Level Respecing

[Fallout]

What you are describing is an attribute or skill respec. It's quite a bit different than the level respec people are asking for.

They already have feat respec for feat changes. For 28pt builds I said before that they should be given 4 more build points at 1750. That should make up for mispent points at build, and put them on par with subsequent 32pt builds.

Why does it matter? because I want to know why people are demanding the devs invest the time. There needs to be good reason to divert dev time and energy into such a project. Are the reasons people give valid, or do they just like to constantly tweak their toons every way possible?

Thats only my examples. There are examples of multi-classing. What then? Class respec? There's also the arguement of skill allocation. 4 additional build points is not as easy at it seems. What happens after you eat a tome? Then the attribute cost more.

So its much easier just to do a reroll that covers it all if you can re-design the character from scratch.

>Are the reasons people give valid, or do they just like to constantly tweak their toons every way possible?

Both are valid reasons. Like I said before, what drives this game is character and builds. If you think character and builds are not important, then you're playing the wrong game.

[krud]

Whats important in DDO/PnP etc? Yes, the characters. The characters are what drives the game.

That's what I see written, but that's not what you're saying. If it's the characters that are important, then a point here or there shouldn't matter. It sounds like it's the numbers (or maximizing them) that are important.

[Fallout]

It sounds like it's the numbers (or maximizing them) that are important.

If they weren't important then Turbine would not assign numbers to them. They could easily put 'low', 'medium', 'high'.

[krud]

Thats only my examples. There are examples of multi-classing. What then? Class respec? There's also the arguement of skill allocation. 4 additional build points is not as easy at it seems. What happens after you eat a tome? Then the attribute cost more.
Inherent bonuses are calculated separately. remove all items, etc. and you are left with base scores plus any level attribute raises. Should be easy to figure out.
So its much easier just to do a reroll that covers it all if you can re-design the character from scratch.

>Are the reasons people give valid, or do they just like to constantly tweak their toons every way possible?

Both are valid reasons. Like I said before, what drives this game is character and builds. If you think character and builds are not important, then you're playing the wrong game.

Well, your examples don't fit well into the level respec discussion. I keep hearing that there are SO MANY people who need a class respec. Where are they? How many screwed up multiclassers with lots of tomes and bound items are out there that need a level respec?

[krud]

deleted

[Serpent]

Well, your examples don't fit well into the level respec discussion. I keep hearing that there are SO MANY people who need a class respec. Where are they? How many screwed up multiclassers with lots of tomes and bound items are out there that need a respec?

Well I have seen 5 posters in this thread and I know of at least 10 others who won't post because of all the people who trash their ideas. These are just ideas after all. Also I don't really hang with the entire server so from the few people I do know well that works out to be a large amount. Then there is Kargon's thread that also had a lot of people asking same thing. Lets be honest, a respec system to get rid of that level of fighter you thought was good idea but wasn't, won't break the game. A system to allow all those loved 28 point builds join the 32 point club won't hurt it either. Heck my main was holding tomes and enjoying raid loot before the favor implementation, should I reroll him no of course not but I would like teh option to see 32 points and I think it is worth looking into.

If we subtract Litany of the Dead 2 and 3 and that awful raid and put that time to a respec guess what we would have respeccing and we wouldn't miss those quests. And if you do well you are in the small minority on that one. But I think you are a smart player and see what I am saying. I'm not asking you to agree but simply consider what I am thinking.

[gpk]

I keep hearing that there are SO MANY people who need a class respec. Where are they? How many screwed up multiclassers with lots of tomes and bound items are out there that need a level respec?

As Serpent said, they don't come on the forums precisely because of the replies we've seen in this thread and countless others. So it's up to the suicidal loudmouths like Serpent, Riminy myself and others to try to "represent" them.

[Gornin]

Just a response to an earlier criticism of my post about my 2 28 point toons. You tell me how my toons are gimped. My cleric only has 1100 SP. I started him out with only a 14 wisdom. Figured by level 20 he would have at least an 18 maybe a 19 if I got lucky and found a tome. I listen to the other clerics in my guild and they have like 1500 SP. I have taken all the SP boost enhancements and both mental toughness. I think he has a 14 ST DEX, 12 CON, 14 INT and 12 CHA. I may be off a point or 2 but I am not on game atm. See, in PnP, My clerics can usually get right up there and wail away next to the fighter. I have good AC, decent to hit and help prevent the fighter from getting flanked. I was so wrong how this game was going to turn out. Can't hardly hit anything, barely can turn anything - give very good DV though. The reason he still gets played and has raid loot is guildies. They support my cleric because I am always willing to play him if everyone else wants to play a certain toon to get it a certain peice of raid loot. They keep me in scrolls, wands and Mnemonic pots, and they adjust their play style a little to accomodate. So yes he is successful with help. Be nice if I could redesign him to how this game is so he could be less dependent and more dependable.

The same pretty much goes for my Elven Wiz. I designed her to be a battle wizard. High dex for AC and ranged and some decent points in Str and Con. She only has 1045 SP. There are wizzies out there with 1500, so that is about 1/3, no? Same as above for why she still gets playtime and loot.


I am not asking for devs to devote time to this over content and bug fixes, but it honestly does not seem that a lot of time would be needed to do this. Some programmer will probably correct me as I am a hardware tech and only know enough programming to be dangerous. All that would need to be done is for the character to enter the creation screen and respec attributes with the new 32 point feature, choose initial feats and skills, then let him walk to each trainer and do the level ups until he is level maxed. The intel boost is the only real problem. I would probably lose some skill points on my cleric. Do like I said and drop the inherent bonuses at recreation, and create a bound tome that can't be used until level 10. Only a few will get the extra skill points that way. And once again with the inflation in this game, it won't make that much of a difference.

[Fallout]

Well, your examples don't fit well into the level respec discussion. I keep hearing that there are SO MANY people who need a class respec. Where are they? How many screwed up multiclassers with lots of tomes and bound items are out there that need a level respec?

Dude try search. Its your friend.

[krud]

There are many respec options laid out there, but not all are calling for a level respec system. Most respec options are along the lines of "I want to be able to rearrange some skill points or attributes", or "I want to be able to make my 28pt toon into a 32pt build without loosing bound gear and tomes". Quite a bit different than a level respec. In order to make this seem like a pressing issue some people are presenting worst case scenarios of how toons have been made gimp, yet when asked how, it's always "well, it's not my toons but I know a friend of a guildie who knows someone who needs the level respec". Is there an urgent need for people to respec class levels, or is it just people who are bored with their capped toons and don't want to bother starting over?

[krud]

some solutions: maybe should post in a different thread.

I would be for skill and attribute respec being a paid premium service. Why? Because it is much simpler to implement than a class respec, and it probably covers >90% of the reasons why people want a respec. A paid service is also equal for both power gamers and casual players alike. Casual gamers don't have the time to acquire the shards and plat to fix their mistakes, or the time to reroll or even discover their mistakes until it's too late.

Attribute respec would be the easiest. Just put them at the character build screen (add 4 pts for any 28pt who's reached 1750) and let them have at it. Any adjustment to Int that is going to increase/reduce the number of skill points you have to spend will require a skill respec too.

Skill respec: this is going to be more difficult. Based on how many ranks you currently have in your skills and your class makeup one should be able to figure out how many total in-class and cross-class skill points you have spent. This should more accurately account for attribute raises and tomes than simply assuming they were applied at level 1. You then allocate them accordingly (plus or minus any changes from attribute respec). I haven't figured out the math yet, but this might work. One concern is how to make sure one isn't able to concentrate his points in fewer skills than he normally could. Needs some more thought.

[MysticTheurge]

Based on how many ranks you currently have in your skills and your class makeup one should be able to figure out how many total in-class and cross-class skill points you have spent.

Unfortunately, no, there is no way to know that.

[krud]

Unfortunately, no, there is no way to know that.

Yep. I tried the math, but without knowing when any Int/tome raises where applied, it's next to impossible. And without any way to separate any one respec from another it looks like "No respec for you!". I still think allowing 4 build points to 28pt characters who reach 1750 favor can be done.

After thinking about the question "whats the big deal about a few skill points?" It can amount to the equivalent of one or more extra free feats. I have a 7rog/7ftr who could receive the equivalent of 2 or 3 skill focus feats if his tomes were applied from the start rather than at the level he actually used them.

[MysticTheurge]

After thinking about the question "whats the big deal about a few skill points?" It can amount to the equivalent of one or more extra free feats. I have a 7rog/7ftr who could receive the equivalent of 2 or 3 skill focus feats if his tomes were applied from the start rather than at the level he actually used them.

Well except extra skill points don't let you ignore the normal skill rank maximums.

[krud]

Well except extra skill points don't let you ignore the normal skill rank maximums.

true, but it allows one to achieve maximum in more skills than otherwise possible, or get away with fewer stat points of Int in order to achieve the desired ranks.

[Fallout]

An example of a need:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=128640

In his case, wasted a few weeks. If Turbine encourages this kind of system with no safety net (respec), no wonder casual games are dwindling.

[Gornin]

some solutions: maybe should post in a different thread.

I would be for skill and attribute respec being a paid premium service. Why? Because it is much simpler to implement than a class respec, and it probably covers >90% of the reasons why people want a respec. A paid service is also equal for both power gamers and casual players alike. Casual gamers don't have the time to acquire the shards and plat to fix their mistakes, or the time to reroll or even discover their mistakes until it's too late.

Attribute respec would be the easiest. Just put them at the character build screen (add 4 pts for any 28pt who's reached 1750) and let them have at it. Any adjustment to Int that is going to increase/reduce the number of skill points you have to spend will require a skill respec too.

Skill respec: this is going to be more difficult. Based on how many ranks you currently have in your skills and your class makeup one should be able to figure out how many total in-class and cross-class skill points you have spent. This should more accurately account for attribute raises and tomes than simply assuming they were applied at level 1. You then allocate them accordingly (plus or minus any changes from attribute respec). I haven't figured out the math yet, but this might work. One concern is how to make sure one isn't able to concentrate his points in fewer skills than he normally could. Needs some more thought.

Did you read my response to your questions about my toon? In fact I have run in a couple of groups with you in the past week. Guess what? I was playing my cleric on the one reaver run. Who died first and soon? Vargas, thats who.

Guess what I really want is a rebuild from ground up and take advantage of the 32 point builds and do him right. Won't be able to afford it if it is a premium or expensive in game option, so I don't like that idea. Like I have said before, all I want is to rebuild my toons better to fit the game. I will never have the time to be uber, and don't care to be, just want to be effective so my guildies don't have to pull my butt along.

[krud]

Did you read my response to your questions about my toon? In fact I have run in a couple of groups with you in the past week. Guess what? I was playing my cleric on the one reaver run. Who died first and soon? Vargas, thats who.

Guess what I really want is a rebuild from ground up and take advantage of the 32 point builds and do him right. Won't be able to afford it if it is a premium or expensive in game option, so I don't like that idea. Like I have said before, all I want is to rebuild my toons better to fit the game. I will never have the time to be uber, and don't care to be, just want to be effective so my guildies don't have to pull my butt along.

With the lack of documentation available that is a real easy thing to do, and I believe it is a very good reason for a respec option. I know plenty of casual gamers who really could use a respec, and will never run high end content enough to ever afford the plat or shards to earn a respec. However, getting a respec for free is just not going to happen. If it is a pay per use premium service (the going rate for char rename is $9.95) at least casual gamers (those who need the respecs the most) will have a chance. It doesn't have to cost an arm or a leg, but enough so someone has to be sure they want it before going ahead and respeccing every character they have.

However, I do see you have 4 capped (or at least max level) characters. That's a little more than casual. I play often and have only 2, with 2 more closing in. The casual gamers I know don't even have one.

[bellack]

It should not cost the players a thing. I did not know they were going to allow 32 point characters, along with many other changes and rewards that changed game play. I should not have to pay extra to gain access to things I already earned, or to allow my 28 point character to be respecced to a 32 point character, especially since that is the one I earned the 32 point favor with. It is already too costly to respec feats and enhancements, imo.

A total reroll is needed in this game, as per the thread Kargon started. I just want to to be able to reward my initial characters by allowing them to benefit from the rewards they earned. As for int tomes, I don't care if people get some extra skill points, with the inflation in this game it won't hardly matter.


And don't get me started on how much money people have in this game.

How about this. After every MAJOR change we should get one free total respect per game. But Races and Classes should not be allowed to be changed. Any other respec beyond the first should require an IN GAME charge. None of this having to pay real money to respect characters.

[Souless]

Ok, I haven't acctually read the entire post.....

However, I would like to put my 2 cents in....

A SKILL respec would be AWSOME! Mainly because I have been playing DDO from the begining AND have wasted skill points.....

A LEVEL respec would be AWSOME! I don't care if I can gain some perceved (real) advantage by leveling in a specific fashon (after I've read a +2 or +3 Int tome) and gain extra skill points. Or dropping that fighter level I took on my cleric. I don't care about pnp zealots who say this CAN"T be done. The ponit is: It can and should be done because the game has undergone some significant changes since day 1. What was SOP in the begining is now a "mistake". I would like to correct my errors....not delete them!

And that doesn't even consider non-transferable gear!

After completing over 20 dragon raids, 30 queen raids, 20 titan raids, and something like 15 reaver raids I don't want to loose MY bound gear! Deleting the toon is just not an option for me!

So please dev's put in a respec! ASAP!

the Bytcher~