Raid Loot Protocols. . .

[Mithran]

The GM of Knights of Insurrection was recruited to be part of a meeting of Guild Masters from other large guilds on the newly-merged server, Khyber. These aforementioned GM’s ran a few raids together, got to know one another a bit, and the word was passed along to members of KoI that we were to adhere to specific raid loot protocols:

1. The person for whom a raid loot item drops has first dibs on using the item for him/herself, no questions asked, and no hard feelings.

2. The person for whom raid loot drops has the alternative option of trading his item for the raid loot item automatically assigned to someone else (from the same chest).

3. In the absence of either of the above alternatives, the item can be offered to the raid in general, where everyone who is interested in the item has an opportunity to roll on it.

Several members of my guild were in a Reaver pug, and for one of them, a +3 to Strength Tome dropped. This member was immediately offered the very lucrative trade of a Bloodstone and a +6 to Charisma ring for the Tome. In strict adherence to the raid protocols we had been instructed to follow, this member of KoI ignored the offer of a trade, and put the Tome up for a general roll. Three or four raid members rolled on the item.

The raid member who won the roll on the item had the loot transferred to them by my guildie, but rather than triple-clicking it, he/she then transferred the item to the individual who had offered the items to my guildie in trade.

Please note that I am not attempting to smear any players, here. I have specifically named no player characters, and I was not personally in the raid. My feeling is simply that members of my guild are following rather strict raid loot rules that members of other guilds are not similarly following.

What are your feelings about this incident?

[Redcoil]

...that sucks, but ultimately you cant define other people decisions.

Personally, I go for more or less the same rules.

You get it, you essentially won the roll already - its in YOUR NAME... then raid loot/loot trades n' what not, then to party...except for certain items. Reaver gloves for example, are fairly obviously cleric, while dragonsword is a bit tank-ish.

I also believe in gifts... if you choose to give your raid item to someone else because they can truly use it, as long as its for the benefit of the character and not for the ultimate motive of greed, I'm ok with that.

If a barb pulls +3 wis tome, and chooses to just give it to a cleric... the other clerics may object, but to me, at least its going to a good home :-)

[Ninety]

I don't know of any large gm meeting, or any multi guild agreement, but you can't make anyone that isn't you do anything.

[Mithran]

The question in my mind is given that this behavior is possible, should we assume that other people would do the same, and take the offer for the healthy trade?

Clearly my guildie should have taken the trade, rather than putting the item up for roll, in retrospect.


A Protocol is a set of guidelines or rules that help in governing an operation. . .


I used the term "protocol" very deliberately because I'm wondering if members of my guild should assume that the high standard set by my guildie (which had been our stated guild policy) is far out of the ordinary. Obviously, one cannot force someone else to do or say anything; nor should one try.

[Aranticus]

The question in my mind is given that this behavior is possible, should we assume that other people would do the same, and take the offer for the healthy trade?

Clearly my guildie should have taken the trade, rather than putting the item up for roll, in retrospect.


A Protocol is a set of guidelines or rules that help in governing an operation. . .


I used the term "protocol" very deliberately because I'm wondering if members of my guild should assume that the high standard set by my guildie (which had been our stated guild policy) is far out of the ordinary. Obviously, one cannot force someone else to do or say anything; nor should one try.

as you mentioned, it is a protocol and not a hard set of rules. in real life, protocols are not strictly adhered to even.... think of the kyoto protocol (global warming). given that we are in a virtual environment behind the annonomity of the internet, there is no true ways to enforce anything set. you can alienate, punish these individuals but its a lose-lose situation. IMO this player has done a greater thing by giving it up for a roll. he/she gave up loot he had to other players when he/she could have used it to enrich him/herself... such self sacrifice should pervade in people.

that said, there are exceptions. just this week i was disgusted by 2 players in a dragon pug. when the loot item dropped, they automatically assumed that they would get the loot that dropped for me. i asked who needed it, no one else apart from the replied, i looted it then finished out.....

[Barumar]

The only clarification I would want is did the person who won the roll, and then made the trade your Guildie was offered know that your Guildie was offered the exact same trade? If so, then that is messed up! If not, then I have no issues with that person...

Bottom line - your Guildie following such a strict policy got him screwed out of a sweet trade - imho!

My Guildies and I run the Reaver twice a week. We have somewhere between 4 & 8 Guildies in each run. We normally offer our drops we already have to all to roll on, but (again imho) +3 Tomes are different. That is why we keep running that raid, and when one drops we are of course first looking to ourselves, and then to our Guildies with these very rare and very awesome Tomes! If/when a +3 CHA Tome ever drops I am of course hoping it has my name or one of my Guildies names next to it, as I have passed on rolling for (in the old Raid loot mechanic when we 4 - 6 manned the Raid with all Guildies) +3 STR and +3 DEX tomes to allow Fighters and Rangers/Rogues to have them. Of course there is always the multiple of 20 chance for one (almost to 40!)...

Again, I am thinking it is best to clarify BEFORE the raid any Raid loot policy, especially for +3 Tomes, as I think these are the items that get the most attention/cause the most "issues".

Barumar

[Impaqt]

I know I'm not on your server, but i have to comment.

Trying to enforce your own high standards, Protocal, and ways of doing things in a PuG is a recipie for heartache, Frustration and ill will.

The game has given us a raid loot system that is beyond absolute control. Trying to control is is an exercise in frustration. If you expect people to live up to your standards, only group with people you know that do.

If you are going to try to enforce your raid loot rules onto random players, the rules should be laid out before the quest begins so they have an oppertunity to drop group and find another.

[Serpent]

Isn't the new raid loot system wonderful!!!

[Boldrin]

Why has no one else heard of this meeting of the great leaders of Khyber?? I know I haven't . Personally, I give away 95% of the raid loot I get. Because I already have it or don't need it. If a friend is in the group and he needs it, he gets it. If none of my regular raid runners need it, I offer it to the group. If more than 1 person wants it, they roll, how hard is that. If someone offers me an insane trade for an item, I'm taking it, plain and simple. If I pull a +3 tome I'm eating it, regardless of what class I am, just for a better saving throw, or any other enhancement it may give me( combat expertise- int, will save- wis, and the others are more obvious, except my fighter has given away a +3 cha tome, only one I'll pass up. )

[Harncw]

Why has no one else heard of this meeting of the great leaders of Khyber?? I know I haven't .

What you missed that? They opened up the 12 just for it... Yeah it did sound a little egotistical.

as for my opinion, cause I guess he asked...

it was dirty pool but then there are all kinds out there. I have played dirty pool before too!

[Lo_Pan]

I don't know about others, but I know KoI are an honourable bunch....So are TA, Hobt, KotA, DoA and a few other pre merge guilds I could mention....Now, I am getting to know some of the post merge guilds, and I can say that Legion of the cold children and Stormreach thieves guild are good guys....Don't know many others out there. All I will really say is: It's a pug.....It's up to the leader of the group to define the loot system He/She wants to use.....other than that....if a guild has rules about pugs and pug raid loot system, then the individual should act in accordance with their own principles. As the old cliché says: 'You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink!'

[Cowdenicus]

This is strictly my opinion but if raid loot drops for me, it is my choice on what to do with it period. If I want it I am going to use it, if I dont want it, I will choose whom I will give it to, and my friends come first, then my guildies, then me.

(Bards are my friends)

[Ninety]

I love how he hasn't come back to comment on the lack of anyone knowing about this guild leaders meeting.

[Ghaldar]

The GM of Knights of Insurrection was recruited to be part of a meeting of Guild Masters from other large guilds on the newly-merged server, Khyber. These aforementioned GM’s ran a few raids together, got to know one another a bit, and the word was passed along to members of KoI that we were to adhere to specific raid loot protocols:

Are you refering to the meeting where 1 guy invited 11 other guilds to meet to talk about the loot raid changes?

Whilest I am not the Leader of the MAC, I am an officer. I forget even who the lad was that invited the MAC to this meeting.....I do know one occured as I passed the invite to my guild master and trap finder Featherstone.
I know featherstone attended, I also know that these guild leaders ran some raids and got to know each other....I know that Raid loot discussions took place, I also Know that the discussions moved to cover more important things, like guild relations etc. What I do not know is that anything was ever really formalized about Loot. If this was the meeting being refered too by the op, nothing has been passed down the chain of command to me about a "protocol", I thought it was more of a mature handling of loot where if you get it it is yous and if you do not use it you can trade/put up for roll....course I couold be wrong.....which i am frequently...ask Dane.

[Conquistador]

I did hear about this meeting of the 10-12 largest guilds meeting shortly after the new raid loot system was announce. How the big 12 was determined or what protocol they deemed fair and just for the new loot system I don't have a clue. Our guild was not in attendance. Anyhow, just wanted to confirm that there was a powwow.

Peace,
Conq

[Ghaldar]

Essentially One person from one of the newly merged servers asked 11 other Guilds to come to this thing....I know we in the MAC not being "uber" were leary of said meeting...but our leader attended mostly out of curisousity. The protocol for Guilds to be invited was never clear. At the time I thought some very good guilds were not there. I know the meeting was intended to be very loot oriented by the host, I believe it turned to be very non loot oriented and more of a get to know the other guilds....

[Fallout]

PUG and strict raid loot protocols.
Hmm they go together well.
When you introduce pug into the picture, then the loot protocol should go away since it can't be enforced, and people simply don't care/don't listen. Guild only group, different scenario.

[Oreg]

...../snip What are your feelings about this incident?

Turbine already put rules in place for raid loot.

1. You can keep your loot
2. You can choose to give it to someone else on the raid


You guys tried to add/change the rules to the result of some raid loot fixing scheme. I am not surprised that it fell apart because in the end the only rules that matter are #s 1 and 2 listed above.

[Citymorg]

We have 2 very strict protocals for our raids, they apply to guild raids and guild + pug raids.

1. If the loot drops in your chest, it is your's to do with as you wish

2. If you don't need/can't use the loot, ie. Barbarian gets a Stormreaver Napkin or a Sorcerer gets a Sword of Shadows (or someone puts something up for a roll and you win and give to someone else for a trade), then don't be a jerk. If you are, we have a very long lis....memory for people who those sorts of thing. PM please.

[Staedtler]

Whenever I pull raid loot I ask myself "Can I use this?" No? "Can I anyone I like use this?" No? "Roll for my loot if you want it. I will also take bribes."

Does this meet the standards of the Khyber Raid Loot Protocol?