Mass Casting Spells

[Bogenbroom]

I have a request. Could it be taken under consideration to modify the "Mass" casting of targetable spells. I believe it would be a lot more player friendly if Mass spells just went away and that functionality was moved to a meta-magic type functionality.

I am MUCH more concerned about the spells that are cast on allies, not those cast on enemies. Buffing is one of those things that is just annoying to do and annoying to wait through.

[MysticTheurge]

Mass spells are generally separate spells and should stay that way. The added amount of power in a mass spell varies significantly from spell to spell.

The difference, for instance, between Aid and Mass Aid is less than the difference between Resist Energy and Mass Resist Energy.

That said, they should add more mass spells, specifically Mass Resist Energy, which is what takes up a disproportionately large part of the "buffing time."

[Bogenbroom]

Mass spells are generally separate spells and should stay that way. The added amount of power in a mass spell varies significantly from spell to spell.

The difference, for instance, between Aid and Mass Aid is less than the difference between Resist Energy and Mass Resist Energy.

That said, they should add more mass spells, specifically Mass Resist Energy, which is what takes up a disproportionately large part of the "buffing time."

Understood, and if that is functionality that is deemed worth continuing a case-by-case cost should be easy enough to implement. I would assume this data lives in a table (is it extendable? is it expandable?) So rather than yes/no a value could be there.

And yup, resist energy is specifically the worst one, mostly because of the cool down timer. But Death Ward, FoM, True Sight, Hero, blur, etc are al l a rectal annoyance.

[MysticTheurge]

But Death Ward, FoM, True Sight, Hero, blur

Mass Death Ward is an 8th level spell and hopefully we'll see it in Mod 6.

There is no Mass FoM, True Seeing, Heroism or Blur.

And that's the other reason not to make a "Mass Spell" metamagic. Some spells don't have mass versions by design.

[Zenako]

Having a Metamagic toggle (and having to take a Metamagic feat to get it) could also be an issue. There are many spells that affect self/allies that you might not want to be casting on "all". Things like Restoration for example if only one victim is about. Having to toggle Mass on and off would be a pain, especially for those clerics who use things like Mass CSW in battle for example.

I personally do not find it all that much of a pain, especially if only the needed buffs are cast and everyone is not getting the whole shopping basket of buffs.

[Strakeln]

I like your idea, OP.

I think we should have a free version of this... sort of the PnP equivalent of "I cast resist energy: fire on the entire party". Same spell point cost as if you had cast them individually, but a single cooldown.

Maybe make this available only at quest entrances and rest shrines?

[Tanka]

Mass Death Ward is an 8th level spell and hopefully we'll see it in Mod 6.

There is no Mass FoM, True Seeing, Heroism or Blur.

And that's the other reason not to make a "Mass Spell" metamagic. Some spells don't have mass versions by design.

Technically, Good Hope is a Mass version of Heroism, though it adds a few more things to it and is only castable by Bards.

[Bogenbroom]

Mass Death Ward is an 8th level spell and hopefully we'll see it in Mod 6.

There is no Mass FoM, True Seeing, Heroism or Blur.

And that's the other reason not to make a "Mass Spell" metamagic. Some spells don't have mass versions by design.

But that is sort of the point. Why do I need to spend the time to individually cast blur but not aid? Yeah, I get that there are correlation in PnP, but they don't map out to DDO. In DDO the difference between single target and mass spells is, really, time. You could make the argument there is a SP cost as well, sure, but SP hits could be mitigated with proper implementation. Aid+Mass cost 20. Bull's+Mass cost 40 (or whatever Mass Bull cost now). It is still one field in the table.

Just because FoM doesn't have a Mass version in PnP doesn't mean we should have to suffer through an annoyance factor with it. My opinion of course.

I would think it should be an auto-granted Feat. Level is debatable, but my inclination would be 5, for clerics at least, since that is when mass spells first show up (from memory.)

I mean, yeah, it is a minor annoyance in the grand scope of things, but it is something that I woul dthink it would be relatively easy to do that would smooth out the game a bit.

[Laith]

In DDO the difference between single target and mass spells is, really, time. You could make the argument there is a SP cost as well

you also forgot "higher level spell slot"

so that's 3 differences: time, SP, higher level spell slot.

Sure, the spell slot becomes less important as you get more of them, but those of your highest level are generally fairly "valuable". Also, if you want a "mass" and "single" version of the spell, you're using TWO spell slots. A toggle would cut that to one.

~~~~

"Per round" spells (like displacement for example) generally don't have Mass versions. If they did, their usefulness for recast during combat is greatly increased as they are most likely to expire.


"Time" is more than just an annoyance factor. In both DDO & PnP, how much you can achieve in a particular time frame is generally the difference between success and failure. Buffing generally occurs before a fight, but that's hardly the ONLY time it occurs.

I'm not against mass spells. Mass Resist, in particular, is long overdue. An ability that can add "Mass" to all buffs though just isn't right.

[Mercules]

Just because FoM doesn't have a Mass version in PnP doesn't mean we should have to suffer through an annoyance factor with it. My opinion of course.

You could always play a game NOT based on the ruleset you don't want to follow... like WoW.

[samagee]

Understood, and if that is functionality that is deemed worth continuing a case-by-case cost should be easy enough to implement. I would assume this data lives in a table (is it extendable? is it expandable?) So rather than yes/no a value could be there.

And yup, resist energy is specifically the worst one, mostly because of the cool down timer. But Death Ward, FoM, True Sight, Hero, blur, etc are al l a rectal annoyance.

It sounds like D&D may not be your kind of game then.

[Ishturi]

mass spells have always been separate in D&D. A mass metamagic feat would be OP.

Examples: Mass finger of death. Mass hold monster. Mass flesh to stone. Mass firewall (). Mass Disintegrate. Mass harm. Mass Chain Lightning (ZZZAAAPP).

[Wizzly_Bear]

Mass spells are generally separate spells and should stay that way. The added amount of power in a mass spell varies significantly from spell to spell.

The difference, for instance, between Aid and Mass Aid is less than the difference between Resist Energy and Mass Resist Energy.

That said, they should add more mass spells, specifically Mass Resist Energy, which is what takes up a disproportionately large part of the "buffing time."

qft and
/signed

[Zenako]

I have a request. Could it be taken under consideration to modify the "Mass" casting of targetable spells. I believe it would be a lot more player friendly if Mass spells just went away and that functionality was moved to a meta-magic type functionality.

I am MUCH more concerned about the spells that are cast on allies, not those cast on enemies. Buffing is one of those things that is just annoying to do and annoying to wait through.

Not sure I really understand you. Removing the Mass versions will result in both A) more spell points being used to cast them seperately, and B) having to wait even longer.

Right now I can cast Mass Aid, Mass Spell Resistence, etc and get every one with my cleric. If you are concerned about getting hit with Area of Effect spells like Rage, let your casters know and step away.

I am really not sure how it would be more player friendly to have them go away?

[MysticTheurge]

I am really not sure how it would be more player friendly to have them go away?

He's suggesting that there would be a "Mass Spell" type metamagic. You'd turn it on and then all of your buffs would be mass buffs.

[Aspenor]

I would like to see mass resist energy, that should only be what, level 6?

[MysticTheurge]

I would like to see mass resist energy, that should only be what, level 6?

Clr 3, Sor/Wiz 4

[Aspenor]

Clr 3, Sor/Wiz 4

Well shoot, even better...I just sorta assumed it'd be similar to the mass stat enhancing spells.