PUGS 'n' stuff

[Lillitheris]

So.. there's this one thing I've been studying since the merge. Just observing; I don't have any hard data to back my numbers up.

Anyway. I live happily in PUG-nation, meaning none of my characters are in real guilds. I do have friends I run around with, but PUGging is my main form of questing. The subject of my "study" is the amount of people from different servers in a PUG. Meaning, how many persons are from Ghallanda/Fernia/Lhazaar. I use guilds to determine which server the player is from. I know, not very scientific
I can't tell whether a strange guild is from Lhazaar or Ghallanda, hence I only count the number of people from guilds that I remember from Fernia. Again, not very scientific. However, I've noticed an interesting pattern. The rough numbers are as follows: ~75% of the PUGs I've done have had more than 1/3 Fernia-born players. More than one third being (for the math impaired ) 3+ in a normal group and 5+ on a raid. Furthermore, I only remember 2-3 quests where I've been the only Fernian. I do remember more than a few all-Fernian POP runs though.

What does this mean?
Fernians PUG more than Ghallandans and Lhazaarites? Were there large RP-guilds on Ghallanda/Lhazaar? A lot of people have joined Fernian guilds since the merge? I sub-consciously join PUGs that have more Fernians in them? Ghallanda was very elitist/guild-based? Lhazaar was very elitist/guild-based? A lot of people from either Ghallanda or Lhazaar have quit after the merge? Did Ghallanda/Lhazaar have a lot of elite/large guilds? We ran different quests/raids on Fernia than you did on Ghallanda/Lhazaar?
I don't know, but let me list some of the things I've noticed:

• We PUGged a lot back on Fernia. I've never been in a guild and I've managed just fine. It never got the point where one "must join a guild".
• Neither Ghallanda, Lhazaar or Fernia seem to have uber elitist guilds. Elitist in a bad way.
• Neither Ghallanda, Lhazaar or Fernia seem to have a lot of elite guilds. Elite in a good way.
• The few elite guilds do PUGs - at least raids.
• Roleplaying guilds are few and far between.
• The only large guild I can think of is the Old Timer's Guild (are they from Ghallanda or Lhazaar?). Anyway, I've been in PUGs with their members so they can't be the only reason.
• To my knowledge there are no underground guilds, which run anonymous 24/7 and only do quests with guildies.

So whaddya guys and gals think? Am I just delusional or does my "study" have a grain of truth in it?

[Killbilly]

Ghallanda has always been pretty guild-centric. I believe I heard the same thing about Lhazaar.

[Lillitheris]

Thanks for the info

I have always been very interested in inter-server dynamics. Way back when they first opened Risia, I went there just to find out how people from other servers play. What kind of tactics they use, do they exploit the same safe spots we do etc.

By the way, some of my runs from yesterday:

• PoP 4/6 Fernia
• Reaver 8/12 Fernia (7 items dropped btw )
• Chains 4/6 Fernia

et cetera

Oh and I'd love to know are non-Fernian guilds from Lhazaar or Ghallanda.
Exodus, Transgression, Sanctus Armata, Circle of Might, Old Timers' Guild, Evilempire, Eutopia, the list goes on.

[Oreg]

I think that you will find that there are many guilds that have 10-15 very active players in them. At any given time you will see some portion of them online. Most of them probably short man quests so that if a guild member logs in, they will have space. Most of them probably invite PUGers for raids. I know it is the case for Oblivion and at least 5-8 other guilds that have been around in some form or another since the beginning.

I don't know that I have seen any differentiation between original Ghallandrians and the immigrants that came after the server merge

[Aspenor]

On Argonessan my guild will run clericless and shortmanned before we invite PUG'ers we don't know. It's definitely a server culture mechanic.

[hannika]

lhazaar was a very small server, which is prolly why you don't see a TON of them like you see five million old timers running around which i'm pretty sure came from ghallanda. i think i subconciously play with other fernians. i guess just because i recognize the names more and tend to join their groups more when i'm not conciously looking for friends/guildies to play with who are about 95% fernian. i do run with a group of lhazzar boys though that make the merge worth it to me cuz i <3 them greatly, but i also learned that lhazzar does some stuff backwards from fernia (though they think we're backwards) it's kinda fun to discover those differences, there are a lot more similarities though.

[Oreg]

On Argonessan my guild will run clericless and shortmanned before we invite PUG'ers we don't know. It's definitely a server culture mechanic.

We are definitely more likely to do this with capped characters. Levelling up we tend to invite people as long as they don't slow us down.

[Aspenor]

We are definitely more likely to do this with capped characters. Levelling up we tend to invite people as long as they don't slow us down.

Not us, usually, unless we feel like shocking some random strangers with antics and attempting quests that no PUG would ever dream of doing at their current level

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

I pug...on my lowbies.
I is a way to meet people, see different play styles and customs and get a feel for the place...sans commitment.
Beats taking on all the argo and waiting until I can solo (thus lose xp) on my lowbie squishies.
You never know who you will meet in a PUG. Could be your new nemisis...Could be your new ally.

I make sure that I am preped for it...Or I do not do it.

[rpasell]

Oh and I'd love to know are non-Fernian guilds from Lhazaar or Ghallanda.
Exodus, Transgression, Sanctus Armata, Circle of Might, Old Timers' Guild, Evilempire, Eutopia, the list goes on.

Circle of Might (aka Commies) and Eutopia were Lhazaar, i think EvilEmpire was as well.

[KatanAztar]

Oh and I'd love to know are non-Fernian guilds from Lhazaar or Ghallanda.
Exodus, Transgression, Sanctus Armata, Circle of Might, Old Timers' Guild, Evilempire, Eutopia, the list goes on.

Exodus, Transgression, and OTG came from native Ghallanda

[SaberMonkey]

Sanctus Armata, Circle of Might, Eutopia, and Evil Empire were all Lhazzar. I have been pugging alot since I don't play as much as i used to. It is cool to see different tactics and what not that the other severs used. I think we are melding well together and I am actually enjoying pugging more than I used to. Although there is always the group that makes you go "Wow, you gotta be kidding me!"

[philo]

I think it has alot to do with the raid loot changes. I never pugged when i was on fernia (unless i was leveling up an alt). Now i jump in pug raids all the time since its not logical to short man raids. Since nobody does abbot at the moment, and all the other raids are so easy, any ole pug group will do. Before if we had 8 guildies raid rdy we'd split into a few groups to get more loot. .
Once people start getting the new abbot changes down there will be a time period when it is primarily only run in guild.

[Deaths_ward]

I've joined a guild, that I guess is somewhat prominent. They seem to be rather community oriented, but as I as a PUG monkey through level 14 on 1 toon, and 12 on another, I can't exactly shake that self preservation.

I think that the reason you see less PUG groups at higher levels is that People who are purely PuG runners tend to be less concerned with how everyone is doing, and more about themselves, as they don't have a guild full of people who might pass stuff of, or do those lovely charity events. I know that until I joined the guild I'm in I wasn't someone who shared well with others, nor was I exactly friendly when it came to my loot and other such 'supplies', and I find it hard to shake that, "Make sure I survive, and if everyone else does cool", mentality.

Not sure if that's what you're looking for but that's my input.

[issiana]

i have often wondered if i'm in the minority a i only ever pug, and will take ANYONE who wants to come into my groups.
pugging is fun as you get to meet new faces, some groups have being quite, some zergy and some so funny i can hardly control my character due to me laughing so hard!

I have gotten by with all my characters by not being in a guild, mostly this is due to my play times not being lining up with any guild i have looked into. Sure i have friends i'll play with and some guilds i'll tag along with, but on the whole i'm a pugger. To date since i moved to lhazaar then ghallanda i've found only good pugs. The pugging on argo i found VERY lacking and can hence understand those TF's ppl saying what they did over there.

In short pugging is a good way to go on ghallanda atm, I cant say the same for other servers though.

[Lillitheris]

Thank you everybody for the great info

I'm trying to connect the loose ends here...
I see a lot of "Fernia forever!"-type stuff on people's bios and sigs. I don't see nearly as much "Ghallanda/Lhazaar forever!"-slogans. Maybe we developed a stronger sense of server camraderie through PUGging on Fernia *shrug*

I also hear a lot of "God I miss Fernia"-type stuff in PUGs. This might be related to the fact that Fernians PUG a lot and many Ghallandans/Lhazaarites run in their guild-only groups. But I still find it odd that I have NEVER heard a non-Fernian say "I miss Ghallanda/Lhazaar so much".

Any thoughts?

[Aspenor]

The pugging on argo i found VERY lacking and can hence understand those TF's ppl saying what they did over there.

PUGs on Argo are like playing slots. You might get really lucky and hit the jackpot. But, as the alphabetically prevalent server on the server lists upon the initial boot of the game, we pull a lot of dregs (and also, a lot of kids, this is the main issue actually). Now, TF has a couple younger individuals, one 14 and one 15, but each of them are fairly mature and are definitely an asset to their party.

I've learned that having a good friends list is a must now that guild-only playtime is very hit and miss, and I've been running with the regulars from the other established guilds as well.

Overally, comparatively, Ghallanda is a better server for PUGs, undoubtedly. I think it's the whole "old man server" thing Mature and competent players are usually easy to get along with.

[Oreg]

Overally, comparatively, Ghallanda is a better server for PUGs, undoubtedly. I think it's the whole "old man server" thing Mature and competent players are usually easy to get along with.

Good point. I have always maintained that way back in beta when The Old Timers Guild announced their home on Ghallandra was one of the best days for this server. Even if you did not want to join them, you knew that mature players took notice and gravitated towards it about as fast as the younger kids took heed and ran from it. As as a result there is an extremely large population of mature and easygoing players on this server.

[Lillitheris]

Good point. I have always maintained that way back in beta when The Old Timers Guild announced their home on Ghallandra was one of the best days for this server. Even if you did not want to join them, you knew that mature players took notice and gravitated towards it about as fast as the younger kids took heed and ran from it. As as a result there is an extremely large population of mature and easygoing players on this server.

I joined two monts after launch so this is all news to me. Combined with the fact that Fernia was also very easy-going (save a few elitist guilds), this seems like a reasonable explanation

[The_Saint]

Good topic for conversation. While I cannot speak for Fernia or Ghall. Lhazzar was always very guild oriented. As a small server, most of the players knew each other but still held to the guilded principles. I think that Merlasks "server survey" captured a lot of the essence of Lhazzar and can only assume she was fairly accurate to the other servers as well.

Here is the link to her survey.
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...0&postcount=13