Negative levels don't add up

[Spookydodger]

So I was hit for 2 negative levels.

Now, from what I can gather about negative levels, is that they apply the following, per negative level: "-1 attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks; loss of 5 hit points; and -1 to effective level"

Now, from what I can see. Negative levels apply -2 to saves per negative level. About that much to attack rolls and skill checks.

Additionally, I had 144 hitpoints maximum. I took 2 negative levels and was at 116 maximum. That's 28 hitpoints, or 14 hitpoints per negative level!

Am I missing something here? And I'm wondering if the NPCs take these penalties or not from our enervations and such.

[Shade]

Nope thats how it works. And yes enemies take the same penalties. Enervates pretty powerful.

Solution: Load up deathward or be a warforged.

[brshelton]

you lsoe the hp for beign lvl 13 not lvl 14...

[Ziggy]

whats your con score and what class are you?

[MysticTheurge]

Now, from what I can gather about negative levels, is that they apply the following, per negative level: "-1 attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks; loss of 5 hit points; and -1 to effective level"

Now, from what I can see. Negative levels apply -2 to saves per negative level. About that much to attack rolls and skill checks.

D&D applies the first set of penalties you've listed. DDO applies the second.

Additionally, I had 144 hitpoints maximum. I took 2 negative levels and was at 116 maximum. That's 28 hitpoints, or 14 hitpoints per negative level!

Instead of removing one spell or 5 hit points, DDO reduces you a number of spell points or hit points as if you were actually one level lower.

In the cast of hit points this means you'll lose a number equal to your Con modifier plus the number of base hit points you get each level from your class. I think it actually tracks which level you're losing if you've multiclassed, but I could be wrong. I also think that it doesn't reduce HPs granted by Toughness, but I could also be wrong on that.

[Spookydodger]

Shade, please. I wasn't asking how to prevent it. I know what deathward, deathblock, and the silver flame series of necklaces do. The topic wasn't on how to prevent it, it was nt the the damage, it was that the damage seemed wrong. How can we stay on topic when the first reply makes a right-hand turn?

D&D applies the first set of penalties you've listed. DDO applies the second.



Instead of removing one spell or 5 hit points, DDO reduces you a number of spell points or hit points as if you were actually one level lower.

In the cast of hit points this means you'll lose a number equal to your Con modifier plus the number of base hit points you get each level from your class. I think it actually tracks which level you're losing if you've multiclassed, but I could be wrong. I also think that it doesn't reduce HPs granted by Toughness, but I could also be wrong on that.

Either way, then this is wrong, as far as I understand. As I said, I lost 14 hitpoints per level. My Con modifier is 2, and for being sorcerer, you get 4 hitpoints. So, theoretically, I should have lost 8 hitpoints per level, not 14. I don't have any of the hitpoint granting feats, as far as I can remember. I'll do some testing in the tavern. However, any of that testing might be moot as who knows if the version of negative damage we are wielding is *actually* the same as theirs. I hit a fire elemental with enervate, in inferno of the damned normal (a level 14 quest), 3 times. So at worst I did 3 negative levels to him. Even after being cursed once and enervated twice, he still saved like crazy. If they take the same penalties, then at best it had -10 to saves (-2x3 for enervate, -4 for curse). Saving against a dc 31 dancing sphere 3 times in a row seems unlikely, though not impossible.

We've been seeing a lot of "whoops, somehow that was broken" events recently. This is just one that always seemed weird.

As for the spell points, I wasn't even delving into that. If it was determined that the hitpoint decrease was wrong, then perhaps the spell point decrease could be looked at more in depth.

[MysticTheurge]

Either way, then this is wrong, as far as I understand. As I said, I lost 14 hitpoints per level. My Con modifier is 2, and for being sorcerer, you get 4 hitpoints. So, theoretically, I should have lost 8 hitpoints per level, not 14. I don't have any of the hitpoint granting feats, as far as I can remember.

Well a sorcerer 14 with a 14 constitution would have (4 * 14 class) + (2 * 14 con) + (20 base) = 104 hit points, so you must be getting 40 from some place else to have 144. What, out of curiosity, were those from?

[ShadowFox1978]

Well a sorcerer 14 with a 14 constitution would have (4 * 14 class) + (2 * 14 con) + (20 base) = 104 hit points, so you must be getting 40 from some place else to have 144. What, out of curiosity, were those from?

As a guess, I would say Argo favor and a G false life item.

[MysticTheurge]

As a guess, I would say Argo favor and a G false life item.

Ah, that would add up.

Yeah, that doesn't seem right then (if that's the case).

[Spookydodger]

Well, let's see.

20 hitpoints (Heroic Toughness)
56 hitpoints (14x4 Sorcerer hitpoints)
28 hitpoints (con 15 (2 * 14))
10 hitpoints (Argonessan Favor "Draconic Vitality" feat)
30 hitpoints (Greater False Life)
--------------------------------
144 Total hitpoints.

My base Constitution is 10, with a +5 con item.

So if it took 5 hitpoints per level, I would have been at 134.
If it's based on class and con, would lose 8 (4 class + 4 con bonus) per level, for 128
I was at 116.

[underlordone]

what i dont get is. IF u are multie class lets say fighter 4 barb 2 for say it hits both so u lose like 2 on a -1. Or this 4 wiz 2 clr for say u will see both timers for spells go down.

[ChaosTheEternal]

Either way, then this is wrong, as far as I understand. As I said, I lost 14 hitpoints per level. My Con modifier is 2, and for being sorcerer, you get 4 hitpoints. So, theoretically, I should have lost 8 hitpoints per level, not 14.

At a level, you would gain 6 hit points per level (4 for being a Sorc, 2 for your Con bonus).

Assuming the penalties are doubled, which appears to be the case, and the loss is based off of your HD and your Con bonus, you should have lost 12 hit points per negative level. But there's two extra points coming off somewhere... just where?

[Strakeln]

The OP is saying that the effects don't go with the description.

Here is a screenie of my barbarian with a -14 will save. I don't remember my standing will save, but it is > 0.

*If* the description is -1 to saves per neg level, shouldn't I already be dead (due to more than -14 levels)?

[Strakeln]

what i dont get is. IF u are multie class lets say fighter 4 barb 2 for say it hits both so u lose like 2 on a -1.

Perhaps this is the issue? The barbarian pictured is multi'd.

[Spookydodger]

*If* the description is -1 to saves per neg level, shouldn't I already be dead (due to more than -14 levels)?

You only die from your Constitution going to zero, nothing else.

Your other stats can go to 0 and you are helpless.

Your saves can go below zero infinitely excepting that something else doesn't kill you at that point (like your Con)

[Spookydodger]

At a level, you would gain 6 hit points per level (4 for being a Sorc, 2 for your Con bonus).

Assuming the penalties are doubled, which appears to be the case, and the loss is based off of your HD and your Con bonus, you should have lost 12 hit points per negative level. But there's two extra points coming off somewhere... just where?

Yes, my bad. It should be -6 per level, not -8. That would put me at -12 total. Which should have left me at 132 max.

[Strakeln]

For some reason I assumed that you could be neg-level'd to death... from phrasing ppl used in PvP. I guess what they really did was con-damage them to death.

[ChaosTheEternal]

You only die from your Constitution going to zero...

... or if you get as many (or more) negative levels as you have levels. That was the point of Strakeln's post.

[Spookydodger]

... or if you get as many (or more) negative levels as you have levels. That was the point of Strakeln's post.

Yes, having as many negative levels as you do levels kills you, too.

It's really impossible to tell what should or did happen to him without knowing how many negative levels he got.

[MysticTheurge]

The OP is saying that the effects don't go with the description.

Is that what the in-game description says? What's it say when you hover over the negative level icon?