Solid Dependable Rogue

[Kindoki]

I put this together to see if I could build a twf rogue that has all the necessary rogue skills, but still deals excellent damage. Ya know, what everyone is doing....

Let me know if there are terrible weaknesses that I can't live with...i.e. will I not be able to hit anything at level 14...not be able to open anything or disarm anything.... my saves or hp will doom me to die a constant death... etc.

Also, if you point out a weakness, I would appreciate a recommendation to repair it. I am not trying to min/max this, just make it not suck wind....

EDITED VERSION BASED ON FEEDBACK:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.75
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 14 Chaotic Good Elf Female
(14 Rogue)
Hit Points: 148
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 6
Reflex: 15
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 16 22
Constitution 12 14
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 11 12
Charisma 9 10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 5 21
Bluff 0 0
Concentration 1 2
Diplomacy 4 17
Disable Device 6 23
Haggle 0 0
Heal 1 1
Hide 7 23
Intimidate 0 0
Jump 7 22
Listen 1 3
Move Silently 7 23
Open Lock 7 27
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 4
Search 6 23
Spot 5 22
Swim 3 5
Tumble 5 8
Use Magic Device 4 17

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 2 (Rogue)

Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow

Level 4 (Rogue)

Level 5 (Rogue)

Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow

Level 7 (Rogue)

Level 8 (Rogue)

Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 10 (Rogue)

Level 11 (Rogue)

Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 13 (Rogue)

Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Acid Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber III
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Way of the Mechanic I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

ORIGINAL VERSION:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.75
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 14 Chaotic Good Elf Male
(14 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 104
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 4
Reflex: 15
Will: 4

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 14)
Strength             17                    21
Dexterity            17                    23
Constitution          9                    10
Intelligence         14                    16
Wisdom                9                    10
Charisma              9                    10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 14)
Balance               4                     6
Bluff                 4                    17
Concentration         0                     0
Diplomacy             4                    17
Disable Device        6                    24
Haggle                0                     0
Heal                  0                     0
Hide                  8                    23
Intimidate            0                     0
Jump                  6                    20
Listen                0                     2
Move Silently         8                    23
Open Lock             8                    27
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     5
Search                6                    24
Spot                  4                    21
Swim                  4                     5
Tumble                6                     8
Use Magic Device      4                    17

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 2 (Rogue)

Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Defense

Level 4 (Rogue)

Level 5 (Rogue)

Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow

Level 7 (Rogue)

Level 8 (Rogue)

Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 10 (Rogue)

Level 11 (Rogue)

Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow

Level 13 (Rogue)

Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Acid Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber III
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Way of the Mechanic I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

[bigj1608]

i'd say dont even do this.. start from scratch.. go drow, since you obviously have 32 points available and you're going elf.. drow outdoes elf as a rogue by far imo. your HP are way too low.. you have a high dex and str but no weapon finesse and you seem to be going for backstabbing and such so you wont need str all that much either way.. you can depend on your backstab/elemental/bursting damage or specialty weapons rather than dps coming from str.. also, i'd say to be a dependable rogue you need to have max rogue skills, which you dont have at all.. and, two weapon fighting? if you dont go beyond two weapon fighting, it is a complete waste because on that 3rd swing it only hits once and the 4th swing, again, it only hits once (without improved/greater twf) so thats wasted.. and also, you are wasting time with two weapon defense.. you probably wont get more than 40 ac without a shield and that wont do a thing for you once you get to gianthold.. or even elite threnal++ i'd say go drow, and if you want to know what i would do as a pure rogue with great combat capabilities, reply back, but otherwise, take this info and do with it what you wish

[CSFurious]

you will get crushed

i tried many rogue builds, drow & halfling

best roll yet, is my current 32-point dwarf 6rogue/1fighter, he is durable & can handle all rogue duties

[parvo]

I'm not convinced that TWF is needed or even desirable. A non-finesse Rogue should be fine with a shield. You don't need shield feat if you use one that has no armor check penalty. You'll have a better AC, you'll draw a little less aggro, but your damage will still be great. If you learn how to play him, you'll be fine there. I also think Pure Elf is a great way to go there.

That frees up three feats you can use. A lot of choices here. Toughness and Dodge might be two I'd go with for a combat rogue. If you'r going to take advantage of Elven Enhancement Bonus for Longsword, you might accentuate it with Weapon Focus Slashing, but I'm not sure you even need it. You have at least one feat to play with here.

For skills, I'd say for the average PUGGer, drop Bluff. It's difficult to use. You have to be facing the oppponent at close range, which is hard to do sometimes, and the action takes a full turn. Diplomacy works much better for a Rogue that will be mostly grouped. It's AoE, non-targeted. It sheds the aggro and you'll get your backstabs in. Max ranks in trapsmithing. No question here. Anything else and you leave yourself vulnerable as the game grows. That includes Spot, Search, Disable. If you think you know where every trap is, just wait until they more of the trap boxes. They've already committed to adjusting hard and elite traps to hit harder come mod 6.

Rogues are great. Enjoy yours and let us know how it works out.

[Kindoki]

So, let me give you a bit more behind my thinking, and then maybe we can figure out the best way forward - since HP seems to be a glaring weakness.

I went Elf instead of Drow merely because of longswords. I envisioned a true elven rogue with longsword/shortsword dual weapons. That is also why I went the strength route, since weapon finesse doesn't assist longswords. I kept the Dex high for AC and skills. I will have a 26 str and a 28 dex with +5 items and a +1 tome, or +6 items. While neither of those are maxed, I thought they would be sufficient.

I didn't go weapon finesse because of the aforementioned longswords, but also because I understand that weapon finesse doesn't add to damage, just to hit. I was boosting my to hit through enhancements, so I thought the extra strength could add a few points of damage to each hit.

My skills in disable and open are maxed from a rank level, and I went 'way of the mechanic' to boost them a bit more. The cost of adding two more points to each of them (up to enh IV) seemed to take a lot away from other things. I can't disable the cabal trap (or find it) but my dd/ol/search/spot will be in the low 40's (w/o my skill boost) which I think should cover most things in the game(?).

I just threw in the twf defense. Sounds like I should probably swap it out for toughness. The dragonmarks (invisibility and displacement) sounded like they could be pretty darn useful, situationally. I have twf and itwf planned at the moment. I figure to get gtwf at 15. That should make me pretty effective as a two weapon fighter.

If I add toughness instead of twf defense, take the helmet from necropolis that gives more toughness, and use a +20hp belt I have - I think that adds 56 hp to this build. A total of 160, which is exactly what my cleric has - and he doesn't get squished all that often...being a cleric helps of course...

Basically, this character will run in guild groups, though I don't want him to be a drag on PUG's, I figure that when he isn't powerful enough to keep up with the others in the group, then he won't be needed - they'll be killing everything anyways. When his combat would actually make a difference, then we will be moving slow enough to use his rogue skills to full effect, sneaking, diplomacy, all that.

As for UMD, I think it is high enough to use most items in the game, and cast a few scrolls. I may have trouble with raise dead and heal, but there should be enough scroll ability to be helpful in some ways. I haven't really looked heavily into this area.

Lastly, I don't have many weapons (my main being a cleric), so I didn't want to plan around a particular weapon set that I may never come up with. I was trying to build a character that would take advantage of whatever I came across. If I went the weapon finesse route, I would really be limiting myself.

So, that was my thinking...

BTW, other than dropping twf (it's the concept), I am open to most every other suggestion for improvement. Thanks for everything so far.

[Aesop]

I'd go drow Rapier and Shortsword myself as Drow have enhancments that affect both for to hit and damage. I might even take the Weapon Finesse for it drop take two of the points from Intelligence and put them into Con so you start witth an 11 Con. Drop Str by 2 raise Dex by 2... THis drops you 1 point of damage while increasing your to hit by 2 (if you go Weapon Finesse)... and that is without increasing Dex through Levels... though I'd probably put two into dex and 3 into Strength (by level 20 that is) It would maintain the ratio and you'd be down 2 damage while having an even higher to hit. The Drow Weapon Enhancments make up for this and the Crit Range of the Rapier will be a good benefit as well. Don't ignore your Charisma because UMD is your Friend and so to is Bluff and Diplomacy for Aggro managment.

That's me though ... you also will have the ability to grab Superior Two Weapon Fighting at level 20 (if you take level 20 as a Fighter level to get the Feat)

Just a couple suggestions there


Aesop


ps

as far as limited weapon sets... you'll have a high enough strength that you won't stink with non finesse weapons ... you'll just excel at finesse weapons. Rapier and Short Sword for Piercing. Sickle for Slashing (Hand Axe and Kukri at level 20), Light Mace and Light Hammers for Bludgeoning... no real worries there.

[CSFurious]

i think toughness is a poor feat for any pure rogue that is not a dwarf because you cannot enhance it; it would only add approx. 18 hitpoints to a pure non-dwarf rogue

bluff is good if you can get improved feint

I'm not convinced that TWF is needed or even desirable. A non-finesse Rogue should be fine with a shield. You don't need shield feat if you use one that has no armor check penalty. You'll have a better AC, you'll draw a little less aggro, but your damage will still be great. If you learn how to play him, you'll be fine there. I also think Pure Elf is a great way to go there.

That frees up three feats you can use. A lot of choices here. Toughness and Dodge might be two I'd go with for a combat rogue. If you'r going to take advantage of Elven Enhancement Bonus for Longsword, you might accentuate it with Weapon Focus Slashing, but I'm not sure you even need it. You have at least one feat to play with here.

For skills, I'd say for the average PUGGer, drop Bluff. It's difficult to use. You have to be facing the oppponent at close range, which is hard to do sometimes, and the action takes a full turn. Diplomacy works much better for a Rogue that will be mostly grouped. It's AoE, non-targeted. It sheds the aggro and you'll get your backstabs in. Max ranks in trapsmithing. No question here. Anything else and you leave yourself vulnerable as the game grows. That includes Spot, Search, Disable. If you think you know where every trap is, just wait until they more of the trap boxes. They've already committed to adjusting hard and elite traps to hit harder come mod 6.

Rogues are great. Enjoy yours and let us know how it works out.