Favored Enemy Bonuses

[Shade]

Exactly, how do rangers favored enemy bonuses work in DDO?

Favored Enemy (Ex) At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. The ranger gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.
At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy from those given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 2.
If the ranger chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table. If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the ranger’s bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher.

Now the in game DDO description doesn't say a thing, so I would hope/assume it works the same..
Yet that can be confusing. How I think it works in PnP: You gain +2 dmg/etc versus the first target your select at level1, at level5 you select a new target and gain +2 vs that type, but also the level1 version improves to +4. At 10 this increase again, given +6 to the first one, +4 to the second one and +2 to a new one.. Then at level15: +8 1st, +6 2nd, +4 3rd, +2 4th.

Does it work like this in DDO? I'd assume not since the order in which you selected them is not even listed in your character sheet. From what I can guess from my rolls, it seems the improved bonus stacks and applies equally to all favored enemies,, meaning +6 dmg to all 3 at level14.. And 15 we will have +8 to all 4, very powerful indeed. But I'm not sure on this.

The other thing is the skill bonuses - are they implemented/do they function correctly? I'd gather this could be tested for bluff easy enough, but the other would prove more difficult.

[Slayer918]

I believe in PNP it was +2 to all your "base" favored enemy and then anytime you acquired a new one you got an extra +2 to put on any favored enemy of your choice (so at level 5 you could have +2 on your first and +4 on your second or vice versa) I think anyways (not a pnp expert or anything)

In DDO however your favored enemies all scale up at each increment (+2 at one, +4 for both at 5, +6 for all three at 10 etc...) so currently rangers can get +10 to damage against all FE (+6 +4 enhancement) and should be able to get +12-13 at level 15 (+8 +4-5 enhancement)

Come to think of it depending on how the new ranger enhancements are inplemented a rangers +7 damage over a fighter (fighters at +2 from str and +4 feat, rangers at +8 FE +4 enhancements +1 Ram's Might...) when they have 4 favored enemies depending on variety in mod 6 quests... (rangers can hit some pretty nice AC's too)

[ShadowFox1978]

Ram's is +2 to str and damage, so make that +8.

[Soul-Shaker]

Exactly, how do rangers favored enemy bonuses work in DDO?



Now the in game DDO description doesn't say a thing, so I would hope/assume it works the same..
Yet that can be confusing. How I think it works in PnP: You gain +2 dmg/etc versus the first target your select at level1, at level5 you select a new target and gain +2 vs that type, but also the level1 version improves to +4. At 10 this increase again, given +6 to the first one, +4 to the second one and +2 to a new one.. Then at level15: +8 1st, +6 2nd, +4 3rd, +2 4th.

Does it work like this in DDO? I'd assume not since the order in which you selected them is not even listed in your character sheet. From what I can guess from my rolls, it seems the improved bonus stacks and applies equally to all favored enemies,, meaning +6 dmg to all 3 at level14.. And 15 we will have +8 to all 4, very powerful indeed. But I'm not sure on this.

The other thing is the skill bonuses - are they implemented/do they function correctly? I'd gather this could be tested for bluff easy enough, but the other would prove more difficult.

They arent implemented anything like PnP. +2 dmg per favorite enemy at the same dmg for all your favorite enemies. No skill or other bonuses like pnp, just dmg. So a lvl 5 ranger has 2 favorite enemies with +4 damage on both of their favorite enemy not counting enhancements. A lvl 15 rgr will have 4 favorite enemies for +8 dmg on favorite enemies with possibility of +4 more from enhancements for +12 dmg on each of the 4 favorite enemies.

And yes the proper PnP way was +2 on each fav enemy unlock, IE lvl 10 +6 on first, +4 on second, +2 on third,

[Shade]

Hmm cool that will bring rangers actually pretty close to barbarian DPS if fully speced out at level16:

Barbarian (Dwarf):
22 Str base
+6 item, +3 tome, +1 lotd = 32 base
+10 rage = 42
Then we got the other rages to factor in, we'll drop blood rage sinces its very situational. And rage pot since its short dur and lowers AC so some may not use 100%.
But madstone rage sure +2 most of the time = 44 .. Ranger won't take this because really they want there Rams might and other spells to be able to be recasted incase of dispell and such so having spell casting disabled can suck.
44 = +17 mod or +26 dmg two handed
Power attack III = +16
Dwarf Axe dmg II = +2
Total: +44
Ranger (Dwarf):
22 Str base
+6 item, +3 tome, +1 lotd = 32 base
Rams Might +2 = 34 buffed
34 = +12 mod or +18 dmg two handed
Power Attack (plain) = +10
Rams Might Dmg bonus = +2
Dwarf Axe dmg II = +2
Favored Enemy lvl15 = +8
Favored Enemy enhancement = +4
Total: +44

Wow ranger will catch up to barbarian. Well no not really, no critical rage, and the fact Barbarians can handle the superior two handed style much better (superior HP and DR) = rangers lose.. But still same base dmg versus favored enemies is awesome.

[Slayer918]

TWF rangers will be amazing tho since the +12 to favored enemies applies fully to both hands

Rangers also have evasion over barbarians

34 str (We don't know how many mobs will cast dispell in mod 6 but rangers definately could use madstone if Ram's Might is 1min/level)
+12 str/+6 offhand
+5 power attack
+2 rams might damage portion
+2 axe damage
+8 favored enemy
+4 favored enemy enhancement
+33/+27

Barbarian
44 str
+17 str/+8 offhand
+8 power attack
+2 axe damage
+27/+18

THF barb = 5d12 + 220 + 1 * (2d12 +88) = 7d12 + 302 = 347.5 damage/round = 69.5 damage a hit
TWF ranger = 5d10 + 165 + 1/2 * (2d10 + 66) + 4d6 + 108 + 2/5 * (2d6 + 54) = 27.5 + 165 + 38.5 + 14 + 108 + 24.4 = 377.4 damage/round = 41.933 damage a hit

On paper ranger would be 8.6% more DPS

although TWF is slightly clumsier then THF so we give the barb a slight advantage

and with a bard TWF would catch up somewhat to THF (since the bonuses effect both weapons evenly). THF barb would be 5 attacks at +50 damage (5d12 +250 + 1 * (2d12 + 100) = 7d12 +350 or 395.5 damage/round = 79.1 damage a swing) where as TWF would be at +39/+33 for 9-10 attacks ((5d10 + 195 + 1/2 * (2d10 + 78)) + (4d6 + 132 + 2/5 * (2d6 + 66)) = 27.5 + 195 + 44.5 + 14 + 132 + 29.2 = 442.2 damage/round = 49.133 damage a swing)

with a bard (warchanter would push it farther in favor of the ranger) Ranger has 11.8% more DPS (although we shall see about TWF speed versus THF speed at 15 BAB)

So even with barb crit rage 2 a ranger against favored enemies both with bard buffs would have a higher DPS, without superior two weapon fighting (would be hard to get 19 base dex and 18 base str on a dwarf... would need a lucky tome pull...)

So looks as if barbs may not be as alone at the top as of mod 6...

Barb crit rage 2 = 4d12 +176 damage/20 or just barely over +10 damage per swing (crit rage 2 is included above hence the barb will average 1 crit per round where as the the dwarven axe only averages 1/2 of a crit per round, the handaxe recieves 2/5 of a crit on average 4 attacks at 10% to crit each time = 40% to crit each round)

I could even see ranger being a great base for an intimitank (though maybe not yet at 18 and definately 20 there are some great possibilities I can see)... you could hit roughly 55 AC self buffed, and have much better damage rolls over your ordinary tanks +4 greater weapon spec.... evasion built right in...

[Shade]

Blah keep your stupid made up math off my threads.

None of it makes the sightless bit of sense. You cannot compare 2 VASTLY different combat styles by throwing a few numbers together. Then you purposely screw up the numbers to make TWF look better probably because thats the style you usually play. I play both and like any player with some reasonable skill in melee, realize full well that THF and TWF are not even in the same ballpark for DPS. Mod6 might bring them closer together, but it would take a massive change to even begin to come close to THF power.

Things you purposely did not include to screw the numbers up:
Proper rounding (DDO rounds up for most things like damage)
Glancing blows
Attack Speed. (TWF attack chain is much slower then THF, so comparing dmg per "round" whatever that means in ddo makes no sense with a simple set of numbers without first determining the exact duration of a "round" and how long each style takes to complete - which will never be exactly 1 "round")

Those numbers might work in some pen and paper game, but not in a real time game like this. There just nonsense here.

[Slayer918]

Blah keep your stupid made up math off my threads.

None of it makes the sightless bit of sense. You cannot compare 2 VASTLY different combat styles by throwing a few numbers together. Then you purposely screw up the numbers to make TWF look better probably because thats the style you usually play I play both actually. I play both and like any player with some reasonable skill in melee, realize full well that THF and TWF are not even in the same ballpark for DPS Ill agree taht THF is slightly superior but there definately in the same ballpark. Mod6 might bring them closer together, but it would take a massive change to even begin to come close to THF power.

Things you purposely did not include to screw the numbers up:
Proper rounding (DDO rounds up for most things like damage) Incorrect DDO rounds down
Proof:
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...nShot00109.jpg
notice with +25 damage... -5 SoS -4 greater weapon specilization = +16 with 11 str thats 11 +5.5 rounded down
and
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...nShot00111.jpg
notice +14 damage offhand... -5 weapon - 4 greater weapon specilization = +5 with 11 str thats 5.5 rounded down
Glancing blows
I forgot to mention these... you have me here... however TWF has its advantage as it doesn't draw unwanted agro...
Attack Speed. (TWF attack chain is much slower then THF, so comparing dmg per "round" whatever that means in ddo makes no sense with a simple set of numbers without first determining the exact duration of a "round" and how long each style takes to complete - which will never be exactly 1 "round")
Just doing a quick test using a haste pot I was able to do about 9 1/2 full attack sequences in 20 seconds for TWF and THF was able to get 10... I wouldn't really call that "much" slower...

Those numbers might work in some pen and paper game, but not in a real time game like this. There just nonsense here.

Replies in red

[Meriadeuc]

TWF is at it's best when using weapons with damage effects, like greater bane and holy (since the damage from these effects is almost doubled with TWF but not with THF). Even a finesse ranger with only 18 or 20 strength dual wielding holy of greater bane weapons against a non-favored enemy can almost equal the main-target DPS of a raging barbarian with a holy of greater bane two-hander or the Sword of Shadows (SOS is actually a bit better than a holy of greater bane two-hander against things vulnerable to critical hits). Add in the favored enemy bonuses and the TWF ranger can comfortable out-damage the barb against the main target (this doesn't take into account glancing blows, however, which can certainly add up). The problem, of course, is having to aquire and carry arround 2 holy of greater bane weapons for all of monster types you may be fighting. The barbarian is only going to need 1 Sword of Shadows and he or she is ready to go against anything that can be crtically hit.

[Soul-Shaker]

TWF rangers will be amazing tho since the +12 to favored enemies applies fully to both hands

Rangers also have evasion over barbarians

34 str (We don't know how many mobs will cast dispell in mod 6 but rangers definately could use madstone if Ram's Might is 1min/level)
+12 str/+6 offhand
+5 power attack
+2 rams might damage portion
+2 axe damage
+8 favored enemy
+4 favored enemy enhancement
+33/+27

Barbarian
44 str
+17 str/+8 offhand
+8 power attack
+2 axe damage
+27/+18

Dont forget full bard songs. TWF will pull more ahead with +18 vs +9 dmg per animation

[Yshkabibble]

Blah keep your stupid made up math off my threads.

None of it makes the sightless bit of sense. You cannot compare 2 VASTLY different combat styles by throwing a few numbers together. Then you purposely screw up the numbers to make TWF look better probably because thats the style you usually play. I play both and like any player with some reasonable skill in melee, realize full well that THF and TWF are not even in the same ballpark for DPS. Mod6 might bring them closer together, but it would take a massive change to even begin to come close to THF power.

Things you purposely did not include to screw the numbers up:
Proper rounding (DDO rounds up for most things like damage)
Glancing blows
Attack Speed. (TWF attack chain is much slower then THF, so comparing dmg per "round" whatever that means in ddo makes no sense with a simple set of numbers without first determining the exact duration of a "round" and how long each style takes to complete - which will never be exactly 1 "round")

Those numbers might work in some pen and paper game, but not in a real time game like this. There just nonsense here.

Well lets remember that the numbers are against a rangers favored enemy. I would hope that a ranger could do better against his favored enemies than other melee classes. That's kinda the point of the thing remember.