WF Toughness - please?

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

I have known some big, strong, solidly built guys who couldn't take a punch...
And some skinny guys who are real scrappers...
I think toughness should be an individual trait, not one based on class or race...
Just as it is not based on sex.

Maybe that drow with the toughness feat is the toughest drow out there.
Maybe he can take a hit just as well as anyone else.

And yeah...Warforged get CON enhancements, why not toughness?
That always made little sense to me.

[MysticTheurge]

WF's are built, not grown, aren't they?

No, not exactly. The details of the inner-workings of a Creation Forge are largely a mystery to modern Artificers.

There is ZERO presidecne for the Toughness Enahncement giving more than 3 Hit Points at Level one and 1 additional hit point per level.

Aside from DDO, there's not even a precedent for Toughness granting 3 hit points at level one and 1 additional hit point per level.

The only two toughness-like enhancements in D&D offer either a) 3 hit points when taken OR b) 1 extra hit point per level.

[oronisi]

There are Plenty of casters who dont have 10 extra action points to spend on the Toughness Enhancment... Mostof them in fact.. It woul dmake for some pretty interesting builds though.

Agreed I was exaggerating a little....but one feat and 6AP for 47hp? 6AP might be doable....how about 32hp for one feat and 3AP? Now you can't tell me you couldn't squeeze in one feat and 3 AP for what could easily be a 20% hp increase, and we know HP are important for casters since they don't have native access to a wealth of HP, AC, DR, or healing.

The real point is that everyone will get the toughness feat. I know I will try really really hard to squeeze that feat in on all my characters if they make the enhancement line available to all. In addition, when the level cap goes up, if they don't also scale up the current enhancement lines (which they might not to avoid getting super sick numbers everywhere), then you'll have 8AP sitting on all your characters soon.

[MysticTheurge]

The real point is that everyone will get the toughness feat.

Most people wouldn't bother if they put toughness enhancements back the way they were.

[Impaqt]

Agreed I was exaggerating a little....but one feat and 6AP for 47hp? 6AP might be doable....how about 32hp for one feat and 3AP? Now you can't tell me you couldn't squeeze in one feat and 3 AP for what could easily be a 20% hp increase, and we know HP are important for casters since they don't have native access to a wealth of HP, AC, DR, or healing.

The real point is that everyone will get the toughness feat. I know I will try really really hard to squeeze that feat in on all my characters if they make the enhancement line available to all. In addition, when the level cap goes up, if they don't also scale up the current enhancement lines (which they might not to avoid getting super sick numbers everywhere), then you'll have 8AP sitting on all your characters soon.

DO you play a caster?

3 Action points can be some serious enhancments..... Not to mention losing a feat on a feat starved class (SOrc especially)

It opens up an additional build style.. absolutely.. But I already know many sorcs that are running around with 250+ Hit points..... Do you realy think they would scap their damage for 50 or so more?

a Feat + Enhancments is a serious investment..... Not something I would assume "Everyone" would take.

[unionyes]

Constructed of Livewood......

I have a Tree in my front yard.... Sycamore I think..... Over the past 10 years or so, its gotten significantly larger and I assume tougher(I've never challened it to a fight) without working out at all....

Thats true, and makes sense. And magical wood can pretty much do anything we want it to. Plus, just imagine the names of the various 'Strong Wood' enhancements

[Shade]

There are Plenty of casters who dont have 10 extra action points to spend on the Toughness Enhancment... Mostof them in fact.. It woul dmake for some pretty horrible builds though.

Fixed.

Turbine is just helping you to not seriously gimp your character.
If you think 5HP for 1AP is a good deal - your out of your mind and have no idea how to build an effective character.

PnP characters get by fine with there base D4 hitdice sorcerers, which can mean like maybe 28 base hitponts for a lvl14 sorcerer. In ddo you can get over 220 + temp hp on a freakin elf sorcerer with no toughness. If you really want some crazy hp just go WF and pick up the con enhancement, that will get you an easy 270+ hp. If you need more then that, your playing the game wrong.

[SteeleTrueheart]

No, not exactly. The details of the inner-workings of a Creation Forge are largely a mystery to modern Artificers.

Aside from DDO, there's not even a precedent for Toughness granting 3 hit points at level one and 1 additional hit point per level.

The only two toughness-like enhancements in D&D offer either a) 3 hit points when taken OR b) 1 extra hit point per level.

I thought one of the splashbooks had some feats Dwarven Toghness and Draconic toughness (or something like that) giving +15-30hp. I think it was the 3.0 version masters of the wild or the fighter book, the name escapes me.

[Ithrani]

Mad said it right. If it requires a feat, anyone should have access to the enhancements for it. I have toughness on my rogue, why shouldn't i be allowed to enhance it further? If you prick me, do i not bleed? If you smash me with a 200 pound greatsword, do i not fly across the room, smash into the wall, slide down and crawl into the corner, crying like a child?

Truly hysterical

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Fixed.

Turbine is just helping you to not seriously gimp your character.
If you think 5HP for 1AP is a good deal - your out of your mind and have no idea how to build an effective character.

PnP characters get by fine with there base D4 hitdice sorcerers, which can mean like maybe 28 base hitponts for a lvl14 sorcerer. In ddo you can get over 220 + temp hp on a freakin elf sorcerer with no toughness. If you really want some crazy hp just go WF and pick up the con enhancement, that will get you an easy 270+ hp. If you need more then that, your playing the game wrong.

PnP does not have the bulked up damage & HP accross the board that we do. The two are simply not comparable on hitpoints. Also the turn based game makes it a bit easier for the PnP squishies to stay out of the melee fight much of the time.

[MysticTheurge]

I thought one of the splashbooks had some feats Dwarven Toghness and Draconic toughness (or something like that) giving +15-30hp. I think it was the 3.0 version masters of the wild or the fighter book, the name escapes me.

Neither one of those feats is actually better than Improved Toughness (1 hp per level). Dragon's toughness requires base fort +11 and grants 12 hit points. Dwarf's Toughness requires base fort +5 and grants 6 hit points.

There's also a feat from Races of the Dragon called Draconic Toughness which grants 2 hit points per Draconic feat you have. I had forgotten about this particular type of toughness-like enhancement. There are a few others in this vein, like Psionic Body (2 hit points per psionic feat) and Durable Form (2 hit points per aberrant feat). But even then you're still not going to, in most cases, get more HPs than you would with Improved Toughness.