Raid Loot Protocols. . .

[Azoralq]

If I pull loot I can't use. I cry about it endlessly in DDO Chat, then recallout, leaving the item to rot.

Kidding, of course...

[muffinlad]

I love how he hasn't come back to comment on the lack of anyone knowing about this guild leaders meeting.

So, now do we need to expect you to come back and apologize for basically implying that the person is a liar when they did not comment on your time table, or perhaps ignoring your request altogether? I mean, now that others have confirmed it, shouldn’t you? Or perhaps you may want to doubt their truthfulness as well?

My point here being, how you ask something is often more important than what you ask for.


muffinscheden

[Strakeln]

After a few bad experiences, I'm changing my personal raid loot policy.

Tomes I will eat unless I already have eaten the same tome. I put a +2 cha tome out for roll and had something similar to the OP's situation happen... burned me so much that I started missing the +1 to my intimidate that it would have provided (essentially useless, but at least I wouldn't feel robbed now if I'd followed the "eat your own tomes" policy.

If someone offers me plat or items for something I don't want, I will sell it. I'd really be ****ed if I had the OP's situation happen word for word.

If no one offers me plat/items and I do not want the loot, I will offer it up for a roll but will not hand it over until the winner and I are the only two people in the instance. Furthermore, I will strictly define who is rolling based on strongest need.

I don't like handling my loot this way, but people on Khyber have now repeatedly demonstrated that they cannot be trusted to follow the original loot owner's wishes. Sucks that a few jackholes ruin it for the rest of us, but I'm sick of seeing loot I rolled off being sold or given to the winning roller's guildie or anything like that.

[muffinlad]

After a few bad experiences, I'm changing my personal raid loot policy.

Tomes I will eat unless I already have eaten the same tome. I put a +2 cha tome out for roll and had something similar to the OP's situation happen... burned me so much that I started missing the +1 to my intimidate that it would have provided (essentially useless, but at least I wouldn't feel robbed now if I'd followed the "eat your own tomes" policy.

If someone offers me plat or items for something I don't want, I will sell it. I'd really be ****ed if I had the OP's situation happen word for word.

If no one offers me plat/items and I do not want the loot, I will offer it up for a roll but will not hand it over until the winner and I are the only two people in the instance. Furthermore, I will strictly define who is rolling based on strongest need.

I don't like handling my loot this way, but people on Khyber have now repeatedly demonstrated that they cannot be trusted to follow the original loot owner's wishes. Sucks that a few jackholes ruin it for the rest of us, but I'm sick of seeing loot I rolled off being sold or given to the winning roller's guildie or anything like that.

Hmmmm, at first I thought...well, if you give them the loot, who cares if they sell it/trade it, etc...but after thinking about it, it would/could get under my skin if this happens.

Already, I NEVER agree to a roll on my loot in a PUG, but I would offer to highest bidder. (by PuG I do not mean guild only, as I would not consider a group of people I know, who happen to not be in TFC, a PuG.) In a Familiar group (Guildies, and known players) I would give stuff away at a drop of a hat, and if someone I gave something to sold or traded it in that case, I really would not care. I more than likely would have given them money if they needed it anyway.......

Regs,

muffinlooter

[jkm]

After a few bad experiences, I'm changing my personal raid loot policy.

Tomes I will eat unless I already have eaten the same tome. I put a +2 cha tome out for roll and had something similar to the OP's situation happen... burned me so much that I started missing the +1 to my intimidate that it would have provided (essentially useless, but at least I wouldn't feel robbed now if I'd followed the "eat your own tomes" policy.

If someone offers me plat or items for something I don't want, I will sell it. I'd really be ****ed if I had the OP's situation happen word for word.

If no one offers me plat/items and I do not want the loot, I will offer it up for a roll but will not hand it over until the winner and I are the only two people in the instance. Furthermore, I will strictly define who is rolling based on strongest need.

I don't like handling my loot this way, but people on Khyber have now repeatedly demonstrated that they cannot be trusted to follow the original loot owner's wishes. Sucks that a few jackholes ruin it for the rest of us, but I'm sick of seeing loot I rolled off being sold or given to the winning roller's guildie or anything like that.

just so you know, it was suwsuw that pulled yet another +3 useless stat tome.

i've amended my raiding policy to this:

guild raid - follow our rules
other guild's raid - follow their rules
pug - whatever i feel like doing

[Strakeln]

just so you know, it was suwsuw that pulled yet another +3 useless stat tome.

i've amended my raiding policy to this:

guild raid - follow our rules
other guild's raid - follow their rules
pug - whatever i feel like doing

I should have probably more clearly stated that guild raids and non-pug raids with other guilds will have different rulesets that I follow. My new policy is for pug/semi-pug raids.

And I am SO gonna start raiding with you. See if I can get that horseshoe removed from your ass so that I may insert it into mine.

[Ninety]

So, now do we need to expect you to come back and apologize for basically implying that the person is a liar when they did not comment on your time table, or perhaps ignoring your request altogether? I mean, now that others have confirmed it, shouldn’t you? Or perhaps you may want to doubt their truthfulness as well?

My point here being, how you ask something is often more important than what you ask for.


muffinscheden

No one confirmed it until after I posted that, and if I had posted something as controversial as that I would have checked in on it the next day to say the least. Nor did I ever say that I believed him to be a liar, cheat, scoundrel, etc

But anyway how did he pick 12 guilds out of the 300 or so guilds on the server?

I can just hear the thought process "hmm lets invite the leaders of what we believe to be the top 4% of the guilds on this server and expect 100% of the population to follow this" I don't see the logic behind this.

[maddmatt70]

No one confirmed it until after I posted that, and if I had posted something as controversial as that I would have checked in on it the next day to say the least. Nor did I ever say that I believed him to be a liar, cheat, scoundrel, etc

But anyway how did he pick 12 guilds out of the 300 or so guilds on the server?

I can just hear the thought process "hmm lets invite the leaders of what we believe to be the top 4% of the guilds on this server and expect 100% of the population to follow this" I don't see the logic behind this.

It sounds like it was based on the size of the guilds on the server. I doubt it had to do with the top 4% of the guilds on the server as there are some excellent small guilds on our server... I personnaly have characters in three excellent small guilds - the largest being about 9 members and the smallest having one (go cdc).....

[Ninety]

It sounds like it was based on the size of the guilds on the server. I doubt it had to do with the top 4% of the guilds on the server as there are some excellent small guilds on our server... I personnaly have characters in three excellent small guilds - the largest being about 9 members and the smallest having one (go cdc).....

Even if it was based off size, i believe Dwarven Defenders could probably make up there in the top, where as my other smaller guild (that are you are a part of :P) Zergers annon would definately not be close. Fallen Heros has a lot of members as well, not sure how Ashen is fairing now a days, but I know I still see a lot of them running around too (all Riedra guilds, except zergers)

[muffinlad]

No one confirmed it until after I posted that, and if I had posted something as controversial as that I would have checked in on it the next day to say the least. Nor did I ever say that I believed him to be a liar, cheat, scoundrel, etc

But anyway how did he pick 12 guilds out of the 300 or so guilds on the server?

I can just hear the thought process "hmm lets invite the leaders of what we believe to be the top 4% of the guilds on this server and expect 100% of the population to follow this" I don't see the logic behind this.

The implication was there, and quite clear. You challenged him not just on the logical strength of his assumptions, but the very core of his story, i.e. that such a meeting even happened in the first place. That is the same as calling him a liar, and the hair's bit of difference in saying it out loud, or merely implying it by your arguments is spurious at best.

Your follow up "reminder" for not showing up to what you considered an appropriate timeline of response further demonstrates my point. Even if I consider it in the most optimistic light, it was a challenge by you, that was answered, and you at the very least should have the grace to acknowledge that the person was in fact, telling the truth...at least regarding the particulars.

That you may or may not have had time to respond to the follow up postings is all part of the delicious irony that is forum posting, and I would refer you to your second post on the matter.

That being said...I ENTIRELY AGREE WITH YOU regarding the results, and conclusions one should draw from such an agreement, and its level of impact on a server based community. The spread of voluntary standards, as launched by a “Cabal” and then never publicized or formally agreed on at anything other than a “Raid Meeting” has all the power of toilet paper in a hurricane. It might get tossed though the side of a barn, but more than likely, it is just going to cause a mess all over your yard.

My final thought(s) on the matter is a bit of a rehash. Stating that you doubted that such a meeting ever took place is “fair argument” only if you are willing to admit when you are wrong. You being wrong about the meeting does not in any way lessen the strength of your other arguments, BUT, and most importantly, it would not have improved the strength of your arguments had you been right!

The concept of multi-guild agreement regarding loot, in execution and vision was fatally flawed from the get go, as many people have pointed out. Calling into question the veracity of such a meeting, and then dictating response times to suit your posts borders on rude, and in no way helps your argument. It may seem I am trying to pick a fight with you, but it is really quite the reverse. You had the right idea, but the excess distracts.

muffinlad

[maddmatt70]

Even if it was based off size, i believe Dwarven Defenders could probably make up there in the top, where as my other smaller guild (that are you are a part of :P) Zergers annon would definately not be close. Fallen Heros has a lot of members as well, not sure how Ashen is fairing now a days, but I know I still see a lot of them running around too (all Riedra guilds, except zergers)

You mention some Riedra guilds. To be honest Old Riedra Guilds do not have some of the bigger guilds (in terms of size i.e. number of members) on our server; in fact, they might not have any guilds in the top ten in terms of size.

[Sensei]

You mention some Riedra guilds. To be honest Old Riedra Guilds do not have some of the bigger guilds (in terms of size i.e. number of members) on our server; in fact, they might not have any guilds in the top ten in terms of size.

Nope

[Dark-Star]

My recollection of what the guy did was to count the amount of people in each guild at a specific interval for a week or two.

Although this yields the most populous guilds, it certainly does not equate to the guilds that raid or host raids the most. There are some mid and small sized guilds with very competent and active players.

Unless everyone buys in to such a policy, which will never happen, the policy will just set someone up to get screwed over eventually.

[Mithran]

To address why I hadn't discussed why this or that guild wasn't in the meeting, I have no information about who was invited, who was there, why they were invited, or what else was discussed.

I took one of my clerics on a Titan raid for the group, but that's the extent of my involvement with them.

Another reason I didn't address it is because it was off topic.

[Mithran]

I think my own behavior in pugs will reflect that outlined by jkm.

[Ghaldar]

Whenever I pull raid loot I ask myself "Can I use this?" No? "Can I anyone I like use this?" No? "Roll for my loot if you want it. I will also take bribes."

Does this meet the standards of the Khyber Raid Loot Protocol?

Depends......can I bribe you with ale or Dwarven spirits?

[Ghaldar]

You mention some Riedra guilds. To be honest Old Riedra Guilds do not have some of the bigger guilds (in terms of size i.e. number of members) on our server; in fact, they might not have any guilds in the top ten in terms of size.

Who knows about size ...hell I do not even know how big the MAC is now. I do know we have over 222 registered people on our guild forums....peak times 20-30 folks logged in and off peak around 10. Is that big? We have run on a raid night two full dragon raids...well one spot was puged out. Does this make the MAC a large guild? As I said I have no idea how big the rest of you are.....and honestly who cares really. have fun and do not forget to stretch and stay hydrated.

[Altarboy]

Turbine already put rules in place for raid loot.

1. You can keep your loot
2. You can choose to give it to someone else on the raid


You guys tried to add/change the rules to the result of some raid loot fixing scheme. I am not surprised that it fell apart because in the end the only rules that matter are #s 1 and 2 listed above.

I agree with this guy
for the most part but if someone needed the loot and I gave it to them and then the just traded it I'd be a little annoyed and most likely would never pug with them again

[Altarboy]

So, now do we need to expect you to come back and apologize for basically implying that the person is a liar when they did not comment on your time table, or perhaps ignoring your request altogether? I mean, now that others have confirmed it, shouldn’t you? Or perhaps you may want to doubt their truthfulness as well?

My point here being, how you ask something is often more important than what you ask for.


muffinscheden

Um....what?...::applies this misguided logic::

Can I please have your +5 holy flaming burst paralizin vorpal long sword?...pretty please

[Riot]

were in a Reaver pug,

That's where things went wrong....

KOI is good peeps. But PuG Raiding is a problem waiting to happen.
It's a self inflicted wound waiting to be opened.