Where do we go from here? 12/2 f/p builds

[Oreg]

Ok so many moons ago I jumped on the Ftr 10 / Pal 2 Drow Lawful good build and you know what? I Liked it. I took him to 12/2 at the level cap and still play him as one of my regulars. The more I look at mod 6 approaching I wonder what to do with this guy when the level cap increases. He is the standard 52 ac 1hslash and board guy. He doesnt lead the kill counts (**** Barbs) but he is a solid all around fighter.

Any ideas where you are taking yours?

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Well, there are a few choices:

Pal 3 - Divine Health (Disease Immunity) & Fear Immunity, Enhancement: Resistance/Bulwark of Good 1, Enhancement: +1 Lay On Hands
Pal 4 - Level 1 Spells, Turn Undead, Divine Favor +1/+1

Fgt 13 - Enhancement: Item Defense 4, Flanking Mastery 3,
Fgt 14 - Bonus Feat, Enhancement: Extra Action Boost 2

Rog 1 - 1d6 Sneak Attack
Rog 2 - Evasion, Enhancement: DEX +1

Rng 1 - Bow Strength, Favored Enemy #1, Enhancement: Favored Damage 1
Rng 2 - Two-Weapon Fighting, Rapid Shot, Enhancement: DEX +1

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So given those break-points, I think it really comes down to:

Paladin 3 vs. Rogue 2 - Disease & Fear Immunity vs. Evasion & Skill Points.

Paladin 3 is very enticing, as the Disease and Fear Immunity is very handy and can often free up an item slot (or a carried item). Paladin 4 is less important, as you will likely get so few SP that casting DF is not really possible, without a SP item... and DF breaks CE... and it is only +1/+1 at Paladin 4.

Rogue 2 is also a very nice option. +3 Reflex Saves, Evasion, 1d6 Sneak Attack, Dex +1 Enhancement, and lots of Skill Points (UMD?), at the cost of -1 BAB & -8 HP. If you can get your Reflex Save over 20 with that boost, then Evasion becomes VERY handy vs. enemy spellcasters and traps.

Fighter 14 grants a Bonus Feat - A nice option, but it is not clear if there will be a feat worth taking. There is a normal Feat @ 15 anyways, so are there 2 feats out there worth taking, one of which being a Fighter Bonus Feat? That depends on your exact build.

If it was a 3-level bump, then I would almost certainly recommend 1 Pal/2 Rog for the 3 levels to get the best of both worlds... but it remains to be seen if there will be sufficient reason to go Fighter for the Feat or for any future higher-level Enhancement.

[Oreg]

For arguments sake would you see yourself ending at 15 ftr / 3 Pal / 2 Rog?

I was thinking along these lines myself.

[Slayer918]

For level 20 I would probably go 14/3/3 (15 fighter enhancements not withstanding)...

For level 16 I would probably go 12/3/1 fighter/paly/rogue... especially if you've put skill points into UMD as you'll likely be able to get nearly full ranks

or

Maybe 13/3 using K.I.S.S. rules I think this platform would give the most flexibility to adapt at level 18 and 20 etc...

[Deaths_ward]

If I can find a decent mithral breast plate I'm going 2 rogue.

Current saves run along the lines of
-FORT: +21
-REFLEX: +19
-WILL: +14(Sad I know)

with the 2 levels of rogue and a resistance +4, or +5 Item I'm looking at a fighter that could probably pulled the evasion zone in crucible with a GH buff, as well as some nice UMD for race restricted items.

Other wise i'm going 2 more of pali.

[Borror0]

I'm going straight fighter from now on, at least for a while.... but they better add some good feat soon...

[Blazer]

For arguments sake would you see yourself ending at 15 ftr / 3 Pal / 2 Rog?

I was thinking along these lines myself.

Unless Fighter 15 gets some amazing enhancements, I would stick to conventional wisdom and keep the fighter levels at even numbers. If you are interested in going 3 pal, I would try 14 F/3 P/3 Ro. You keep the same BAB, but get another level of rogue for more skill points and an additional 1d6 sneak attack.

******

My fighter/pally hybrid is currently 10F/4P. I built her with enough WIS so that she actually has a decent amount of SP at her level. Divine Favor is the only spell she carries. I think of it as 10 charges of Divine Favor clickies. I'm taking her to 12 F/6 P for sure. At that point I'll have GWS and DF will be +2/+2. I'm sure her SP pool will be around 150 by then. The real question for me is what to do with those final two levels? Rogue for evasion and skill points? Ranger for FE and some nifty enhancements? Monk for evasion and a different look to the "evasion tank" build?

[Borror0]

Unless Fighter 15 gets some amazing enhancements, I would stick to conventional wisdom and keep the fighter levels at even numbers.

I would give the same advice.

If you are interested in going 3 pal, I would try 14 F/3 P/3 Ro. You keep the same BAB, but get another level of rogue for more skill points and an additional 1d6 sneak attack.

Oreg, here's the question you should ask yourself.. do you really miss Fear and Disease Immunity?

If you do, go 14/3/3... if not, I'd say 16/2/2.

[Blazer]

Oreg, here's the question you should ask yourself.. do you really miss Fear and Disease Immunity?

If you do, go 14/3/3... if not, I'd say 16/2/2.

Yep. That's the crux of the issue Oreg. Borror0's character is a 12/2 split, mine is a 10/4 split. I'm sure Borror0 can count on one hand the number of times in high level play he's been hit with Fear or Disease and I bet he carries pots or clickies for both occasions. Obviously that's stuff I don't need to carry. At high end stuff you've probably always got Ghero running so that takes care of your Fear Immunity. If a quest is completely rampant with disease, you can probably find room to slip on an item. Personally, I prefer to not have to rely on that stuff or not rolling a 1; my luck with the DDO dice is horrible, especially for attack/saves.

Other benefits to the 3 paladin split, based on the current enhancement system - you'll get access to an extra LOH as well as an additional +1 to your AC/Saves aura all for 2 AP each.

[Oreg]

I have to agree with you guys. I think 16/2/2 is where I am going to go. I went with fairly high CHA and pumped UMD so the rogue levels and higher UMD would benefit more than the fear and disease benefits and I do see some benefit in 2 more fighter levels.

Thanks for all your insight.

[Riekan]

I'm working on a new tank that was slated for 12 fighter and 2 paladin. Level 8 now and thinking about the future with the level cap raise. I'm thinking of going 12 fighter/3 paladin/1 rogue by 16. This will get the extra lay on hands/ac/resist enhancements as well as the fear/disease immunity, unlock UMD (I was putting points into this anyway) and set up the ability to go for evasion down the road if I think it becomes necessary. Still sort of on the fence though...

[Mithran]

Finduilas is 11 Paladin/2 Rogue/1 Fighter. I expect to take another level of paladin and another level of fighter, w Mod 6.

Anguirel is currently 1 Rogue/1 Paladin/1 Fighter, and I'm intending to take her to 1 Rogue/2 Paladin/11 Fighter with basically the same Skill point distribution, and once the cap is raised to 16, taking another level of Rogue and another level of Paladin. Since I pulled a +3 Charisma Tome on Finduilas (incredibly lucky), there's not much point in making a drow version, so I thought I'd make a complementary Fighter version. That'll mean GTWF and WWA. Should be nice with two shortswords.

[Emili]

This all depends on whether the devs truely intend on taking the game into epic levels latter... as every few splashes or multi-class hybrid eats into the possible number of epic abilities and bonus feats available at epic levels.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Finduilas is 11 Paladin/2 Rogue/1 Fighter. I expect to take another level of paladin and another level of fighter, w Mod 6.

Anguirel is currently 1 Rogue/1 Paladin/1 Fighter, and I'm intending to take her to 1 Rogue/2 Paladin/11 Fighter with basically the same Skill point distribution, and once the cap is raised to 16, taking another level of Rogue and another level of Paladin. Since I pulled a +3 Charisma Tome on Finduilas (incredibly lucky), there's not much point in making a drow version, so I thought I'd make a complementary Fighter version. That'll mean GTWF and WWA. Should be nice with two shortswords.

Mithran, I am curious as to your reason for planning to take Pal 12 & Fighter 2 instead of Fighter 3 (2 Fighter Levels). I am wondering what benefits you see in Paladin 12 over Fighter 3. Fighter 3 offers FAM & FTSM (but not a whole lot else, except Fighter 4 & 5 with the following Cap Raise). I don't, personally, see what Paladin 12 offers?

[Mithran]

Fighter 3 won't get me any new Feats, and my point with this build was to get the most out of Feats while primarily sticking to Paladin. The point of Str won't do anything for me unless I'm luck enough to hit a +3 Str. tome, but that's so unlikely that it's like drawing to an inside straight. Maybe taking two levels of Fighter would be a good idea for her. I hadn't been especially worried about it, but the default for her was to take as many paladin levels as possible. She's paladin, at her core.
Maybe I should think about this for a while.

Armor Mastery isn't much of an issue. She's 24/24/20/20/18/24, so unless she manages to pull a +3 Str Tome, the additional +1 to Str and +1 to Str via Fighter Str won't do anything for her. Maybe two more levels of Fighter would be a good idea, but I'd intended her to be primarily a Paladin with minimal other levels for kind of an optimization. She wears White Dragonscale armor, and it's hard for me to imagine her getting better armor.

Looking forward to level 20, 12/2/2 means Finduilas could go 16/2/2. I'd really intended her to maximize the benefits of multiclassing with as few Fighter/Rogue levels as possible.