All classes should be able to trip

[KaKa]

One of the more baffling things in DDO is that only some of the classes are granted the ability to trip and to sunder. This is not fair and all classes should be allowed to throw that trip button or sunder button onto their hot bar and use it if they so please. Seems kinda odd that I can have and take the stunning blow feat yet I still cannot figure out for the life of me how to trip.

Shouldn't be hard to add to the game the ability for all classes to have this feature shared.

[llevenbaxx]

Not positive on this but they may have taken the basic trip off some classes due to the removal of attacks of opportunity. In PnP if you do not have combat expertise and improved trip, everytime you go to make a trip attempt, the trippee gets a free attack on the character making the attempt. They may have removed it from the non-martial classes because of this.

In my experience trying to trip in this game with anyone who isnt spec'ed (CE, Imp. Trip, enhancements) for it just wasted their attack, as most everything will make their check. If you do not have the the simple trip im guessing you wont have any of the complimenting boosts. Not saying its right but...

[Staedtler]

in this game with anyone who isnt spec'ed (CE, Imp. Trip, enhancements) for it just wasted their attack, as most everything will make their check. If you do not have the the simple trip im guessing you wont have any of the complimenting boosts. Not saying its right but...

If by "wasted" you mean "still get an attack roll and do normal damage even if the trip fails." Tripping in PnP and DDO aren't really very similar. There's no AOO, all weapons can trip, the tripper can't be tripped if the trippee saves, you have to hit their normal AC rather than touch AC.

And which classes don't get trip as a "bonus feat"? Arcanes and clerics come to mind. What about rogues and bards? Is trip tied to having a good BAB?

[Khalai]

Could be wrong here, but I thought you got trip at BAB 1

[Hvymetal]

Could be wrong here, but I thought you got trip at BAB 1

I'll have to check, I believe you are right about trip, I know my rogue gets trip but not sunder.

[samagee]

My rogue can trip, but my fighter has combat exp and imp trip. Not to mention the str for the str check after the attack.

[Eladrin]

Interesting. I'll take a look at the granted abilities - everyone should have the lot of them at BAB +1.

Edit: It seems that everyone gets Defensive Fighting, Trip, and Sunder at BAB +1, except for the exception of Rogues who get Trip at BAB +0 and the other two at BAB +1. Since I certainly don't want to take Trip away from the first level Rogues, I'll be updating this so Rogues will end up getting all three at BAB +0.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Interesting. I'll take a look at the granted abilities - everyone should have the lot of them at BAB +1.

Edit: It seems that everyone gets Defensive Fighting, Trip, and Sunder at BAB +1, except for the exception of Rogues who get Trip at BAB +0 and the other two at BAB +1. Since I certainly don't want to take Trip away from the first level Rogues, I'll be updating this so Rogues will end up getting all three at BAB +0.

My cleric/5 doesn't have Trip or Sunder. My BAB is +3. When I go to the Feats window, and click on 'show unavailable' they don't even appear greyed out. Maybe I 'have them' but if I can't drag them to my toolbar I can't use them!

Garth

[paul1devries]

I want the trip capabilities that all the Hyenas in The Caravn quest have! They seem to pretty much hit all of the time on anyone!

[parvo]

My cleric/5 doesn't have Trip or Sunder. My BAB is +3. When I go to the Feats window, and click on 'show unavailable' they don't even appear greyed out. Maybe I 'have them' but if I can't drag them to my toolbar I can't use them!

Garth

Why am I not surprised?

[Symar-FangofLloth]

I want the trip capabilities that all the Hyenas in The Caravn quest have! They seem to pretty much hit all of the time on anyone!

Dogs, wolves, and some felines get free trip attempts on every bite attack. Hence the massive tripping by wolves and hyenas.

[Staedtler]

Dogs, wolves, and some felines get free trip attempts on every bite attack. Hence the massive tripping by wolves and hyenas.

There used to be a bug where wolves and hobgoblins (see:Tangleroot) could initiate trip attempts without actually hitting you. I'm pretty sure it was fixed a while back.

[Gol]

I have a cleric lvl 2 with no trip, too.

[Gol]

There used to be a bug where wolves and hobgoblins (see:Tangleroot) could initiate trip attempts without actually hitting you. I'm pretty sure it was fixed a while back.

It still happens. They fixed giants, but the gobs still get me quite frequently. That is, unless there's some other way I end up on my back while still at full health.

[Barumar]

Dogs, wolves, and some felines get free trip attempts on every bite attack. Hence the massive tripping by wolves and hyenas.

We were running the Desert Caravan on Elite yesterday, and it seems like we spent half the time on our backs! Pretty sad that the ONLY Mob's we were afraid of were the Hyenas!

Barumar

[Shade]

Interesting. I'll take a look at the granted abilities - everyone should have the lot of them at BAB +1.

Edit: It seems that everyone gets Defensive Fighting, Trip, and Sunder at BAB +1, except for the exception of Rogues who get Trip at BAB +0 and the other two at BAB +1. Since I certainly don't want to take Trip away from the first level Rogues, I'll be updating this so Rogues will end up getting all three at BAB +0.

Would be nice.

But no only "melee" type classes get trip, (fighter, ranger, barbarian, rogue) and only full BAB classes get sunder.

That leaves out clerics, wizards, sorcerers and i think bards.

[ManinBlaq]

Aye .. no love for Bards .

[Ustice]

I mentioned this when enhancements were being changed, but I think that this is relevant now as well. In the DMG, it talks about feats, and how they purposely did not make the feat requirements based on a class, but on features so that they could be used by as many different compatible classes as possible. You are already talking about this so that we can expand our build options, but there is one part that is missing: specifically, enhancements. I think that many of the lines of enhancements that are available to specific classes should be expanded so that they can be used by more classes. For instance, there are melee builds that exist that only have one level of a melee class, and yet the are restricted from having access to the enhancements that are available to the other melee builds. Why shouldn't clerics and bards have access to the attack action boost (albeit at a higher level... heck same with wizards and sorcerers at an even higher level).

Here are some suggestions for conversion that would really help us out, and make for more diverse builds:

Current Requirement --> Suggested New Requirement
Class Level --> Character Level
Wizard/Sorcerer --> Ability to cast arcane spells of a certain level
Cleric --> Ability to cast Divine Spells / Turn Undead
Barbarian --> Ability to rage
Fighter/Barbarian/Ranger --> base attack bonus
Rogue --> Ability to Sneak Attack.

[llevenbaxx]

I mentioned this when enhancements were being changed, but I think that this is relevant now as well. In the DMG, it talks about feats, and how they purposely did not make the feat requirements based on a class, but on features so that they could be used by as many different compatible classes as possible. You are already talking about this so that we can expand our build options, but there is one part that is missing: specifically, enhancements. I think that many of the lines of enhancements that are available to specific classes should be expanded so that they can be used by more classes. For instance, there are melee builds that exist that only have one level of a melee class, and yet the are restricted from having access to the enhancements that are available to the other melee builds. Why shouldn't clerics and bards have access to the attack action boost (albeit at a higher level... heck same with wizards and sorcerers at an even higher level).

.

I always wondered why it wasnt implimented more like this also. I guess I cant argue with the race related ones, not that they are even remotely consistent in power between the races. I guess I always just wished they made the enhancements more like the feat system too, a universal pool of character customization options. Still have all applicable prereqs for the different lines, just change the class type requirements to stat or something like that. Why cant a fighter, a master with weapons, also learn to better strike where it hurts(ftr crit mastery). Not saying I hate the current system, Ive gotten quite used to it but it is responsible for many of the more blatent class to class imbalances though. Compare a palys or even moreso a (ranged)rangers' enhancements to that of the ftr or barb. Even Steven?

[BlueLightBandit]

Why cant a fighter, a master with weapons, also learn to better strike where it hurts(ftr crit mastery).

Who says they can't? Don't forget we're only at lvl 14... no telling what they'll add through lvl 20+.