup, the Compendium lists Rage and Greater Rage as Morale bonus to Will saves. But, the description for Indomitable Will reads, "This bonus stacks with all other modifiers, [including the morale bonus on Will saves he also receives during his rage.]" (bracketed portion from PnP). So, you should be getting the higher +4 from Greater Heroism with Indomitable Will adding another +4 stacked on top for a total of +8?

[Mhykke]

Both could be a Morale bonus to Will Saves, so only the highest of the two applies? I'll have to check in game.

Update: Yup, the Compendium lists Rage and Greater Rage as Morale bonus to Will saves. But, the description for Indomitable Will reads, "This bonus stacks with all other modifiers, [including the morale bonus on Will saves he also receives during his rage.]" (bracketed portion from PnP). So, you should be getting the higher +4 from Greater Heroism with Indomitable Will adding another +4 stacked on top for a total of +8?

Nope. Not getting a higher will save w/ greater hero and rage going as opposed to just rage. I'll have to go back in and play around w/ this for a little while when I get a chance...

[Mad_Bombardier]

Nope. Not getting a higher will save w/ greater hero and rage going as opposed to just rage. I'll have to go back in and play around w/ this for a little while when I get a chance...

Yeah, the last part was a question. I wasn't sure if you should be able to add Indomitable to Greater Heroism, but the description could be read to that effect.

The game is probably processing it like this: Indomitable Will only works when raging, so it's adding +3 Greater Rage and +4 Indomitable Will = +7 > +4 Greater Heroism. And of course, with a single AP spent on Barb WillpowerI, the morale bonus from raging equals the morale bonus from Greater Heroism. So, it's moot at that point. But, clarification for normal Rage and Greater Rage would be greatly appreciated. I suppose a bug report is in order.

[mgoldb2]

I suppose a bug report is in order.

I would not recommend it unless you want your will save to go down :P Hint intolable will not suppose to add to your will save at all and what it is suppose to add to is working correctly. Been like that since mod 3 first came out I surprise it took this long for anyone to notice. I never saw a reason to complain.

[Mad_Bombardier]

I would not recommend it unless you want your will save to go down :P Hint intolable will not suppose to add to your will save at all and what it is suppose to add to is working correctly. Been like that since mod 3 first came out I surprise it took this long for anyone to notice. I never saw a reason to complain.

mgoldb2, I'm not sure what you are trying to say. As it is supposed to, Intolerable Will does add to your Will save for Enchantment saves. I suppose there may be a few non-Enchantment will saves that it also works against (Inflict xx Wounds comes to mind), but I have not tested to be sure. But, those should absolutely be bug reported. I'd rather have a working game than a broken one.

[mgoldb2]

mgoldb2, I'm not sure what you are trying to say. As it is supposed to, Intolerable Will does add to your Will save for Enchantment saves. I suppose there may be a few non-Enchantment will saves that it also works against (Inflict xx Wounds comes to mind), but I have not tested to be sure. But, those should absolutely be bug reported. I'd rather have a working game than a broken one.

Am saying enchantment bonuses never show up on stat sheet and you are getting the enchantment bonus. In effect currently rage giving a +7 moral bonus to will save (with no enhancements) AND a +4 enchantment bonus. I figure it would be fixed a long time ago acturally am quite surprise this never came up before now. It been like that since the day Intolerable Will came out.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Am saying enchantment bonuses never show up on stat sheet and you are getting the enchantment bonus. In effect currently rage giving a +7 moral bonus to will save (with no enhancements) AND a +4 enchantment bonus. I figure it would be fixed a long time ago acturally am quite surprise this never came up before now. It been like that since the day Intolerable Will came out.

Now, that is something to test, confirm, and bug report. Thank you mgoldb2.

[Shade]

heh it's called indomitable will..

And I tested it a while back when we first got it.. and found rage bonus, will rage enhancement, and indomitable will all worked correctly.

They do not show up on the character sheet tho, you have to check your rolls against the correct spells.

Only bug/weird thing I found is bestow curse bypasses not only indomitable will, but will rage as well. Or just provides a -4 to saves for everyone. That and curse spewer weapons show a different save then the actual spell.. Tho that could be explained by dwarven spell resistance.

[Ghoste]

Something easy to overlook when calculating will bonuses that stack are those that only apply to enchantments. Those bonuses will not appear on your character sheet.

For example, a warforged pally or cleric gets +10 to saves vs enchantments when in bladesworn transformation. You wont see that bonus anywhere on your character sheet, but as a profane bonus it does stack.