Did i Gimp my Pally

[smodge13]

Lately i have been working on a halfling dragonmarked paladin evasion tank, this is my first defensive build and is my new favorite character, i have had a few compliments from people, and have recently started to reach top of the kill counts despite being a defensive build, anyway i recently hit something that annoyed me and made me worry about my paladin, on thelanis the other day there was a LFM Xorian Cypher Elite run, they were after 2 tanks in the range of 9-10, my paladin naturally went to join and i received a tell from the leader asking my hp, i told him i had 160 hp and was declined.

currently my paladin is Paladin7/Fighter1/Rogue1 and sitting unbuffed on 40AC, Selfbuffed i can hit 47 (and no i dont miss all the time i use +5 weapons and thanks to a pair of planar girds run with constant GH) but this made me wonder, my con isnt anything special (base 14) which is why i took a toughness feat and the enhancements to boost my health, this all has given me 160hp on level 9 which personally i considered not bad considering i'm wearing a mod fort item and have high AC, but i'm curious did i screw up?, is my halfling not good enough to claim to be a tank?, what sort of HP should i aim for by level 14, by looking at things i should hit around 250-300 by the time i hit 14 and have on all the nice items but is it worth it? have i missed a key benchmark in HP?

Anyway just after opinions should i reroll Tamn my paladin or just ignore this one event and think of them as powergaming jerks?

[Judo]

you did in fact gimp your pally

the reason why is simple

you're not me



but seriously...my main pally sits at 256 hp, at level 14...

i have a 50 base ac, and 4 loh's for 864

sounds like a solid build, and yes, it sounds like that xoriat cypher group was gimp

[Asirin]

Sounds like a elitist powergaming group leader to me, I avoid those guys like the plague. You were probably better off staying out of that group anyway.I do however feel that having Lay on Hands and full heals from the Dragonmark is a little redundant, personally i went with the regualr elven build paladin with Undying Call and the Displacement dragon mark.It comes in handy quite abit when i go two handed...send me a pm if yer interested ill give ya the build specs.

[Mhykke]

Sounds like a elitist powergaming group leader to me, I avoid those guys like the plague. You were probably better off staying out of that group anyway.I do however feel that having Lay on Hands and full heals from the Dragonmark is a little redundant, personally i went with the regualr elven build paladin with Undying Call and the Displacement dragon mark.It comes in handy quite abit when i go two handed...send me a pm if yer interested ill give ya the build specs.

Actually, I wouldn't be too sure about that.

Powergamers wouldn't be too worried about another tank's HP on xorian, on any difficulty. They'd think they're going to complete either way, and wouldn't be too worried about it.

It could just as easily be a group that isn't all that good, that thinks you need to play a certain way, and your party must be made up of a certain number of classes. They'd be too scared to deviate from their thinking.

[Dexxaan]

Actually, I wouldn't be too sure about that.

Powergamers wouldn't be too worried about another tank's HP on xorian, on any difficulty. They'd think they're going to complete either way, and wouldn't be too worried about it.

It could just as easily be a group that isn't all that good, that thinks you need to play a certain way, and your party must be made up of a certain number of classes. They'd be too scared to deviate from their thinking.

I agree completely...sounds more like ignorant Noobs than Powergamers....Powergamers wouldn't really need you in the first place... they're just sharing the wealth in most cases.

[Asirin]

Actually, I wouldn't be too sure about that.

Powergamers wouldn't be too worried about another tank's HP on xorian, on any difficulty. They'd think they're going to complete either way, and wouldn't be too worried about it.

It could just as easily be a group that isn't all that good, that thinks you need to play a certain way, and your party must be made up of a certain number of classes. They'd be too scared to deviate from their thinking.

Good point.

[Dexxaan]

You shouldn't worry much really for the HP's. if and when you hit L10 Pal 2 Fighter and 2 Rogue (I assume) you get some Raid loot and upper level Gear you should be able to have a monster AC, at which point even if you are scratching 300 HP's you won't need em like other "Tanks".

What are your Base stats (no gear)?
Do you have a 13 INT? so u can take CE feat soon?

If the answer is no on the INT, then I'd stop, reroll and put your starting low STR and no CE as an evaluation point.

Lemme know if I can assist you any other way. Tanks is what I build...neve ask me caster stuff...

[Judo]

i have no int on my pally...

dont listen to him smodge, its crazy talk

Combat expertise is not remotely necessary, no one says a good defensive build cant own kill counts too...160 hp at your level is fine, ac good too, dont reroll

[Dexxaan]

i have no int on my pally...

dont listen to him smodge, its crazy talk

Combat expertise is not remotely necessary, no one says a good defensive build cant own kill counts too...160 hp at your level is fine, ac good too, dont reroll

Listen to me "only" if you are truly interested in being a Pillar of a party. If your expectations are middle of the road have some fun and not be the absolute best at what I do....Judo is right...don't reroll.

On the other hand if you want to be on the top of your game, survive the unsurvivable and become a Soulstone Collector....get CE and start listening to Data...not opinions.

(Check Bruttus build I posted that in this same Forum and then take advice.)

[smodge13]

i'll post his stats as planned for 14 seeing as i have plenty of time with the servers down

Tamn
Paladin11/FTR1/Rogue2

Str 14 ---> 24 (+6 item, +1 tome, +3 level up)
Dex 13 ---> 22 ( +6 item (have ML 9 dex 6 boots atm thankyou grannybear, +1 tome, +2 enhancements)
Con 14 ----> 20
Int 12 ---> (+1 int tome eaten at level 1)
Wis 11
Cha 16 ---> 25 (+6 item, +1 tome, +2 enhancement)

Feats
1. Least dragonmark of healing
3. Toughness
3FTR. CE
6. Lesser dragonmark of healing
9. Greater dragonmark of healing
12. Imp Crit Slash

Skills
UMD maxed ranks
Intimidate Maxed ranks

[Asirin]

i'll post his stats as planned for 14 seeing as i have plenty of time with the servers down

Tamn
Paladin11/FTR1/Rogue2

Str 14 ---> 24 (+6 item, +1 tome, +3 level up)
Dex 13 ---> 22 ( +6 item (have ML 9 dex 6 boots atm thankyou grannybear, +1 tome, +2 enhancements)
Con 14 ----> 20
Int 12 ---> (+1 int tome eaten at level 1)
Wis 11
Cha 16 ---> 25 (+6 item, +1 tome, +2 enhancement)

Feats
1. Least dragonmark of healing
3. Toughness
3FTR. CE
6. Lesser dragonmark of healing
9. Greater dragonmark of healing
12. Imp Crit Slash

Skills
UMD maxed ranks
Intimidate Maxed ranks

Not sure what enhancements you have but i highly reccomend maxing out Paladin Toughness.Caala is sitting on 318 hp (without her GFL ring) because of them.Other than i personally think your base str was a little low the build looks fine...UMD IS a good thing.

[Jondallar]

I have a Halfling Paladin -10 Pally, 2 Rogue, 2 Fighter
316 hp with Con 16 (9, +1 tome, +6 item)
235 Mana , 3 LoH for 152pts
47 AC (including +5 Khopesh of Parrying), Self buffed to AC 54 (Def Fighting, Recitation, Barks Pot)
Feats: Toughness, Mental Toughness, Khopesh, Impr Crit Slash, Dodge
Str 28 (+3 Tome), Dex 24 (+1 tome), Con 16 (+1 tome), Wis 14 (+2 Favor tome), Int 10 (+1 tome), Cha 22 (+2 tome)

End Game is very fun/Do-able and I dont know many that would call any of my characters a gimp (besides my friends and guildies of course....because they know the truth, I am a gimp)

I am a power gamer, I enjoy this build. I have never excluded someone because of their build/stats. If some one sucks (game play, attitude, or lousy character...IE Sorc with 12 cha at endgame ect) I probably wont eagerly look to group with them. But of the 3 kinds of suckage (in my book anyways) its: people with bad attitudes and annoying chat habits go on a do not group with list, people with sub par gameplay need to be educated, and given time to gain experience, People with lousy builds will discover on their own that they should reroll (a truly gimped character is not fun 2 play, non min/max or optimized characters can be a blast to play)

[Twerpp]

Take some ranks in intimidate, maybe even blow a whole rogue level on them. With your pally cha, super saves, and high AC you can show them the meaning of the word Tank. Its when the most heavily armored person (you) gets all the aggro, takes very little or no damage, and the person doing the most DPS (usually squishy sorc) takes no aggro, and the clerics job is extremely easy, even easier since you self heal so well.

[Aeneas]

Take some ranks in intimidate, maybe even blow a whole rogue level on them. With your pally cha, super saves, and high AC you can show them the meaning of the word Tank. Its when the most heavily armored person (you) gets all the aggro, takes very little or no damage, and the person doing the most DPS (usually squishy sorc) takes no aggro, and the clerics job is extremely easy, even easier since you self heal so well.

QFTGHT (quoted for the god's honest truth)

Intimidate, (and for that matter diplo) are highly underutilized as most players are never taught the importance of skill based aggro management.

[Blazer]

Anyway just after opinions should i reroll Tamn my paladin or just ignore this one event and think of them as powergaming jerks?

Don't reroll, if you are having fun with your character then eff them and their opinions. Were they powergaming jerks? Perhaps, who's to say. I would guess that they were among the group of people who figure that unless you can hit a super high AC for elite "endgame" quests, then AC doesn't matter at any level which is grossly inaccurate. If you're hitting 47 AC with 160 HP I'm guessing your HP will last longer than the 250 HP 22 AC character of the same level.

[bandyman1]

Don't reroll, if you are having fun with your character then eff them and their opinions. Were they powergaming jerks? Perhaps, who's to say. I would guess that they were among the group of people who figure that unless you can hit a super high AC for elite "endgame" quests, then AC doesn't matter at any level which is grossly inaccurate. If you're hitting 47 AC with 160 HP I'm guessing your HP will last longer than the 250 HP 22 AC character of the same level.

QFT

I all honesty, 300 Hps and 50+ AC is great on a pally at lvl 14 ( especially with the saves on a halfling pally + evasion ). Anyone who tells you otherwise is clueless or has never ran anything other than a 400+ HP, **** AC Dwarven melee.

[Sutek]

If you're hitting 47 AC with 160 HP I'm guessing your HP will last longer than the 250 HP 22 AC character of the same level.

Not if the 22AC 250HP Barbarian is killing everything before it can swing it's sword.

[Blazer]

Not if the 22AC 250HP Barbarian is killing everything before it can swing it's sword.

Perhaps, but depending on feat selection and enhancement distribution, the lvl 9ish barb can be a bit behind the DPS curve (remember, no GTWF or GTHF yet). Plus, without access to the top end rage enhancements or Critical Rage I/II, the true DPS power of a barb has yet to be realized. And, unless you've already gone to BAM to get your necklace, you're not likely to be 100% fortified (unless you got some RR gear or are wearing a robe), thus making crit confirmation far easier on the 22 AC barb than the 47 AC character discussed here. The barb also doesn't have the massive amount of HP that the lvl 13-14 barbs have making them the wrecking crews they are in GH or the Orchard. A few raging Trolls or Ogres can and have taken down those 22 AC 250 HP barbs pretty quickly, especially if there are any enemy casters around tossing out stuff like Searing Light.

Don't get me wrong, barbs rule the roost by lvl 12+. Until then however, they can still be the mana sinks they were back in Mod 1-2 unless they're either 1) twinked to high heaven or, 2) controlled by a good player.

[Mithran]

I think the cutoff from the men to the boys at level 14 is 300 hit points, but dwarves go a lot higher.

I agree with some of the posts here that have suggested that you go with what feels right, and not worry about the opinions of other players.

It's amazing to me that so many groups advertise the need for a tank, and list only fighters and barbarians as meeting their definition of a 'tank.'

Paladins rock.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Agreed... my Holy Avenger sits at 330 HP now, and I would agree that 300 is a much more "comfortable" number for a 'tank'... and all too often I see LFM's up saying "Tanks Needed" or "DPS Needed", listing Fighters & Barbs only... what a shame.... I pack 28 STR w/ Power Attack, Divine Favor, and a +5 Flaming Adamantine Kopesh of Righteousness.... that is DPS (Obviously not SoS DPS, but pretty darn good DPS for Sword and Board)... and as soon as the cap hits 16 I will be at 30 STR (32 if I can get a +3 Tome! ). Add on to that fact that I carry Heal Scrolls for myself (and the party when needed) and Raise Dead... any group that understood that would take me in a heartbeat!

People need to realize that Paladins can "Tanks" or "DPS", just like Fighters and Barbarians can.