Endgame quest difficulty poll

[kruggar]

The problem of end game content is that we do this missions a lot and with the knowledge of whats going to happend we go prepared for what they got for us.

Those quests where all of them challenging in a first moment. Now we can do them almost blindfolded. (hmm one day i will try to do one of those blinded hehe would be fun )

The pace where quests are built is lower then the time we spend to memorize every single step of a quest/raid. Thats the real problem.

I know that creating a quest is a hard work and the devs are doing their best to create more content, but there limitations on what can be done.

Answering the OP i prefer tought quests that demand thinking, skills and brute force together

[brshelton]

I think whenever we die in a quest we should spawn a mummy and when we raise have -10 to all stats! That'd make it REALLY hard. O wait they already tried that.....

[redoubt]

Making quest difficult is cool.

BUT, as many other have said, make it difficult for the start. Don't base difficulty on what it will be like on run 100.

I'm still learning several of the orchard quests. For me, while I run through pop killing everything in sight and pick just the right spell for each room, Inferno of the Damned gives me fits! I still expect to recall for mana at least once on normal. I'm sure that once I finally learn it, I will progress to doing it on elite and in a decent time. I won't even consider running hard or elite yet. Too many respawns as I (and my group, nope, not trying to solo) wander about lost.

The pit/falling/force trap/maze in the abbot pre-raid is a royal pita as well. I'm trying to get my ranger/rogue pre-raid ready so I can go stand in the trap and learn where the heck to go. My sorc dies 50% of the time trying to get through there. The dev's have outdone themselves lately making the maps overlap and thus not helpful at all in many places.

How about the undead beholder? I think there is a pretty good balance overall in difficulties in the game.

One final comment: DON'T go back and make level 10, 12, or even 14 quests harder because a bunch of capped and uberly equipted characters can do it easily... Of course they can do it easy. In raising those quests in response to power gamers, you screw the many people who may not have even gotten around to trying that quest yet. I.e. people like me still learning Inferno, while others have it mem'd already.

[brshelton]

first of all the new preraid trap isnt tough. You die through it the first 5 times but then you don't make wrong turns and get through it without even getting hit. SEcond I dont see whats so hard about inferno ya its not a big circle like PoP so you have to actually think about where to go! It requires some thought and coordination yes but hard far from it.

[redoubt]

first of all the new preraid trap isnt tough. You die through it the first 5 times but then you don't make wrong turns and get through it without even getting hit. SEcond I dont see whats so hard about inferno ya its not a big circle like PoP so you have to actually think about where to go! It requires some thought and coordination yes but hard far from it.

I don't see what's so hard about reading comprehension, but apparently some people have a problem with it.

I also don't see what's so hard about having maners and being polite, but apparently some people have a problem there as well.

I've run the abbot pre-raid three times... guess I get some slack, eh? Oh... and I mentioned I wanted to go in and learn my way through it. "I'm trying to get my ranger/rogue pre-raid ready so I can go stand in the trap and learn where the heck to go."

I've run inferno maybe three times. I even said that once I learn the map, it should not be too difficult. "I'm sure that once I finally learn it, I will progress to doing it on elite and in a decent time."

[Beherit_Baphomar]

I want all elite quests to be so difficult I can come to the forums and, for months, complain about them being too difficult.

[Hence]

I really like the Undead Beholder fight, great challenge on Elite.
Madstone on Elite is tough too.
I like tough quests as long as I have enough support to get through them.
Against the Demon Queen, even on elite is not difficult at all. With experienced players I have an easier time on Elite than a PuG on normal.
I loved Invaders when it first came out. I also loved BAM. But I have no incentive to ever play those quests again.
I would like to see a larger reward for Elite quests, maybe two additional chests at the end of the Undead Beholder if you complete the optional on elite.
We need more diversity in elite content. We need more mobs on elite not just higher CR ratings. We need more traps on elite, not the same 3 that are always there.
Truly randomized mob placement and traps would be the best for Elite content.

[alchilito]

What was originally difficult becomes much easier through sheer repetition and players learning what is placed where and how to best beat it.

Want continued challenges? Devs need to design a method to intelligently randomize dungeons. Until that happens, the devs can create very difficult dungeons that will become trivial as soon as players begin to figure them out and then we’ll be back to this discussion yet again.

I refuse to roll a rogue until traps are randomized and the AI of mobs is improved

[wrightdjohn]

I started when the game opened up to the general public (give or take 2 weeks). I did drop out for a while and now I've came back. I am a casual player. Enjoy tactics. Hate zerging.

I've only ran 1 raid. Tempest Spine. I'm not an active guildie although I do belong to a guild.

I found the desert quests to be ridiculously hard when they came out. I haven't found the Giant ones to be as bad. I wish the whole favor system didn't force the running of quests on elite. I think they should design two games. One for the leet and one for the casual. Normal difficulty should be for the casual. Elite for the leet. Favor should be the same for either. Go back to having static rewards that are good enough to keep the casual players in the game and that drop every time. Otherwise good stuff can drop more frequently on elite but should still drop on normal at some frequency.

Anyone.. Just some ideas for make both of our player bases happy.

[sirgog]

... Go back to having static rewards that are good enough to keep the casual players in the game and that drop every time. ...

I think they did an excellent job of this with the Tapestry turn-ins, which are relatively easy to obtain items, yet Minos Legions is arguably the best helmet available in the game for any class.

[Hvymetal]

first of all the new preraid trap isnt tough. You die through it the first 5 times but then you don't make wrong turns and get through it without even getting hit. SEcond I dont see whats so hard about inferno ya its not a big circle like PoP so you have to actually think about where to go! It requires some thought and coordination yes but hard far from it.

So you're saying you blew through Inferno the first time through no problems? I doubt it.....

[Gaermain]

Imagine doing that quest without superoir fire lore or any of the enhancements you have now... thequest pre-dates those... in fact the quest pre-dates firewall in the game... It was impossible for melee to kill him cept maybe a few pallys with constant chained smites as he regened each hit as quick as they were dished out. Prior to that it was one spell (MM) spammed over and over to kill him and very few wizards could deliver the MM in even enough flow nor had wizards had the sp ... the party required a 700+ sp sorc for best effect. Searing light at first never affected him much - he shruged it off like a 14th lvl Barb does a Koldbold tossing a fire bomb and clerics only help were an occasional cure crit wounds (yes the quest pre-dates the heal spell).

I do not know how many of you were arround when u only had 4 enhancements and the level cap was 10 and your sorc could not switch out spells, and the blackguard of TS had 50+ac and the power spell was MM because Firewall, dancing sphere, cloudkill and many many other spells did not even exist. Back then Von 2 and 3 and even Von 5 and the dragon were formidable on hard let alone elite. The threnals, Co6 on elite were even considered a challenge as only the best equiped tanks and casters even made a difference in them. A +5 weapon was a rareity, a +5 full plate uncommon, near every tank ran around in scavanged plate ... people farmed von 4 and co6 and the giant caves loot was considered exceptional.

/remembers

I've been pwned by that vamp so many times back at that time it's not even funny. Von 3 used to be a hoot - with that beholder nailing you through the walls. Good times, good times.

[Gaermain]

I want all elite quests to be so difficult I can come to the forums and, for months, complain about them being too difficult until the devs nerf them so I can come back and complain they are too easy.

Fixed it for ya

[KKDragonLord]

I just did Tor Elite for the first time and wow that was a lot of fun, even with a lvl 6 in the group we managed to do white on 1st attempt, altough it was not an elegant fight.

Blue took about 5 or 6 tries and was really awesome how only doing everything right made it work.

Sadly i didn't have enough time to do Black, we failed a couple of times and i had to leave, but it seemed it was going to be easier until the giant started healing the bastard, if i knew to keep their HP even we would've managed on 1st try. On second try i attempted to take black away from giant but those acid traps are insane on elite!

[Aeneas]

Holy Necro Bump Batman!

[Hafeal]

Holy Necro Bump Batman!

LOL. Exactly what I was thinking!

[Claver]

I judge Elite to be a success when there is at least one party wipe. Only then do I get a sense that failure hangs in the balance and feel the urgency for good team play. If recalling after mass death doesn't happen at least 50% of the time we attempt a quest on Elite then it wasn't ELITE!!!

Normal on the other hand should be able to be experienced by a level appropriate casual player without uber gear. They may die and even fail the quest initially but it shouldn't require numerous attempts before they enjoy their first success.

[Thorzian]

Imagine doing that quest without superoir fire lore or any of the enhancements you have now... thequest pre-dates those... in fact the quest pre-dates firewall in the game... It was impossible for melee to kill him cept maybe a few pallys with constant chained smites as he regened each hit as quick as they were dished out. Prior to that it was one spell (MM) spammed over and over to kill him and very few wizards could deliver the MM in even enough flow nor had wizards had the sp ... the party required a 700+ sp sorc for best effect. Searing light at first never affected him much - he shruged it off like a 14th lvl Barb does a Koldbold tossing a fire bomb and clerics only help were an occasional cure crit wounds (yes the quest pre-dates the heal spell).

I do not know how many of you were arround when u only had 4 enhancements and the level cap was 10 and your sorc could not switch out spells, and the blackguard of TS had 50+ac and the power spell was MM because Firewall, dancing sphere, cloudkill and many many other spells did not even exist. Back then Von 2 and 3 and even Von 5 and the dragon were formidable on hard let alone elite. The threnals, Co6 on elite were even considered a challenge as only the best equiped tanks and casters even made a difference in them. A +5 weapon was a rareity, a +5 full plate uncommon, near every tank ran around in scavanged plate ... people farmed von 4 and co6 and the giant caves loot was considered exceptional.

To be reasonable... every quest at the time they came out were somewhat of a challenge on elite... You just got spoiled with repetition, new tools (enhancements, spells, weapons armour, etc...) Thus simplifying the quests.

i remember pulling a +5 addy dwa on my dwarf fighter (this was before the mailboxes even) and waking up my wife with the cheer. iron golems.. feel the wrath!!

And i fully agree with some of the other poster on this thread. offer smarter ai, random mob locations, and random traps of variable difficulty to make any mission a little more challenging on elite. madstone is listed often here. how much harder would it be if the giants actually had the monster aggro during the ritual at the 2nd and 3rd locations. or if there was a trap on one of the ramps leading up to there. not nescessarily a damage trap either, how cool would a grease trap be on a ramp?

[Valiance]

The gianthold tor quest is another example of the subjectivism of quest difficulty. A very good example, in fact. Most groups I have been in have said the white dragon is by far the most difficult to defeat. My experience, from the first time I ran that quest until now, is the opposite: the white dragon is the easiest, the other two are hard.

That is because the white dragon's difficulty is dependent on a good caster. Since you always run a good caster, it always seems easy.

Edit- Didn't realize I was responding to a post from like 2 years ago....

[KKDragonLord]

Holy Necro Bump Batman!

Lol, i was just looking for a thread that said anything about TOR strategy, this is the one i found, i was so hyped up about it i didn't even check the dates.

On a side note, i agree that Elite should be just like this, if the group don't play well enough they should have to retry until they do. Losing the fight that many times and eventually succeeding was an awesome feeling i didn't get since my solo days. Im guessing if i had played long enough to have uber gear though it might have been a tad easier.