Please help me figure out if I should be a bard.

[Jaysun]

Have to give you some background about my life in DDO.

Im so confused! In this game...in general. I have a Happiness problem in this game. I have 3 14 clerics...a 14 fighter and a 13 rogue. Out of all of them I only like 1 of them. My cleric, and to be honest if i had to do it again I would take off that 1 pally. He is to geared now and to much work to do that. My other 2 clerics was a 28 point build and a drow i just jacked up. *points into heal* that kinda stuff. My fighter I lived in 5 days Rl time to 14. When i got to 14 I just hated him. I don't know why it took me to 14 to dislike him. He is TWF and well..I didn't know that barbs are the king of TWF...I never looked into them and when I found that out...my drive to play him faded. Thats just kinda the person I am sadly. I've remade characters way to much. Wasted to much money in tomes and newbie gear...its getting out of hand. My rogue is pure and I love the trap/search/open lock portion of a rogue but hate getting destroyed *when i made him a long time ago...dex and int was the way to go..and he started with 10 con* I know you can get your ac decent and what not..but even sword and board..I feel useless meleeing with him becuase he gets put down fast and hard.

Now with all that said. I have only truely stuck with 1 character and thats my cleric. I always come back to him. My cleric when i made him the final time..i took the pally becuase I felt i could heal and melee a little. Well..thats changed..I dont melee at all...even thou on him I can. I just dont thou..love healing and controlling and destruction. I honestly know just think i hate melee. Everytime I try it I end up quiting or just forgetting my character can do it.

My problem. I raid everyday...way to much. My guild is relentless in raiding and my wife along with them heh. They have 4-8 characters apiece..and theres only 7 of us. I am the only one with 1 character. In every other MMO i've always enjoyed having one character and always playing him and only him. Made it better for me. This game just inst built that way. I can either make another character or just do something with my guild every 3 days. I NEED another character. I know i could log on the ones i have...but I just dread it when I do that. Not how i wanna play.

So i've been thinking about bard lately. I never thought i could play one becuase I am the type that doesnt like hybrids. Not being the best at something always makes me think i'm never good enough. One reason I am thinking of it is due to the healing. I can't stand not being able to heal myself. 90% percent of the reasons I always give up or restart characters is becuase some horrible cleric/healer in a PUG just doesn't do there job and we die becuase they rather run in with a sword then heal the 3 other tanks we have to do that job. SO i always revert back to my cleric becuase atleast I know my group will be safe. But in general a bard has everything I like in this game. Healing/Control spells/Buffs. Im not a huge fan of damage spells except finger of death type. i honestly rather look at the parties health and target players then have to chase around mobs all mission long.

So my plan

I am either going to make a drow pure bard...probably 20 cha 14 con and rest into dex and make a pure group supporting bard and controller or

remake another cleric lol. And run 2 clerics all the time with my guild. 1 huge problem with this thou. Its the samething all over again. Same gear..same job...(which I love)..and same experiences. Which leads me to believe that I will probably quit this game much easier if I don't find something that changes things up for me. But I fear that I will make a bard..level him up and give it up again and be back at this spot. I wish you guys could understand how many times I've grinded on chars. I probably if had the slots and could combine levels...would have over 25 characters level 14 by now if I never quit them. (sad..sad).

SO if someone could please who has played a bard for a long time or just really knows there stuff. Help me with a build for a bard that might fit my purpose. I don't want to melee..only thing I am not open too.

Sorry about the typo's...its 3 a.m. here almost...and have been reading the boards and just thinking of what I have to do to get over this hump of finding a second character that I will be happy with.

Thanks in advance

[Arianrhod]

Might want to look into some of the CC bard builds, if you're looking for a bard who's going to be the best at something. On the other hand, if you want a character who can rain down destruction on the enemy & still self-heal, might want to check out the WF forums & consider a WF wiz or sorc. Then again, sounds like you really like clerics - no need to mess with a good thing

[Dariun]

I think Warforged wizard or sorcerer sounds like a good idea for you to consider.

If you do want a bard, drow w/ 20 charisma focusing on crowd control seems the way to go. I'll let others who know the bard class better offer build suggestions.

[MysticRhythms]

I dislike bards as Crowd Control specialists. If you want to do crowd control, why be a Bard? Just play a Sorcerer or a Wizard and get more mana and better crowd control options. I realize that fascinate is a strong crowd controlling tool but there just aren't enough songs to go around between rests to be a pure fascinator (my opinion). Charming and Suggestion seem to be the crowd control methods of choice these days and while Bards CAN do that, they just don't have the mana to be able to do it as well as spellcasters.

To me, the best thing a Bard can do is buff. Buffing never loses value at high levels. There's no DC you need to maintain at a high level to be effective. It works on everyone in the group and generates strong synergy.

To me it sounds like you want to really just keep lpaying clerics. Yes, Bards can heal but they really cannot keep up with high level clerics when it comes to mass healing or the Heal spell or Restorations. You can do it with scrolls to some extent, but if you want to be a persistent health-bar-watcher, you've found your class.

Stick with it.

[Amabel]

I'm not sure that you'll enjoy a bard. It sounds to me like you enjoy characters that have exceptional strengths and dislike characters that aren't min/maxed in a particular area. As a bard, you're there to make the whole run smooth, not for the special effects throw down the maxed firewall or blade barrier, or tank the dragon. And, in my opinion, you get the best out of a bard from doing some melee, and particularly by dual wielding. If you want to just hang back - play a pure caster.

As a bard, one seems to end up in two types of groups. One (most common) doesn't even notice what you're doing, or that their to hit and damage are much higher than usual, or that you're doing some of the healing and most of the CC, or that it was you who raised the guy who went down, or that your songs have stayed up during that beholder fight.

The other (more common as you get to higher levels) simply adore you're buffs and appreciate that you can fill in for the DPS fighters, keep them hasted, blurred and displaced, or drop back and heal if the cleric runs out of mana. Bards excel at making the other party members better. If you really work hard at it you can put out amazing DPS (see the many excellent DPS builds posted recently), but you'll also be ensuring that the tanks are also putting out some big numbers. They'll just adore you.

If you like being the best healer, or the best caster (cc or damage), or topping the kill count, don't play a bard.

If you like it when every now and then you'll get someone comment that a run seems easier than they remembered, or that they're criting for huge numbers, without realising that it's because you've kept them buffed and used appropriate CC while dual wielding thundering rapiers of destruction to both damage the mobs and make them easy to hit, you'll like playing a bard.

Of course, every now and then you also get "Yay, a bard", or "I love running with this bard, great to see you again, this should be fun guys", and they're the times you're really happy.

[geezee]

Agree 100% with the above 3 posters.

[Aesop]

Wait for Druids... Then you will find another class to play

Aesop


oh btw I love bards... I just never play them... I should change that... but I'm out of characters slots... wait... I think I have one or two starter bards on a server or two... I'll have to look

[markymarksta]

I love playing my bard. I currently have a lvl 14 Drow, Enchat. focused, cc, sword and board Bard. He has 20 STR and 34 CHA. I'm also in the process of leveling up a THF Battle Bard. (10Bard/4fighter).

I enjoy going into a group and deciding where there is a weakness and try to fill it with my bard. I'll ask myself the questions;

1. Does this group need an extra fighter (so I'll help fight, I mostly use a +4 keen wounding rapier or ghost touch light mace disruptor or holy heavy mace of Gtr Undead Bane. Mind you I won't go toe to toe with a moster, I'll control it with a spell and help the tanks take it down),
2. Does the group need more caster support (so I'll crowd control, I have 34 CHA + spellsinger + 2 dc enchant focus. I also will help buff with GH, blur, my songs and displacement at key times),
3. Does the group need healing support (so I'll help heal, 42 UMD I can use heal scrolls without failure. I also have cure crit, serious and light wounds),
4. Does the whole team need help and I have to get the situation back under control? (I will facinate including constructs and undead). Apart from facinating.

I am not a master of any one thing but I am reasonably good at them all. This is the way I play my bard, but ofcourse there are many ways to build a bard and play them within a group.

I often group with regular friends. Most of the time when we organise what classes we are taking I'm often encouraged to take my bard. While in pugs, most people respond positvely to a bards company. The class is there to bring out the best in everyone e.g. Extra hitpoints, skill points, to hit, dmg for everyone, even -10% mana cost and +1 DC for casters if you take spellsinger enhancement etc.

If this sounds like the type of role you wan't to take then I would go make a bard. If your the type that wan'ts to lead the kill count whether it be through a wiz/sorc/barb/fighter or be thanked at the end for keeping the party all healed up (given your not a healer speced bard) then perhaps the bard class is not for you.

Note: Ofcourse I have explained only ONE approach to playing a bard. My aim is to explain the dynamic role a bard plays in a group and by no means it is intended to exclude any other approach to building and role playing a bard.

Enjoy the class.

[A_Sheep]

Replace your TWF fighter with a really similar build, but be a bard instead. I think you will find that to be quite potent.

Einar Mal's Deadly Spellsinger/Geezee's Icy and my Taalisyn build I think are all very good TWF bards. If you adapt any of these for Dwarf-use, you can achieve lots of Hit points. None of these builders chose to go that way, so I can't really recomend it, but just want to put it out there.

[Arianrhod]

Well, chances are (as several respondents have noted) that the OP doesn't really want to be a bard - wants a class that's the best at something, and can self-heal, which probably means cleric or WF arcane. Bards are great characters, but they're not really about being the best at something, they're about versatility - no other class has UMD as a class skill & charisma enhancements

[maddmatt70]

A_Sheep it sounds like to me he does not want to play melee so I would strongly advice against those two weapon fighting bard builds. The poster who suggested wf wiz or sorc is onto something there especially if the op can convince his guildies to also make wf. I have a level 14 wiz and a ranged specialist, but my favorite characters to play are healing or melee oriented. A few friends of mine created wf characters on another server and I created a wf sorceror who is alot of fun to play. Quickened repairs spells from a sorceror are awesome + I get to blow things up. The other option that you may want to look into if you enjoy healing/cc is the recent post in the bard forum of a halfling bard I think it is Build323. The Op in that thread wanted to create a healing bard machine who also nukes. I don't really think that build could pull of the nuking very well, but if you modified that for cc you could have alot of cc potentially some sweet bard buffage and awesome healing. To the poster who said that you can not fascinate throughout a quest your mistaken because with 18 possible bard songs (bard extra song 4 and 14 for 14 level) you can fascinate nearly an entire quest - pop is a great example of this. I can fascinate everything in the hallways and in the first several rooms BEFORE I shrine and also hit the party up with spellsinger, inspire courage, and inspire greatness....

Finally, you don't need a cleric in a party because in reality bards are more optimum. Build a healing bard and run without a cleric in group - you will be pleasantly surprised...

[MysticRhythms]

To the poster who said that you can not fascinate throughout a quest your mistaken because with 18 possible bard songs (bard extra song 4 and 14 for 14 level) you can fascinate nearly an entire quest - pop is a great example of this. I can fascinate everything in the hallways and in the first several rooms BEFORE I shrine and also hit the party up with spellsinger, inspire courage, and inspire greatness....

I stated it was my opinion. I have a Warchanter. In general, I'm spending 3 songs to Ironskin Chant, Inspire Greatness and Inspire Courage at the get-go. Generally the two inspirations need 1 replay to keep the buff going nearly continuously. Because Ironskin Chant is such a short duration, it generally needs 2-4 replays (although it isn't always necessary). That's 6-8 songs gone before the first shrine leaving 10 for fascinate, assuming you're a level 14 Bard and took the four extra songs. Ten fascinates may be enough sometimes. I generally like to keep Ironskin Chant up a lot so I feel pinched for songs in some places.

Each level increase will make this less of a burden, however. But if you're also trying to use suggestion on top of the fascinate, those song uses dry up really fast.

[MysticRhythms]

Finally, you don't need a cleric in a party because in reality bards are more optimum. Build a healing bard and run without a cleric in group - you will be pleasantly surprised...

I strongly disagree with this statement. It costs a Bard a lot more resources to keep an entire group healed throughout a quest at higher levels. There is more to healing than hit point damage and Bards must use scrolls to pull that off. That strains their emphasis opn UMD and backpack space. They also have fewer healing spells and healing enhancements to do the everyday hit point healing that a high level cleric can pull off.

Bards are much better at it than wand-whipping rangers and paladins, but bards are NOT at all "more optimum" than clerics at the healing role.

I strongly believe the OP would be disappointed with a Bard specialized for healing since he already knows how good clerics are at it.

[EinarMal]

I strongly disagree with this statement. It costs a Bard a lot more resources to keep an entire group healed throughout a quest at higher levels. There is more to healing than hit point damage and Bards must use scrolls to pull that off. That strains their emphasis opn UMD and backpack space. They also have fewer healing spells and healing enhancements to do the everyday hit point healing that a high level cleric can pull off.

Bards are much better at it than wand-whipping rangers and paladins, but bards are NOT at all "more optimum" than clerics at the healing role.

I strongly believe the OP would be disappointed with a Bard specialized for healing since he already knows how good clerics are at it.

If you went halfling marked with 3xMarks, Empower Healing, and Mental Toughness and picked up spellsinger for +UMD and spell points you could come pretty close on the hit point healing I think as a Bard, but you would still have to lay out plat for the other "clerical" things like raise dead and restore.

I am not sure how much fun that would be, or how it would be different than just playing the cleric.

[EinarMal]

What kind of cleric do you normally play? What if you made an offensive casting cleric with maxed out wisdom, it sounds like the other ones were more healing types? Blade barriers, cometfall, harm, greater command that can be fun I think. You can also still heal as well. Not sure you might have already done that...

To me it sounds like though that you just like watching health bars and healing? If that is the case you are not likely to beat your cleric build...

[maddmatt70]

I strongly disagree with this statement. It costs a Bard a lot more resources to keep an entire group healed throughout a quest at higher levels. There is more to healing than hit point damage and Bards must use scrolls to pull that off. That strains their emphasis opn UMD and backpack space. They also have fewer healing spells and healing enhancements to do the everyday hit point healing that a high level cleric can pull off.

Bards are much better at it than wand-whipping rangers and paladins, but bards are NOT at all "more optimum" than clerics at the healing role.

I strongly believe the OP would be disappointed with a Bard specialized for healing since he already knows how good clerics are at it.

Your wrong man.. I ran about 30 scales runs all pug runs back when gianthold was hopping as sole healer and averaged 5 or less heal scrolls a run. empowered healing feat with max bard healing and a nice devotion item (you can also toggle on quicken where necessary). What bards have over clerics is the ability to cast displacement on everybody and they upgrade the entire party's dps via their songs. I have a 13 bard/1 sorc with about 1300 sp. I would have recommended that build if it were not the level cap increase to 16, the halfling level 14 bard with dragonmarks get less sp then my build, but 5 heal spells with the dragonmarks and plenty of sp. The only instance where a cleric has the advantage over my bard is the abbot raid where one mass cure spell is not enough with quicken and beholder runs where heal is used as a dps method, but with the cap raise to 16 bards get another mass cure spell so abbot raid problem might be solved. There are very few people that play bard that want to play a bard healer, but if you really do the numbers you can make a pretty potent healing machine... The op sounds like he wants to make a different character, a bard healer is one option...

[KoboldKiller]

Ummm yes, or not, maybe. Seriously it's what you feel comfortable playing. I'm bored sorry I wasn't more constructive.

[MysticRhythms]

Your wrong man..

I don't think so. You have to use scrolls/wands to do things like Remove Disease, Restoration, Death Ward and even simple things like energy resistances. I'm sure you can spend gobs of bard enhancements on mana, healing enhanements and charisma stat bumps as well as spell slots on healing and body slots on keeping things like UMD high enough and a Devotion item equipped. Clerics have better enhancements and take up less resources to be better at healing than Bards. They don't have to devote every ounce of enhancement/feat/build point to healing. They also don't have to devote 40% of their pack space into doing everything.

I ran about 30 scales runs all pug runs back when gianthold was hopping as sole healer and averaged 5 or less heal scrolls a run.

A cleric can do the same thing without any. And why do you mention just one instance?

What bards have over clerics is the ability to cast displacement on everybody and they upgrade the entire party's dps via their songs.

Clerics have ... the entire cleric spell list and will have enough mana to add either crod control or buffs of their own to the mix and they can still heal better.

I have a 13 bard/1 sorc with about 1300 sp.

So you added yet another restriction onto your healing build. I also question the 1300 mana but whatever.

I would have recommended that build if it were not the level cap increase to 16

And what's wrong with your build come the level bump?

The only instance where a cleric has the advantage over my bard is the abbot raid where one mass cure spell is not enough with quicken and beholder runs where heal is used as a dps method

And of course anything that casts Enervation and reduces your UMD to where you can't reliably cast Heal (and other things) from a scroll.

but with the cap raise to 16 bards get another mass cure spell so abbot raid problem might be solved. They are very few people that play bard that want to play a bard healer, but if you really do the numbers you can make a pretty potent healing machine... The op sounds like he wants to make a different character, a bard healer is one option...

I wouldn't say "potent." I'd say competent, and that's assumign you have plat to burn to mimic the other things that a cleric would bring just by having a mana pool.

[maddmatt70]

I don't think so. You have to use scrolls/wands to do things like Remove Disease, Restoration, Death Ward and even simple things like energy resistances. I'm sure you can spend gobs of bard enhancements on mana, healing enhanements and charisma stat bumps as well as spell slots on healing and body slots on keeping things like UMD high enough and a Devotion item equipped. Clerics have better enhancements and take up less resources to be better at healing than Bards. They don't have to devote every ounce of enhancement/feat/build point to healing. They also don't have to devote 40% of their pack space into doing everything.


A cleric can do the same thing without any. And why do you mention just one instance?


Clerics have ... the entire cleric spell list and will have enough mana to add either crod control or buffs of their own to the mix and they can still heal better.


So you added yet another restriction onto your healing build. I also question the 1300 mana but whatever.


And what's wrong with your build come the level bump?


And of course anything that casts Enervation and reduces your UMD to where you can't reliably cast Heal (and other things) from a scroll.



I wouldn't say "potent." I'd say competent, and that's assumign you have plat to burn to mimic the other things that a cleric would bring just by having a mana pool.

My bard has 1289 sp(in addition i have a spell storing ring so closer to 1364). I have the abbot raid silver flame robe +150 sp (I would like to get the emerald claw robe, but the abbot is not beatable right now), mental toughness, 34 charisma on my drow, and I am a spellsinger. I could even get more if I got a +3 charisma tome and litany of the dead book from the abbot raid, ran around with a skyver, and took the feat improved mental toughness.

You name the raid/quest and I have been sole healer on that quest other then the abbot and beholder pre-raid although I could probably do the beholder pre-raid, but what is the point there.

The reason why I would not recommend my build with one level of sorc is with the level cap increase to 16 I will not get 6th level bard spels, but will have to wait until the level cap goes to 18. The key healing spell at level 16 for bards is cure mod mass. My bard might take a vacation, but oh well...

My haggle is in the 40s so scrolls cost less for me then clerics of course. I have plenty of heal, raise dead, resurrection scrolls, restoration, and greater restoration on hand. It is very important to get your umd up there of course, but 7th level no fail umd is easily within reach. Yes I do not have death ward access via spell or scroll - this is a negative of the bard build, but if you have alot of time on your hands like the op sounds like he does just sack tangleroot 15 times and get about 10 goggles from that quest... The only classes that don't have energy resistance are bard, rogue, barbarian, fighter so unless the OP is running in groups that solely comprise those classes he will be getting energy resistance and the OP always has the resist wands option which drops fairly frequently..

DPS as your best offense can be your best defense - the bard really adds to the melees in the group he is ins offense and spellsinger never hurts the casters dc.

The OP really sounds like he needs something different and he really enjoys healing but not melee. That the OP does not have a caster speaks volumes and indicates that either warforged healer or bard healing he might really enjoy and be his best bet.

[maddmatt70]

One other thing after reading the OP's posting you could make a hardier rogue that does alot of dps. Go with a dwarven rogue strength build who goes axe and board with several toughness feats, etc if you are concerned about surviveablity. Just an option... I can't tell if that is what you want though.