Fleeced

[Aranticus]

i was on my bard running the reaver raid today. a +3 con tome dropped for me and i auctioned it. the highest bidder (a bard) got it with a bid of a full set of tome pieces and 100k pp and the tome was promptly transferred to him. once outside, a trade window came out with 2 tomes (both same), no plat. i rejected it saying we agreed a full set and he stated he only agreed all his tomes. and before i could reply, he logged off and logged in another toon. i sent tells to a guildie of his, who was in the same raid, to help me ask him to complete his part of the deal. at the same time i saw a barb guildie running circles infront of me which i later found out from a friend that its his alt. one hour after the raid, during which i sent tells to some of his guildies, the entire guild either when annon or logged. i suspect this is yet another cheat....

as of now, i have only recieved 1 tome piece, supposely from another alt of his.

mr bard, if you are reading this, you have an obligation to fulfill.

to kyberians, if you want to know his identity, pm me

[Frzblaster]

Thus another reason why my guild runs with "No trading expect for raid item for raid item" ruling. Seriously hope you get your rightful items there Aranticus. Its a matter of principal now

[Ninety]

I'll definitely put him on my do not group with list, as well as spread the word to do the same with all the people I run with.

[Aspenor]

I'll definitely put him on my do not group with list, as well as spread the word to do the same with all the people I run with.

ditto.

That's ridiculous.

Then again, I'm never offering any tomes for trade in a raid. I'm eating them.

[Aranticus]

Frzblaster, i've had trades and traded raid loot items and all the previous players have been honorable and trusting. just 2 hrs after that incident, i traded in the napkin but as i did not have sufficient plat on me, i told that player to wait while i log my other toon. trade was completed and both were happy. i'm not angry abt the lost of loot but more for the fact that most of the players who knew of this incident suspected that he did not even live up to his claims. the other bidders would be angry as well as their true bids lost to a fake. but one thing you are right, its now a matter of principle.

Aspenor, that toon in question is my hagglebot and thus did not need the tome (cept +3 cha) and hence it would be a waste. win-win situation for me at that time was to trade it to someone who need it and i get something in return.

to all, thanks for the support. thanks to the people in game who tried to help make my day better. you guys (excluding the offender) are what make ddo special.... we are like a group in the alcoholic annon, supporting each other.

just an update on the issue. the offender is no longer a member of the guild he was in. an officer of his guild contacted me and helped me to reach him. apparently, he squelched me and went annon (together with his friend which was in the same guild) during the time i was online. it is not known if he was dismissed from the guild or he quit. but confirmed hes guildless at the moment for he seeked to join another guild as an officer of that guild informed me during a pug dragon raid

[EdsanDarkbane]

Anything i can do to help i will shug.

Give shugar a fair shake on the trade anonymous bard.

[nbhs275]

i was on my bard running the reaver raid today. a +3 con tome dropped for me and i auctioned it. the highest bidder (a bard) got it with a bid of a full set of tome pieces and 100k pp and the tome was promptly transferred to him. once outside, a trade window came out with 2 tomes (both same), no plat. i rejected it saying we agreed a full set and he stated he only agreed all his tomes. and before i could reply, he logged off and logged in another toon. i sent tells to a guildie of his, who was in the same raid, to help me ask him to complete his part of the deal. at the same time i saw a barb guildie running circles infront of me which i later found out from a friend that its his alt. one hour after the raid, during which i sent tells to some of his guildies, the entire guild either when annon or logged. i suspect this is yet another cheat....

as of now, i have only recieved 1 tome piece, supposely from another alt of his.

mr bard, if you are reading this, you have an obligation to fulfill.

to kyberians, if you want to know his identity, pm me

Ok, heres the real story.

First, he didnt come into the main chamber, died, and basically got 4 free chests. Next, i was the only bidder on the tome. Third, what i offered him was 400k plat and All the tome pieces i have, NOT all the tome pieces aka 1-8. He then responded that he only wanted 100k plat and the tome pieces. He never specified before he sent it over that he wanted all pieces 1-8, because i would of had to decline.

Second, when i got outside i gave him the 2 tome pieces i had on that character, and the 100k plat. I sent one piece i had on another mule, and logged off before checking another mule that had another piece(which i also have sent him now) because of a series of threatening tell he sent to my friend over this.

So now i gave him what i told him i would, and because of how harshly he has skewed the story for posting here and how he treated my guild member, i dont think ill further sate his greed. IF he had been good about it, I would try and rectify it with more plat or something else we could agree on. But because he couldnt remain civil long enough for me to get him what i offered him, he wont get anything more.

[nbhs275]

Frzblaster, i've had trades and traded raid loot items and all the previous players have been honorable and trusting. just 2 hrs after that incident, i traded in the napkin but as i did not have sufficient plat on me, i told that player to wait while i log my other toon. trade was completed and both were happy. i'm not angry abt the lost of loot but more for the fact that most of the players who knew of this incident suspected that he did not even live up to his claims. the other bidders would be angry as well as their true bids lost to a fake. but one thing you are right, its now a matter of principle.

Aspenor, that toon in question is my hagglebot and thus did not need the tome (cept +3 cha) and hence it would be a waste. win-win situation for me at that time was to trade it to someone who need it and i get something in return.

to all, thanks for the support. thanks to the people in game who tried to help make my day better. you guys (excluding the offender) are what make ddo special.... we are like a group in the alcoholic annon, supporting each other.

just an update on the issue. the offender is no longer a member of the guild he was in. an officer of his guild contacted me and helped me to reach him. apparently, he squelched me and went annon (together with his friend which was in the same guild) during the time i was online. it is not known if he was dismissed from the guild or he quit. but confirmed hes guildless at the moment for he seeked to join another guild as an officer of that guild informed me during a pug dragon raid

This would have to be a lie, seeing i have not even logged back to my bard yet, and all of my toons are officers in their respective guilds. My friend didnt go anon, he changed characters to stop your threatening tells. Dont drag him into this. Also, you may of been talking to the leader of "the free companions" in which case, i did ask how you might join them, but never said i was planning on joining them. Noone helped you to reach me, as i wasnt logged on much later then sending the first piece from my mule.

Edit: Also, im not going to squelch or annon on you, because i know that i completed my end of the bargain, and am not afraid of your harrasment. Just because you didnt read what i wrote and thought you where going to get more then i promised, is no reason to both lie on the forums and harrass my guildmate. And as i said, if you had acted civil and waited, i would of given you what i promised, and given you something else to make it seem somehow more "fair" to you.

[Aspenor]

Hehe and the other side of the story....
/munches popcorn

[Strakeln]

Hehe and the other side of the story....
/munches popcorn

Khyber is on FIRE! WOOT!

[Nefahrin]

This is what happens when people get greedy.
In my guild, if we can't use a raid item, we put it up for a roll amongst those that can use.
I personally find it in poor taste when someone tries to get the world for a bound raid item.

There are two people in this story that I don't want to group with, the Greedy bugger who
says " I can't use it, What'll you give me for it?", and the person that doesn't follow through on
a trade.

With that said, if what the second poster said about it being a miss communication is true, I'm
more inclined to avoid grouping with the Greedy SOB.

[Fennario]

Maybe you should have specified how many tome pieces you had? I could see where saying, "I'll give you all my tome pieces bro" could be mistaken for, "I'll give you all the tome pieces bro." I don't know as I wasn't there, but something sounds shady. I would have went out of my way to make it clear that I had 3 or 4 tome pieces to offer.

First, he didnt come into the main chamber, died, and basically got 4 free chests.

Not sure why this is important. Pretty much anyone who isn't a caster, a healer, or tanking big and ugly gets 4 free chests on most of the Reaver raids I've been on.

[nbhs275]

Maybe you should have specified how many tome pieces you had? I could see where saying, "I'll give you all my tome pieces bro" could be mistaken for, "I'll give you all the tome pieces bro." I don't know as I wasn't there, but something sounds shady. I would have went out of my way to make it clear that I had 3 or 4 tome pieces to offer.



Not sure why this is important. Pretty much anyone who isn't a caster, a healer, or tanking big and ugly gets 4 free chests on most of the Reaver raids I've been on.

true, though it depends, i have had fighters who get charges and run around cursing ellies, making them easy fodder for casters, of fighters with WoP taking out ellies at breakneck speed. I have also seen those fighters who just stand against the back wall for a smoke.

Either way i think we , fortina and I, have settled this.

[Aranticus]

couple of clarifications

i rejected the tomes and plat as i wanted it all in one shot. this would make things much simple. i came here only 1+ hr after the said event and even updated it accordingly. i had stated that i'll wait at the bank. you could have sent a tell to me, prolly an oversight on both sides here

i did not threaten your friend, i asked him to help me pass the message and if he took offense to that, i apologise.

you are not the only bidder, there were 2 others and i do not encourage excessive bidding by telling the bidders what the outstanding bid is. you can say that i tendered my loot out. if i were that greedy, i'd just keep posting the most favorable bid to start a war.

did i get 4 chests free? in a way yes i did. however, it wasnt also mentioned that i lagged just before they ran out and when my connection came back i was in the dead room. even when i was in there i also attempted to snap. if i really had wanted a free ride, i'd have simply waited for the anti magic to come so i can go to the blue door.

Nefahrin, please get your facts right. my bard CAN use the tome. he had not taken any con tomes at all. i have given away raid loot before. stuff that i am NOT likely to use. last week i gave away the delving suit and treason. i could have auctioned it away but i did not.

update on the situation:

a new deal was made. since nbhs275 has only 4 pieces and not what he claimed, we settled on a total of 8 pieces and 150k pp. i have recieved 4 tomes and the play. the other 4 will be sent to me as and when he gets them.

[bobbysmooth]

I have read all the posts regarding this matter and come to the conclusion you are both knuckleheads. First thing, trading raid loot in pugs is very risky to say the least. Accepting the terms " all the tomes i have " is absurd on your part. If you conduct your daily life like this i will by your car for all the money i have in my right pocket, no wait my left pocket you choose. Not very smart. Secondly if your the sneaky one who said I will trade you " all the tomes I have " you are quilty as well. This is a trick people use on some who are either too trusting or not very bright to try to GET OVER on them. Do you want the money in my right or left pocket. You were unclear on your offer. Did you do this on purpose? After reading YOUR post and the way you clearly state thats what YOU said,I would have to say yea, you did it on purpose, for the purpose, of getting over. You both should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Staedtler]

This thread is worthless without chat logs.

[Ghoste]

This thread is worthless without chat logs.

Good point. Anyone take screenies?

/sits back down and continues munching popcorn.

[Nefahrin]

Nefahrin, please get your facts right. my bard CAN use the tome. he had not taken any con tomes at all. i have given away raid loot before. stuff that i am NOT likely to use. last week i gave away the delving suit and treason. i could have auctioned it away but i did not.

It doesn't matter, The way this reads, Greed was the motivation. If you can use it, then why not use? Simple. Greed.
Glad I've got your name, as I know another to avoid in groups.

That's why in my guild, we won't let people make deals like this. It's also these types of actions that make people despise PUGs,
and avoid them like the Plague.

[Staedtler]

It doesn't matter, The way this reads, Greed was the motivation. If you can use it, then why not use? Simple. Greed.
Glad I've got your name, as I know another to avoid in groups.

That's why in my guild, we won't let people make deals like this. It's also these types of actions that make people despise PUGs,
and avoid them like the Plague.

He's already explained why he didn't use the tome: the character is a hagglebot. I see using a tome that will give no benefit to the character to be an act of larger greed.

Also, you appear to have mind reading skills. Does this mean psionics have been introduced to DDO?

[Hakushi]

I have read all the posts regarding this matter and come to the conclusion you are both knuckleheads. First thing, trading raid loot in pugs is very risky to say the least. Accepting the terms " all the tomes i have " is absurd on your part. If you conduct your daily life like this i will by your car for all the money i have in my right pocket, no wait my left pocket you choose. Not very smart. Secondly if your the sneaky one who said I will trade you " all the tomes I have " you are quilty as well. This is a trick people use on some who are either too trusting or not very bright to try to GET OVER on them. Do you want the money in my right or left pocket. You were unclear on your offer. Did you do this on purpose? After reading YOUR post and the way you clearly state thats what YOU said,I would have to say yea, you did it on purpose, for the purpose, of getting over. You both should be ashamed of yourselves.

QFT

My personnal opinion on the matter, I would just start to thanks Turbine for such a great way to distribute the raid loot, but that's mostly off topic. I personally think it's bad to trade raid loot and I personally never trade my raid loot assigned to me. If I don't need it, I put a line and the other people in the raid roll for it, for free, I do not ask and do not want anything in return, that loot could have been assigned to anyone else. In the current situation, he should just have put a line for others to roll for it, or just use it, more hps and better saves is good for everyone, no matter who.

I've given away raid loots assigned to me regularly and I never objected to anyone using a tome they got in their chest, either the wizard with a str or con tome, or a fighter with a wis tome, I'm happy for them and their good roll on the loot, and type in the chat a big "Congrats" with a smilie. If I'm in a raid and a good tome drops, and it would be good for me, I would like to roll, but if it's auctionned, I will never bid because I disagree with that, but that's me, and that opinion does not include anyone else.

Another point, in some way, we all have 4 free chests in the raid, but the loot is not based on participation, but on completion. Who we are to decide who participated enough, not enough or what else. The system allows 12 people, and the quest dosn't require 12 people, the chances of raid loot is much higher with a high amount of people, but each person in the raid have the same chances of raid loot assigned to them, no matter the number of people, it's the total group who gets more chances then more chances to have one reassigned.

But that brings to an essential point, when doing trades, if it's not completely clear on both sides, it's an open door to problems, and when doing trades like that, a trusted person by both sides to be the third in the trade and "moderate" it is always the best choice, nobody will scam someone else when a friend or trusted person is helping by moderating the trade. The person should be neutral or a friend to both sides. No hard feelings on both sides, I wouldn't have any problems to team and raid with each or both of you at any moment, but I see this as a consequence of the oh so great loot system we have.

To finish, I'm glad both sides have come to an agreement and sorted it out, a good discussion is always the best way to solve things and avoid more problems.