The Intimidate Tank of the Future?

[maddmatt70]

Intimidate tanks are inefficient in the current game makeup and potentially boring to play, but if I were to make one this is what he would be. The gear is the problem. It is just not realistic to get this kind of gear in the current game unless you do 20 dragon, abbot, and titan runs which is 3 months or so.... I posted this despite the fact I will not be making it because maybe somebody else will and I am due for a good flaming.. If there are errors in my calcuations let me know..

Halfling
2 rogue/ 11 fighter / 1 barb (at level 15 fighter and then level 16 ?)

Best possible AC without buffs (53)
dex + 9 (delving suit + fighter arm mastery 3)
Armor + 10 (delving suit)
Size +1
Shield + 7 (sorrel +5 large shield)
Dodge +6 (chattering ring, chaosguard, feat)
Deflect +5 (+5 protection item)
Combat expertise +5
Starting +10
56 with barkskin pots

Stats:
S 12 (6) = 12 or 18 when swapping with haste.
D 18 (10) +3 (4, 8, 12) + 2 (favor tome) + 2 (halfling enhance) + 1 (rogue enhance) + 6 (+6 dex item) = 32
I 12 (4) +1 (+1 tome) = 13
W 8 + 6 = 14 (will be only 8 in mod6)
Co 14 (6) + 6 (+6 con item) = 20
Ch 14 (6) +6 (+6 charisma item)= 20

To Hit = +13 (ba) + 11 (dex) +1 (size) +1 (weapon focus pierce) – 5 (CE)= 21 +4 for gh = 25 gh + weapon.

Enhancements:
Fighter Armor Mastery 3 (12)
Fighter Toughness 3 (6)
Fighter Intimidate 3 (6)
Barb Sprint boost 1 (1)
Fighter Item Defense (1)
Barb Damage Red (1)
Rogue dex 1 (2)
Halfling dex 2 (6)
Halfling reflex 3 (6)
Halfling will 3 (6)
Halfling fort 2 (3)
Dragonmark of healing 3 (6)

Saves: (W) +3 (base class) +1 (halfling luck) +1 (bullheaded) +3 (halfling enhancements) + 2 wisdom (will be +5 after goes to mod 6) + 4 (resistance +4) + 2 (head of good fortune) = 16. with gh = 20
(F) +9 (base class)+ 5 (con item) + 2 (halfling enhancement) + 1 (halfling luck) + 4 (resistance +4)+ 2 (head of good fortune) = 22. with gh = 26
(R) + 6 (base class) + 11 (ab score) + 4 (resistance +4) + 3 (halfling enhancement) + 1 (halfling luck) +2 (head of good fortune) = 27. with gh = 31

HP: 20 (heroes vitality) + 10 (draconic vitality) + 70 ( +5 con)+ 144 (base Hp) + 44 (toughness) = 295.

Skills:
Intimidate: 17 (ranks) + 5 (charisma) + 2 (bullheaded) + 2 (head of good fortune) + 13 (item) + 3 (fighter intimidate 3) = 42
UMD will also be very high because first level will be rogue so max ranks, etc...
Balance/ Jump/ at least 1 rank of tumble / and maybe open locks?
Feats (11):
Bullheaded
Dodge
Combat Expertise
Improved Crit Piercing
Toughness
Weapon Finesse
Weapon Focus Piercing
Weapon Specialization Piercing
Least Dragonmark of Healing
Lesser Dragonmark of Healing
Greater Dragonmark of Healing

Ideal gear: (Note I plan to take force of personality in mod6 so I will swap out my wis item then so wis not included)
Superior Devotion VI Helm (ex. Silver Flame Abbot Reward) /Intimidate +13 helm
Head of Good Fortune
Circle of Hatred/Charisma +6 ring
Cloak of Charisma + 6/greater resistance cloaks
Con belt + 6
Neck of Protection + 5
Chattering Ring
ChaosGuard
+6 Dex Gloves/ +6 str gloves
Sandstorm Goggles
Gyrscopic Boots/ +6 dex boots/ madstone boots rage for clickies
Kundark Delving Suit
Sorrel
Wounding of puncturing rapier (yeah right )

Notes on gear: until I get the Kundark Delving suit, I would go with a mithral breastplate +5, mithral tower shield +5 and change the fighter armor master enhancement to tower shield enhancement 3 and try to get the daggertooth belt…

[Impaqt]

What exactly makes this more fun than other Intimitank Builds? 2-3 points of AC makes it more fun? DUnno.. I'm missing something...

You also have 6 Non FIghter feats. This build only has 5 available at l14
Are you COunting SF: Intimidate in your Intim calc? If so that would be 7.. DUnno where the +3 is coming from.....Ypour Breakdowns (Other than AC) are way too vague

[maddmatt70]

What exactly makes this more fun than other Intimitank Builds? 2-3 points of AC makes it more fun? DUnno.. I'm missing something...

You also have 6 Non FIghter feats. This build only has 5 available at l14
Are you COunting SF: Intimidate in your Intim calc? If so that would be 7.. DUnno where the +3 is coming from.....Ypour Breakdowns (Other than AC) are way too vague

I think i have cleaned it up sufficiently. I thought that I had taken out iron will oh well. The advantage over other intimitank builds is the evasion, the barbarian speed, and the halfling dragonmarks. Evasion is becoming more and more important in this game as casters dominate and aoe spells will have more of an impact.. The speed is a great feature and ensures the intimidate is in the front instead of following the zerging barbarians. The halfling dragonmarks are a great utility feature not unlike a lay on hands..

The saves are pretty good except for will which will go up when the next mod comes out...

[Impaqt]

OK, if Evasion=Fun then you win.

Personally, I dont find evasion all that exciting. No Fail CUre Wands + other Paly benefits are better in my opinion than a +10% speed increase (Your an Intimitank.. they Goal is to draw agro to you and remain stationary.. Base land speed is academic)

[maddmatt70]

halfling dragonmarks are very nice.. no concentration check and you don't have to pull a wand out etc.. There is something like 6 cure lights, 5 cure serious, and 4 heals all of which get devotion + 40% for this build. The umd should be pretty high +17 ranks +5 charisma +2 head of good fortune +4 gh = 28 + roll.

10% land increase is very nice in getting to the battle.. Lets face it the world is full of zergers - u might as well beat them to the battle..

[Tanka]

I'd have to do a smidge of testing, but I believe using a Dragonmark takes you out of CE, as a Dragonmark counts as a spell for all intents and purposes.

[maddmatt70]

I'd have to do a smidge of testing, but I believe using a Dragonmark takes you out of CE, as a Dragonmark counts as a spell for all intents and purposes.

hmm good point.. if so this build may have to be altered.. thanks...

[Riot]

interesting idea..... Not exactly what I'd call efficient.... But interesting.
10% run speed for one level of barb? Not worth it at all.

Evasion in this game is nice, but not necessary.
This build has an 18 STR?
Riott has a 28 (pre rage), this build will be ALOT more boring offensively.

It's an interesting idea. But it's obvious you don't play an intimitank often, if ever.

[apollojuly]

Do halflings have a size penalty to their intimidate skill?

[Riekan]

Yes, halfers get a size penalty to intimidate. I believe it is also doubled for Giants, so it would be very hard to actually hold agro with this build.

[Riot]

It's not that it's doubled...
It's -4 per each size category smaller than the target.

halfers are one size smaller than humans. Ergo -4 to Intimidate comparatively.

[Mhykke]

I don't understand the thoughts by some that playing an intimitank isn't "fun."

I think this comes from a misunderstanding of what you actually do. It's not as though any time there's any mob, you sit there and shield bash.

Playing an intimitank is extremely fun. As fun as a DPS barb, but for different reasons. Run past the first lvl of mobs, intimidate them, get to the back group, get sight aggro, kill away, rest of party blows up, kills alongside you without taking much damage. Someone else gets aggro that can't handle it, you hit intimidate, it's awesome seeing the mobs literally yanked in your direction, and then you beat them down. You don't just sit there shield blocking, hitting intimidate every 10s.

If you think the tradititional intimitank is boring, I would suggest you rethink your build. Low str, low damage, your only option will be to turtle up. You're not going to do much damage, and not going to keep much aggro, which, when you think about it, is opposite of your thought of fun.

[maddmatt70]

hmm.. Well you learn something new everday - that sucks that halflings get the -4 to intimidate... The barbarian speed is really nice, but it looks like you have to be a dwarf intimidate tank with alot of feats like riot's or at least a 11 fighter/2 rogue /1 barb mix in the above or some sort of pally/fighter combo which can utilize some of the other races. Really the best build will be when monk comes out if you will be able to make a monk with a high AC that is..

People assume that a dex base attacker can't do very good damage well they are incorrect as I regularly run with a player who always plays dex base characters and he has very nice dps/is near the top of the dps charts (he usually plays two weapon fighting rangers) - of course he is somewhat of a freakish player, but that is another story.

I never said that intimidate tanks were boring, but rather potentially boring as I have never played one. What they are is suboptimal right now..

[Mhykke]

hmm.. Well you learn something new everday - that sucks that halflings get the -4 to intimidate... The barbarian speed is really nice, but it looks like you have to be a dwarf intimidate tank with alot of feats like riot's or at least a 11 fighter/2 rogue /1 barb mix in the above or some sort of pally/fighter combo which can utilize some of the other races. Really the best build will be when monk comes out if you will be able to make a monk with a high AC that is..

People assume that a dex base attacker can't do very good damage well they are incorrect as I regularly run with a player who always plays dex base characters and he has very nice dps/is near the top of the dps charts (he usually plays two weapon fighting rangers) - of course he is somewhat of a freakish player, but that is another story.

I never said that intimidate tanks were boring, but rather potentially boring as I have never played one. What they are is suboptimal right now..

I didn't say dex based attackers can't DPS. An intimitank who has a low str generally won't be able to. Sword and board, low str, low damage. Your two weapon rngr example is drastically different than this build.


And suboptimal? How so?

[Strykersz]

I guess, compared to 1 barb w/intimidate and 5 rogues w/unlimited heal scrolls, an intimitank is suboptimal, but most of us aren't running like that. An intimitank provides value when healing is limited(or when dps exceeds healing per second).

In any case, optimum is overrated.

[maddmatt70]

[QUOTE=Mhykke;1451436]I didn't say dex based attackers can't DPS. An intimitank who has a low str generally won't be able to. Sword and board, low str, low damage. Your two weapon rngr example is drastically different than this build. [Quote]

hmm not sure i agree with you there but of course the specific weapon involved in sword and board is more critical. I posted a wounding pucturing rapier as an example. One of those can tear some mobs up...

And suboptimal? How so?

I have argued this all over the place in the forums with Borro, Riot and others. I agree with Shade regarding dps philosopy, but I would further add to his comments that healing is way overpowered (it can overcome anything really) and like candy such that do we really need a mana resource savior when you can drink a mana pot, use a heal scroll or healing wand...

[Riot]

Sub-Optimal?

Only if you have 2 or more clerics, maybe.

The thing with Intimitanks is you only "want" (notice I refairned from saying "need") ONE, in your group.
One intimitank in a group increases the groups performance greatly. ANYGROUP makeup will benefit from 1 Intimitank.

Having two, while fun, is a decrease in efficiency, However with some intimitank builds it's not drastic. Because "some" of the intimitanks can flip around and be pretty good DPS machines too.

Sub optimal? I just can't really fathom how you get that idea.
list any group makeup (without an Intimitank) and I'll show you how adding an intimitank will improve a groups performance.
Feel Free to leave out clerics if you wish as well.

[maddmatt70]

Do we have to hash this out again? While your busy intimidating, the dps party (you can't provide the dps of a two hander or two weapon melee so your less then optimal) is onto the next quest and looting those chests because quite frankly a couple of hits kill anything in the game other then a named boss. Ac mattered more in mod2 then it does now Barbarians have the speed advantage and dps right now which are the keys to the kingdom. Clerics and healing bards are broken in regards to healing right now.. yadda yadda.

Some parties that are optimum that I would include: Bard, 4 barbarians, and an arcane (note two weapon fighters or twf rangers could be subbed in there or the right rogues for barbarian). Bard, Barbarian, 4 casters. Barbarian, bard, cleric, 3 arcanes. Barb, cleric, 4 arcanes. 3 clerics and 3 arcanes or some mix of clerics and arcanes with a battle cleric preferred. Warforged party of barbarians and sorcerors (one of the sorc has a umd build for scrolls everybody has dw goggles only thing missing is fom)..

[Strykersz]

Why ever include a bard? A sorc might be justified for Fod and heal scroll usage(and making perma haste cheaper than pot spam) but a bard brings what to the table? And 3 clerics? Did you run out of sorcs?

edit: Did anyone else find it funny that he objects to using raid items in planning out a build, but thinks using multiple mana pots a quest is everyday play?

[Obitus]

Intimitanks are "sub-optimal" in the sense that they can't do the DPS of an offensive Barbarian, sure.

But by that logic, almost every build that attempts to have some measure of versatility is sub-optimal. In the ideal group situation, the theory goes that everyone will be as good as possible at one very specific role, but we all know that reality usually doesn't work like that.

I think it's probably true that the intimitank is losing importance as the level cap rises, but mostly because casters are coming more and more into their own. Yes, one-handed melee damage isn't what it once was (long ago, we used to swing faster, for one thing). Yes, a group that doesn't care about spending money can heal until the cows come home.

However, all of that said, a well-built Intimitank gives up very little (relative to an offensive Fighter if not an offensive Barb) in terms of damage potential for the ability to save party lives and resources by hitting that lovely little CE button. A couple of points of STR are unnoticeable when both builds pull out a two-hander and hit PA -- and anyone who argues differently isn't sane enough to argue with.

As with any other build discussion, it's all about trade offs. To me, an Intimitank is one of the more fun and more capable builds throughout the level range. No other build with which I'm familiar can carry a PuG as well as an Intimitank; even a Cleric can't heal incompetence, and I know from bitter experience that it gets old throwing platinum down the toilet.

There may be a price for versatility, but there's also a price for over-specialization, unless you have the perfect group of complementary builds online at all times to play with you.