Endgame quest difficulty poll

[sirgog]

I can't make this a formal poll, don't have the moderator privledges to do so :-(.


Anyway, how tough do you think the game's highest level quests (leave out raids here, that's a different ballgame) should be to complete on elite? Do you want more easy quests like Prison of the Planes elite, Trial by Fire elite and pre-changes Desecrated Temple of Vol? More medium stuff like elite Crucible, elite A Relic of a Sovereign Past or elite A Cry for Help? Or more truly tough quests, like elite Madstone Crater, elite Inferno of the Damned, elite Against the Demon Queen and elite Offering of Blood?


Myself, I think the highest level quests should be relatively easy for a level-appropriate party to complete on normal, should be a moderate challenge on hard (i.e. a fair chance of failure or having to recall for SP) and on elite, I'd like to see quests that are truly tough. I think it's a bit of a shame that IMO none of the level 14 quests are as tough as Against the Demon Queen (the preraid).

[Ghoste]

Difficulty of quests can be somewhat subjective. For example, you list madstone and offering of blood as more difficult quests, and PoP as an easier quest. However when a party approaches the first two with a strategy and sticks to it, those to are, in my opinion, considerably easier than PoP.

I think that actually gives you my answer to your question: I like the challenging ones.

[MysticTheurge]

Difficulty of quests can be somewhat subjective. For example, you list madstone and offering of blood as more difficult quests, and PoP as an easier quest. However when a party approaches the first two with a strategy and sticks to it, those to are, in my opinion, considerably easier than PoP.

/concur

[In_Like_Flynn]

They should be so difficult that months later progress is still being made toward completing them for the first time.

[LOUDRampart]

What was originally difficult becomes much easier through sheer repetition and players learning what is placed where and how to best beat it.

Want continued challenges? Devs need to design a method to intelligently randomize dungeons. Until that happens, the devs can create very difficult dungeons that will become trivial as soon as players begin to figure them out and then we’ll be back to this discussion yet again.

[Shade]

I like the harder ones a lot more. Really dislike quests like pop because i find them painfully easy and thus boring, just too small and easy to memorize the spawns removing any risk or dififculty- could be difficult for a full group of first timer on elite... nah probably not unless they have no clue what there doing.

Madstone crater is definetely fun and challenging.. Because it depends on having good dps, good healing, along with good crowd control, great length and even a semi-fail condition (if you can't protect the seer)

Other favorites for good challenge are either undead beholder fight on elite - with no cheese tactics like fear and /w optional on the ghosts of perd one.

Offering of blood was pretty good when it just came out and the cap was 12. These days with lvl14s i find it pretty easy.. I know some players can still have a rough time in there tho.

[Lithic]

You have crucible listed as medium difficulty. After 100+ runs, I consider this one to be easier than pop (I could solo it no problem with my caster if not for those dang maze valves).

But do you guys remember when crucible LFM's stayed up for an hour looking for someoen to do the swim? Ah those were the days hehe.

[Aspenor]

You have crucible listed as medium difficulty. After 100+ runs, I consider this one to be easier than pop (I could solo it no problem with my caster if not for those dang maze valves).

But do you guys remember when crucible LFM's stayed up for an hour looking for someoen to do the swim? Ah those were the days hehe.

Remember when people insisted they needed a rogue to do the swim?! Oh wait...they still do that.

I can swim through on a sorceror and take 0 damage if I get lucky, take 1 or 2 hits of damage on average.. I arz ubersz

[Molotov]

i wish more elite quests were like madstone on elite, if you don't go in there with your "a" game, prepare to get your behind handed to you

[KaKa]

I want more quests like Invaders during the Stormreach under siege mod but before mod 3. High difficulty yet a very high reward.

[LOUDRampart]

i wish more elite quests were like madstone on elite, if you don't go in there with your "a" game, prepare to get your behind handed to you

Soon Madstone will be trivial... oh wait, it is already becoming that way...

[Mavnimo]

I think the giant hold tor(reaver preraid) is one of if not the hardest non-raid quest in the game. It's also one of my favorites tho I rarely run it anymore unless I need to get another character ready for the reaver. The House P vampire is another one of my fav's and still has the strongest vamp(for lvl app characters). Imagine fighting the High Priest of Vol with the house p vamp's powers.

[sirgog]

i wish more elite quests were like madstone on elite, if you don't go in there with your "a" game, prepare to get your behind handed to you

I'd like to see madstone elite be the standard difficulty level for playing top-end quests on hard. It requires a little under your A-game - it's tough but beatable by either mediocre players with good tactics, or good players with mediocre tactics.

IMO this is how hard a quest on Hard should be. On elite, you really should need to bring your A-game, or get wiped in the first 5 minutes.

[sirgog]

I think the giant hold tor(reaver preraid) is one of if not the hardest non-raid quest in the game. It's also one of my favorites tho I rarely run it anymore unless I need to get another character ready for the reaver. The House P vampire is another one of my fav's and still has the strongest vamp(for lvl app characters). Imagine fighting the High Priest of Vol with the house p vamp's powers.

Adding in the dragons makes the Tor indeed a tough quest. But to loot run it, all you need to do is run the quest up to the Gatekeeper and then get the chests that are en route to the dragons on elite. People tend only to take on the dragons on normal.

Must say I was underwhelmed when I finally took on the elite house P vamp. One maxxed/extended firewall crit, he died to it. Guess he might be rough in melee, never really got to find out.

[Ghoste]

The gianthold tor quest is another example of the subjectivism of quest difficulty. A very good example, in fact. Most groups I have been in have said the white dragon is by far the most difficult to defeat. My experience, from the first time I ran that quest until now, is the opposite: the white dragon is the easiest, the other two are hard.

[sirgog]

The gianthold tor quest is another example of the subjectivism of quest difficulty. A very good example, in fact. Most groups I have been in have said the white dragon is by far the most difficult to defeat. My experience, from the first time I ran that quest until now, is the opposite: the white dragon is the easiest, the other two are hard.

I find the white dragon hardest due to the giant spamming Greater Dispel Magic. It's all fun and games till someone loses their buffs - then it's a massacre.

If the majority of your party have the boots that make them immune to the slow/freeze effect and have resist cold:30 items equipped, it's very different. But as I PUG more often than running guild runs, this isn't common.

[birminghampiper]

subjective for certain, it's the blue dragon that gives me fits

The gianthold tor quest is another example of the subjectivism of quest difficulty. A very good example, in fact. Most groups I have been in have said the white dragon is by far the most difficult to defeat. My experience, from the first time I ran that quest until now, is the opposite: the white dragon is the easiest, the other two are hard.

[Deaths_ward]

subjective for certain, it's the blue dragon that gives me fits

For some reason ever since I started wearing the blue robe, the blue dragon likes to wander over, and pimp slap me.

[Emili]

Must say I was underwhelmed when I finally took on the elite house P vamp. One maxxed/extended firewall crit, he died to it. Guess he might be rough in melee, never really got to find out.

Imagine doing that quest without superoir fire lore or any of the enhancements you have now... thequest pre-dates those... in fact the quest pre-dates firewall in the game... It was impossible for melee to kill him cept maybe a few pallys with constant chained smites as he regened each hit as quick as they were dished out. Prior to that it was one spell (MM) spammed over and over to kill him and very few wizards could deliver the MM in even enough flow nor had wizards had the sp ... the party required a 700+ sp sorc for best effect. Searing light at first never affected him much - he shruged it off like a 14th lvl Barb does a Koldbold tossing a fire bomb and clerics only help were an occasional cure crit wounds (yes the quest pre-dates the heal spell).

I do not know how many of you were arround when u only had 4 enhancements and the level cap was 10 and your sorc could not switch out spells, and the blackguard of TS had 50+ac and the power spell was MM because Firewall, dancing sphere, cloudkill and many many other spells did not even exist. Back then Von 2 and 3 and even Von 5 and the dragon were formidable on hard let alone elite. The threnals, Co6 on elite were even considered a challenge as only the best equiped tanks and casters even made a difference in them. A +5 weapon was a rareity, a +5 full plate uncommon, near every tank ran around in scavanged plate ... people farmed von 4 and co6 and the giant caves loot was considered exceptional.

To be reasonable... every quest at the time they came out were somewhat of a challenge on elite... You just got spoiled with repetition, new tools (enhancements, spells, weapons armour, etc...) Thus simplifying the quests.

[Shade]

Yea rightfully so quests should be judged on difficult based on what they were like the first few weeks they came out, and what gear/power our characters had then to throw at them.

In many quests several months of improved loot and level ups can make them trivial, but that does not change the fact they were designed well and in a way to make them a great challenge.

I mean say even Gianthold Tor.. How many people beat all 3 dragons on elite within the first month? Not many. All I ever saw (aside from my own) was LFMs that read "Tor Elite (no dragons)".

And there difficulty scales very well on elite, which is what causes the debate over which one is harder. On normal - the white one is hardest. But on elite - the blue one is - because the traps scale up to insane levels where if you just don't have the DPS to beat the fight in 2 minuits - you fail. Where on normal you could take 5 minuits and the traps still aren't doing much dmg.

Then again many groups don't have such an easy time with white - because there caster heavy groups. White is mainly difficult to time the kill at the end - where the dragon should be kept seperate from the giant during the fight - they need to be brought closer together to time the finish and that cna cause havok for an unprepared group.. Say a newbie caster is fire speced has a wall of fire up - it won't case much dmg at all to the giant but will kill the dragon quite quickly, so they might both be at 5%, but the dragon dies right away and now the casters trying to cut down that last 5% with wall of fire and fireball - which can very ineffective versus the giant and often run out of time causing a reset and prompt whipe.

While others have good strong high DPS melees on each one, so the timing is much easier as they both do consistant dmg to there targets.

Then black can be impossible for certain groups as well if approached wrong - in other cases you might kill one dragon or giant faster then the other, then stop and focus on the other one - that is fine on blue and white.. But if you do that on black on elite - the giant casts improved empowerd heal on the dragon - healing him for 1000+, so you must keep there health bars even the whole fight... Ofcourse most people did not know this even if they did the quest 20 times because his heals are pretty weak on normal and hard, but on elite they are huge.

Today most of these important tactics and skills are known by allot of players, so thus the quest because easier by using the right party makeup and strategy. But whe n it first came out and you didn;t know this: Quite a good challenge.