TWF Deadly Singer Build

[maddmatt70]

I do not agree. There are always things this build can do in any situation, like all Bards, I can heal just fine in a pinch with heal scrolls, wands, spells, I can buff, I can fight, I can cast, that is the BEST kind of Bard in my opinion. I can adapt to whatever group I am in and do what is needed to make the quest go smoother, sometimes that is using DPS, sometimes curspewing, stat damaging, etc...sometimes that is CC casting, sometimes healing, I have done all of those things many times.

The Bard that is only casting focused HAS to cast crowd control spells no matter how resistant a mob is, that is the beauty of this build I don't have to I can simply kill or reduce it's strength through TWF. I would take this Bard over a spell focus CC build any day of the week and twice on Sunday, those are the real gimped Bard builds.

When it is easy and there are many many options you can do stuff sure, but when the quest is in the balance this build doesn't deliver. It doesn't heal as well as other bards where healing is required, doesn't add dps like a warchanter, doesn't do its own dps like others, doesn't cc as well, etc - in a word gimped. Really when the chips are down call -dial a real bard-..

[EinarMal]

When it is easy and there are many many options you can do stuff sure, but when the quest is in the balance this build doesn't deliver. It doesn't heal as well as other bards where healing is required, doesn't add dps like a warchanter, doesn't do its own dps like others, doesn't cc as well, etc - in a word gimped. Really when the chips are down call -dial a real bard-..

Yeah whatever....you act as if you are some kind of a Bard expert when in fact no one agrees with anything you say....

Your only "build" is a toadie Bard that does nothing but follow other people around licking their boots.....

Shouldn't you be following shade around displacing/healing him and carrying his luggage or something?

[maddmatt70]

Yeah whatever....you act as if you are some kind of a Bard expert when in fact no one agrees with anything you say....

Your only "build" is a toadie Bard that does nothing but follow other people around licking their boots.....

Shouldn't you be following shade around displacing/healing him and carrying his luggage or something?

I have a burning desire to win in this game. If the other people can't see things that is their problem, but alot of them do see as evidenced by some of the builds here. An example of where people here didn't see it was the buffing warchanter who didnt meele, but rather healed and healed well. That build is the single most effective build in a 12 person raid specifically the shroud and to a lesser extent the old abbot raid when people tried to power through it. I have seen it first hand, but many "bard critics" called that build a waste of two feats (power attack and weapon focus) when the reality is the songs are incredibly powerful for melee and the healing is a far greater help then any of this other nonsense builds stuff posted on these forums. I am seeing more and more builds of that type in today's game everyday in the shroud because people want to beat it and win... Beating raids and quests from a bard's perspective is not necessarily glamorous work its just getting the job done.

[EinarMal]

I have a burning desire to win in this game. If the other people can't see things that is their problem, but alot of them do see as evidenced by some of the builds here. An example of where people here didn't see it was the buffing warchanter who didnt meele, but rather healed and healed well. That build is the single most effective build in a 12 person raid specifically the shroud and to a lesser extent the old abbot raid when people tried to power through it. I have seen it first hand, but many "bard critics" called that build a waste of two feats (power attack and weapon focus) when the reality is the songs are incredibly powerful for melee and the healing is a far greater help then any of this other nonsense builds stuff posted on these forums. I am seeing more and more builds of that type in today's game everyday in the shroud because people want to beat it and win... Beating raids and quests from a bard's perspective is not necessarily glamorous work its just getting the job done.

You can't win a game like this, it is a silly way to build characters. What "wins" today won't be the best two weeks from now. This is a fun and very effective build that works no matter how they change the game, because it isn't based on some gimmick like a warchanter that doesn't fight so that you can buff for a couple of raids SLIGHTLY better than this build. (Note Bard buffs from a non-warchanter work just fine both before warchanter EXISTED and now and a spellsinger build buffs both melee and casters so is actually if anything more of a song buff powerhouse).

Believe it or not people complete the shroud and other quests everyday and I bet 99% of them manage to do it without a warchanter Bard who doesn't fight. You don't NEED that, in fact I am sure it has been completed many times without a Bard at all.

I really disagree, as I already have stated, with pretty much everything you say. I do not agree with your view of the game, of Bards, and how to play them. So, it really is pointless to continue this as there is really nothing else to add beyond that.

[emsteiner]

First off I would like to start by saying that I am no build master or a super uber Leet player. I consider myself to be a causal player. With that I usually Play 10 hrs a week. However I saw this build and thought I would give it shot and would just like to post my "testing" of the build here. EinarMal hope you don't mind.

So here goes. Last night I rolled this build up and took it up to level 2. I know thats not a major feat but I spent most of last night seach thorough my other toons junk to find some decent gear to equip her with. By the way here name is Dewars McHaggis. Darn game wouldn't allow me to name her Spicey.

Enough with the back story here is what I found:

Through the goodblades quest I was consistently hitting Mobs on hard. When we did elite I wasn't hitting that often. BTW I was dual weilding Short swords most of the time however when I wanted to do more damage on elite I would cast Master's Touch and use a great axe that I found. I really like Masters Touch because it opens up my weapon options.
When I went to level up I decided to put skill points into haggle instead of diplomacy. My reasoning for this was I am a player that doesn't use skills or feat that I have to activate that much however there is something about selling vendor junk for more money that I like.

Well those are my opions on the build so far I will keep everyone updated as this character develops. If anyone has any suggestions or any question and I will try to answer them. Overall I like this build so far however most builds are pretty fun when you first start them out.

[nbhs275]

I have a burning desire to win in this game. If the other people can't see things that is their problem, but alot of them do see as evidenced by some of the builds here. An example of where people here didn't see it was the buffing warchanter who didnt meele, but rather healed and healed well. That build is the single most effective build in a 12 person raid specifically the shroud and to a lesser extent the old abbot raid when people tried to power through it. I have seen it first hand, but many "bard critics" called that build a waste of two feats (power attack and weapon focus) when the reality is the songs are incredibly powerful for melee and the healing is a far greater help then any of this other nonsense builds stuff posted on these forums. I am seeing more and more builds of that type in today's game everyday in the shroud because people want to beat it and win... Beating raids and quests from a bard's perspective is not necessarily glamorous work its just getting the job done.

LMAO! what kind of gimpy groups are you in where you need all the clerics and a bard healing full time?? My newly warchanter bard(switched from spellsinger because i had what i felt was more mana then i needed) Can buff to the max, fight and heal. Part 1 needs so little healing, im sure i could do it on torrak with just CLW mass off of his rather small SP(around 900).

Part 2 yet again takes so little healing. Toss a displacment on the melees in your corner, a disco and fog, drag them in and win. Maybe 5-6 CSW and 1-2 scrolls can bring a good group all the way from NE to NW.

The bosses yet again, you just need someone who can heal moderately in 3-4 of the corners. I often take the orc or trog by myself on torrak, that way there is even more dps on the others.

Part 3 is basically no healing.

part 4 consists of mass heals, which 3 good clerics can handle easily without pots. The bards mass heals help, but i rather have another body with 32 str and full warchanter buffs in there swinging against big red.

[EinarMal]

First off I would like to start by saying that I am no build master or a super uber Leet player. I consider myself to be a causal player. With that I usually Play 10 hrs a week. However I saw this build and thought I would give it shot and would just like to post my "testing" of the build here. EinarMal hope you don't mind.

So here goes. Last night I rolled this build up and took it up to level 2. I know thats not a major feat but I spent most of last night seach thorough my other toons junk to find some decent gear to equip her with. By the way here name is Dewars McHaggis. Darn game wouldn't allow me to name her Spicey.

Enough with the back story here is what I found:

Through the goodblades quest I was consistently hitting Mobs on hard. When we did elite I wasn't hitting that often. BTW I was dual weilding Short swords most of the time however when I wanted to do more damage on elite I would cast Master's Touch and use a great axe that I found. I really like Masters Touch because it opens up my weapon options.
When I went to level up I decided to put skill points into haggle instead of diplomacy. My reasoning for this was I am a player that doesn't use skills or feat that I have to activate that much however there is something about selling vendor junk for more money that I like.

Well those are my opions on the build so far I will keep everyone updated as this character develops. If anyone has any suggestions or any question and I will try to answer them. Overall I like this build so far however most builds are pretty fun when you first start them out.

My suggestion first of all is to not dual wield until you get further up in levels. I typically use a shield until I get ITWF, high AC is better in the early levels compared to doing a bit more DPS with just plain old TWF. Look for a mithral light shield of stability, that really helps get the AC without getting any spell failure.

[maddmatt70]

LMAO! what kind of gimpy groups are you in where you need all the clerics and a bard healing full time?? My newly warchanter bard(switched from spellsinger because i had what i felt was more mana then i needed) Can buff to the max, fight and heal. Part 1 needs so little healing, im sure i could do it on torrak with just CLW mass off of his rather small SP(around 900).

Part 2 yet again takes so little healing. Toss a displacment on the melees in your corner, a disco and fog, drag them in and win. Maybe 5-6 CSW and 1-2 scrolls can bring a good group all the way from NE to NW.

The bosses yet again, you just need someone who can heal moderately in 3-4 of the corners. I often take the orc or trog by myself on torrak, that way there is even more dps on the others.

Part 3 is basically no healing.

part 4 consists of mass heals, which 3 good clerics can handle easily without pots. The bards mass heals help, but i rather have another body with 32 str and full warchanter buffs in there swinging against big red.

Oh the gimpy groups that beat the shroud raid on elite. So what do you do on part 5 on normal and yes you may have a dwarven battle bard sure they can stand in there, but many bards are forced to heal so why not be good at it. Empower healing, bard song magic 4, more spell points, spell mastery 4. When you go onto hard and elite you will need to heal there is no really avoiding it, but your not built heal, but rather are gimped at it. We are talking about this in terms of experienced players with good gear, but if you are an inexperienced player with less gear the same can be said about warchanter/healing build being superior on normal...

[emsteiner]

My suggestion first of all is to not dual wield until you get further up in levels. I typically use a shield until I get ITWF, high AC is better in the early levels compared to doing a bit more DPS with just plain old TWF. Look for a mithral light shield of stability, that really helps get the AC without getting any spell failure.

I'll see what I can find on the AH tonight. Hopefully I'll be able to hit Level 3 or 4 tonight. Thanks for the info.

[Westerner]

My suggestion first of all is to not dual wield until you get further up in levels. I typically use a shield until I get ITWF, high AC is better in the early levels compared to doing a bit more DPS with just plain old TWF.

Einar, this makes sense, however, how do you handle the timing for taking feats? Can you illustrate with an example? Thanks.

[EinarMal]

Einar, this makes sense, however, how do you handle the timing for taking feats? Can you illustrate with an example? Thanks.

I have now

Feats:
1-TWF
3-Spell Penetration
6-Heighten
9-ITWF
12-IC Piercing
15-GTWF

For leveling I had mental toughness and extend, I swapped extend for TWF prior to hitting level 9. I just recently swapped out mental toughness for spell penetration in Mod6.

[nbhs275]

Oh the gimpy groups that beat the shroud raid on elite. So what do you do on part 5 on normal and yes you may have a dwarven battle bard sure they can stand in there, but many bards are forced to heal so why not be good at it. Empower healing, bard song magic 4, more spell points, spell mastery 4. When you go onto hard and elite you will need to heal there is no really avoiding it, but your not built heal, but rather are gimped at it. We are talking about this in terms of experienced players with good gear, but if you are an inexperienced player with less gear the same can be said about warchanter/healing build being superior on normal...

you make it sound like its any harder on elite. 1-3 are virtually the same. Just the minibosses have more HP. Big woop. Part 4 is yet again just about breaking his DR and keeping up the pace of red devils gnolls red. Same as normal just that its more drawn out and mistakes can cost you the win. I dont see how a bard healing is so much better then just the clerics. Clerics with endless mana can basically heal anything, so your bard isnt really helping. 2 clerics heal while the third regens. Switching back and forth as eachother get low. Your bards healing will be a nice addition, but if your party is using a full group of melee approach, then the extra damage from a battlebard that can heal is much better then the little extra healing.

Not sure how my battle bard is gimped, seeing i have full devtion amplification, crit chance and multiplier. Only thing i dont have is empower healing, which is not mana smart anyways.

[Ianim_Watershadow]

Personally, when it came to feats, I popped in Enchantment instead of Spell Pen so I could take Extend at lvl6 and still catch Spellsinger. This because low levels I don't use or need Heighten. However, I foresee myself switching feats around to Spell Pen and Heighten once I get to upper levels. 12+ perhaps. Personal preference but it seems to be working out for me so far. Maybe something to consider for those that don't care for Heighten.

[EinarMal]

Personally, when it came to feats, I popped in Enchantment instead of Spell Pen so I could take Extend at lvl6 and still catch Spellsinger. This because low levels I don't use or need Heighten. However, I foresee myself switching feats around to Spell Pen and Heighten once I get to upper levels. 12+ perhaps. Personal preference but it seems to be working out for me so far. Maybe something to consider for those that don't care for Heighten.

Yeah I did not have heighten until mod 6, mental toughness also counts for Spellsinger. The best two feats for early levels to me are mental toughness and extend.

[maddmatt70]

you make it sound like its any harder on elite. 1-3 are virtually the same. Just the minibosses have more HP. Big woop. Part 4 is yet again just about breaking his DR and keeping up the pace of red devils gnolls red. Same as normal just that its more drawn out and mistakes can cost you the win. I dont see how a bard healing is so much better then just the clerics. Clerics with endless mana can basically heal anything, so your bard isnt really helping. 2 clerics heal while the third regens. Switching back and forth as eachother get low. Your bards healing will be a nice addition, but if your party is using a full group of melee approach, then the extra damage from a battlebard that can heal is much better then the little extra healing.

Not sure how my battle bard is gimped, seeing i have full devtion amplification, crit chance and multiplier. Only thing i dont have is empower healing, which is not mana smart anyways.

So you haven't done it on elite that much is obvious. The pools dry up so there is not endless mana unless you consider the clerics pounding mana pots endless mana. Mass healing doesn't work on elite so well because the damage by the pit fiend is greater so the margin for error is less. Death is a very bad thing in there. Everybody helps out healing, but hangover, my healing bard, can take the place of a cleric which is kind of the point (I have gone in there with one cleric on normal and was one of the clerics in there on elite). If your built to battle and cc, but you have to heal when your not built to heal then = gimped. This has never been about parts 1-3 which are easy on any difficulty. Why are you wasting your enhancements on crit multiplier - one thing a bard isn't going to do as well as a cleric is heal a beholder to death that is one thing a cleric is far superior at doing. I could go on, but since you know all the answers then why I am wasting my breath. You are the same guy who cursed and swore at mavnimo and told mavnimo that he doesn't know a thing about the quest, when he only knows more about the quest then probably anybody in the game at the moment so what is the point of debating with you anyway.

[nbhs275]

So you haven't done it on elite that much is obvious. The pools dry up so there is not endless mana unless you consider the clerics pounding mana pots endless mana. Mass healing doesn't work on elite so well because the damage by the pit fiend is greater so the margin for error is less. Death is a very bad thing in there. Everybody helps out healing, but hangover, my healing bard, can take the place of a cleric which is kind of the point (I have gone in there with one cleric on normal and was one of the clerics in there on elite). If your built to battle and cc, but you have to heal when your not built to heal then = gimped. This has never been about parts 1-3 which are easy on any difficulty. Why are you wasting your enhancements on crit multiplier - one thing a bard isn't going to do as well as a cleric is heal a beholder to death that is one thing a cleric is far superior at doing. I could go on, but since you know all the answers then why I am wasting my breath. You are the same guy who cursed and swore at mavnimo and told mavnimo that he doesn't know a thing about the quest, when he only knows more about the quest then probably anybody in the game at the moment so what is the point of debating with you anyway.

actually, i didnt swear once at mavnimo or insult him. He was the one throughing out the verbal abuse. I told him before we started that i was a battle cleric and would be fighting. I did plenty of healing. I also took out the fire elemental basically by myself because he didnt have the thought to send me a melee not made of paper. He cussed me out about a blade barrier i didnt cast. I dont really see a reason for ME spending any of my plat or items to keep a blowhard alive. Im not the only one who dropped, so did the other clerics he was whining at for no good reason. I collected my loot and quite cleanly said that *****ing and insulting the clerics is a poor way to convince them to spend money on him.

The guy needs an ego check. Just because hes a barbarian in the same guild as Axer doesnt mean hes anywhere in the same caliber. I gotta say i like axer, he doesnt bullsh!t and gets the job done. But he also doesnt tell others they are morons for doing the right thing.

Healing critical isnt useful? wow. You hit for 50% more every time, where i hit for x3 about 20% of the time. You may be ahead, but i also didnt put two feats into it.

I have done it elite, and it really isnt so horrible with a strong organized group. Either alot of ranged damage with one or two main tanks, or alot melees with alot of strong group heals. Im sorry that i didnt feel the need to post a dozen times that ive done it and that im so grand. Get over yourself man, your 2-3 experiences doesnt overrule everyone elses. You made a bard suited for great melee support. Cool. When this thread is about that your opinion will be on topic. But right now we are talking about a character that is based around its abilities, party withstanding, not how well you can take care of your blowhard guildmates' characters.

[Davinna]

maddmatt and nbhs: Why don't you guys take the debate to private messages. IMO- You are ruining this thread. If you want a debate on what kind of bard is needed in the shroud, make a new post.

[emsteiner]

Well I only made it to level 3 this week. Didn't get that much time to play. I managed to get a shield off the auction house and some other items. So far for spells I have taken Focusing Chant, Masters Touch and Expeditious Retreat. My question for everyone is does Focusing Chant increase the + numbers for attack rolls and skill checks as you level? If it doesn't increase would it be better to take charm person so you have a "pet to help kill mobs". As for Expeditious retreat it makes it nice to move around the dugeons and through the harbor.

So far it has been a very fun build. It seems I am leading or at the top of the kill count during each quest. My only problem is other players not realizing the value of a good Bard song whether it be a buff or fascinating a group of Mobs to help manage aggro. If anyone has anything specific they would like me to try or any question let me know.

[Bragnor]

Well I only made it to level 3 this week. Didn't get that much time to play. I managed to get a shield off the auction house and some other items. So far for spells I have taken Focusing Chant, Masters Touch and Expeditious Retreat. My question for everyone is does Focusing Chant increase the + numbers for attack rolls and skill checks as you level? If it doesn't increase would it be better to take charm person so you have a "pet to help kill mobs". As for Expeditious retreat it makes it nice to move around the dugeons and through the harbor.

So far it has been a very fun build. It seems I am leading or at the top of the kill count during each quest. My only problem is other players not realizing the value of a good Bard song whether it be a buff or fascinating a group of Mobs to help manage aggro. If anyone has anything specific they would like me to try or any question let me know.

I play a very similar build to this. The biggest difference is that instead of spell pen I have oversized two weapon fighting (though now that I'm in the vale more often I am considering swapping OSTWF for Spell Pen though I have found in MOST cases just the two spell pen enhancements are enough with a good pen item. At all levels I have been nothing but thrilled with this bard as have all my groups. I never did use focusing chant though... Never been a big fan of 1 minute buffs unless it's something like haste. For a +1 bonus I'm just not sure it's worth tying up a spell slot.

I currently have loaded: Detect Secret Doors (cast once, lasts till next rest), I've just found this to be a very useful spell especially when the party doesn't have a rogue. Hypnotism... don't leave home without it.... Master's Touch.... and Ottos Resistable Dance... I had cure light instead of detect secret doors at lower levels (basically until I got cure crit and dumped cure light)

It definitely isn't a 'gimped' build.... It's different... and is a bit less 'specialized' than other builds. But it certainly isn't gimped by any measure and it's absolutely a LOT of fun to play. First character I've ever had survive to level 16 in fact Call it gimped all you like. I call it versatile. When a party drafts me into the group I can deliver whatever they need. I have never had a problem filling any role I've needed to well... Which is what I love about the build. If group needs a melee? I can do that... if group needs a caster? Sure I can CC better than most.... If group needs a melee? Yep can do that. The only thing this build doesn't do super well is prime tank.

Not to mention that since it's a pure build depending what they do with the level 17/18/19/20 bard stuff you could very easily toss in 4 levels of 'something else' to enhance the build. (4 levels of fighter would net 3 feats)

[objar]

I don't come on the boards here much, but wanted to see what the buzz was on the bard boards, here...


I play on Thelanis. My bard, Irishcarbomb, had been capped since early December at 14, and it's transformed into a TWF Drow Combat-Oriented Spellsinger. Was my first character to 16, and people that I run with know they can count on me to pull their butts out of the fire if things get hairy, but usually when I'm running with friends things never get to that point to begin with.
Anyway!

I put my level up points 1 into CHA, 3 into STR, and have been fortunate to pull several tomes, and it's amazing what a well-built bard can accomplish. I've hit some bumps in the road, spent a few shards at one point or another, but a TWF pure spellsinger is a VERY viable option. I only wish I had more feats so I could quick up Quicken and Empower Healing, with Quicken being the one I want most.

When do you need mass heals the most? When the **** hits the fan, and you'll be failing concentration checks if it gets to that point. Quicken makes those heals possible, saving the party. Impromptu glitterdusts are always helpful especially if you run with a great rogue often, like I do. Quicken will be the feat for me at 18. Although Empower Healing is very appealing... Of course all this is moot if they implement Superior TWF, which probably will not happen.

This style of play is not for everyone, but I have had a hell of a time playing it, and still do, all these months later after capping.

Nicely done, Einar-mal.

-Irishcarbomb, Sameutia on Thelanis :]