Fighter Build Request

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

I have a build idea in my mind, but I want to see what the "community" would come up with, to see if I have another option for my Fighter build.

Items I have on-hand:
+5 Mithral Full Plate
+5 Mithral Tower Shield RR: Human
+5 Mithral Heavy Shield
32-point build unlocked

Assumptions:
+1 Tomes - As many as needed
+2 Tomes - 1750 Tome only please
+3 Tomes - None.
+6 Stat Items - As many as needed
Raid Loot - None.

Build Idea:
I want to take maximum advantage of my +5 MFP, and build an AC Monster build... Pure Fighter or Fighter/Paladin (10/3, 8/6, or 7/7) is what is in my mind, but I am open to other ideas. I want to have the highest possible standing (unbuffed) AC I can (CE is ok to count, buffs/clickies are not), yet I still want to have good DPS.

What I was thinking about was a 7/7 split, going Human with CE, Improved Trip, WF, WS, IC, Toughness, Kopesh, and either SM/ISM/ISB or Least/Lesser Dragonmark of Passage & SB, or possibly even TWF/ITWF/GTWF... or alternately drop Kopesh and go PA/Cleave/GreatCleave (Dwarf)... I am not really sure what I want to do. I like the Human idea for the +1 Feat & MTS, but Dwarf for Tactics, DAM, and Dwarven Axe Attack/Damage going Two-Handed w/ Cleave/Great Cleave has some good DPS potential, with dropping back to DA and Shield for AC...

I am really open to idea here... I am even considering going TWF with dual-Kopesh (even with the to-hit penalty)...

But given the +5 MFP & +5 MTS (RR: Human)... I might even be able to go Dwarf with a decent Cha Item & SF: UMD to be able to equip it... I think it is a DC 16, so that isn't that hard to do - 8.5 (Ranks) + 3 (Golden Cartouche) + 4 (GH) + 1 (12 Cha) = 16.5... And if it's 18, then I need 16 Cha (10 Base + 6 Item / 1 Tome + 5 Item)

EDIT: Some of my original build ideas can be found in this old thread http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=115916
Not that any of these have to be used... but they were ideas I am still tumbling around in my head.

[Jundak]

Well...if you go 10/3/1 Fighter/Pally/Rogue, you could max out your AC potential (assuming a 20 dex and Fighter/Dwarf Armor mastery) and nail a pretty high UMD for your Mith Tower Shield (Tower Shield Mastery I) without having to rely on buffs at level 14 to equip your shield.

If you are considering using the CE feat line, you'll be required to have a min. Int of 13, so this would also make sure you have the Skill Points necessary to hit a maxxed UMD, without sinking too much into Cha.

At level 14 you would be looking at:

10 Base
13 +5 MFP
9 +5 Mith. TS
5 20 Dex (Could go higher)
5 CE
2 Chaosguarde
3 Spec Ops
1 Dodge
3 Barkskin Potion
1 Haste
2 Pally Aura (Bulwark I)

= 54 AC

There are ways to increase that more, but it would all be dependant on your playstyle (like using Mobility to full effectiveness, for instance).

[binnsr]

You could always make him human and not bother with UMD.

(or you could send my fighter that shield since he's human and doesn't have one )

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

You could always make him human and not bother with UMD.

(or you could send my fighter that shield since he's human and doesn't have one )

LOL... a nice try... but I think I'll pass on that offer!

[Obitus]

I'm just back from a very long break from the game (left back when the level cap was still 10), but I thought I'd give this a shot just for kicks. Obviously, I'm not the best person to be giving advice, but I have been giving a similar build a lot of thought over the last few days, and I figure it doesn't hurt to talk about this stuff with those in the know.

(I'm going to use Dworkin's build posts as a template.)

__________________________________________________ __________________
Elf
7 Fighter/7 Paladin

STR: 17 + 3 (Levels) + 2 (Fighter's STR 2) + 2 (1750 Tome) + 6 (STR) = 30 (+10)
DEX: 15 + 1 (Tome) + 6 (Item) = 22 (+6)
CON: 11 + 1 (Tome) + 6 (Item) = 18 (+4)
INT: 13 + 1 (Tome) = 14 (+2)
WIS: 9 + 1 (Tome) + 6 (Item) = 16 (+3)
CHA: 11 + 1 (Tome) + 2 (Paladin CHA 2) + 6 (Item) = 20 (+5)

AC:
--------------------------------------
10 - Base
13 - +5 Mithral Full Plate (Armor)
6 - Dex Bonus (using FAM 2 & FTSM 2) (Dex)
9 - +5 Mithral Tower Shield (Shield)
5 - Protection Item (Deflection)
2 - Chaosguarde (Dodge)
3 - Chattering Ring (Dodge)
3 - Barkskin Potion
3 - Paladin Aura (Misc)
1 - Dodge Feat
--------------------------------------
55 AC - Standing, Unbuffed, Unstanced
--------------------------------------
1 - Haste Potion
5 - Combat Expertise
--------------------------------------
61 AC - Self-Buffed & Stanced
--------------------------------------
2 - Recitation
2 - Ranger's Barkskin
1 - Paladin's Aura
--------------------------------------
66 AC - Buffed & Stanced, 68 Block

To Hit
--------------------------------------
14 - BAB
10 - STR
5 - Weapon
1 - Weapon Focus
2 - Elf Melee Attack II
4 - Greater Heroism
2 - Divine Favor
--------------------------------------
+38 - Self Buffed
--------------------------------------
2 - Recitation
1 - Haste
--------------------------------------
+ - with Buffs
--------------------------------------
-5 - Combat Expertise
-2 - Tower Shield
--------------------------------------
+34 - Fully Buffed w/ Combat Expertise and Tower
(+1 with Rage Potion)

Damage:
--------------------------------------
10 - STR
5 - Weapon
2 - Divine Favor
2 - Weapon Specialization
1 - Elf Melee Damage I
--------------------------------------
+20 Damage
(+1 with Rage Potion)

Feats (in no particular order, save where noted):
--------------------------------------
1) Weapon Focus: Pierce
2) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
3) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow*
4) Improved Critical: Pierce
5) Extend Spell*
6) Toughness
7) Weapon Specialization: Pierce
8) Dodge
9) Combat Expertise

The Lesser Dragonmark has to come at or after character level 6, and Extend Spell must be chosen at or after Paladin level 4. Weapon Specialization could easily be subbed for Power Attack.

Saves:
--------------------------------------
Fort / Ref / Will

+5 / +2 / +2 - Fighter 7 Base
+5 / +2 / +2 - Paladin 7 Base
+4 / +6 / +3 - Stat Modifiers
+5 / +5 / +5 - Divine Grace
+5 / +5 / +5 - Resistance 5 Item
+4 / +4 / +4 - Greater Heroism
+3 / +3 / +3 - Aura w/ Enhancements
--------------------------------------
+31 / +27 / +24 - Standing w/ Greater Heroism
(+26 WILL versus enchantments)

*One of only disadvantages to the 7/7 split is the loss to base saves. You gain no save bonuses over the 6/6 split, and for this reason I'm strongly tempted to go for two levels of Rogue, which of course would change a lot of other things, too. Then again, I'm not sitting on a set of +5 Mithral FP/TS, either, though I do have some +2 tomes saved up from endless Cult of the Six runs back in the day.

Hit Points:
--------------------------------------
20 - Heroic Durability
140 - Fighter/Paladin 14 Base
56 - Con Bonus
16 - Toughness
30 - Fighter's Toughness 3
10 - Draconic Vitality
30 - Greater False Life
--------------------------------------
302 Hit Points

SKills:
--------------------------------------
Intimidate: 17 ranks
Jump: 9 ranks*
Balance: 8 ranks*
UMD: 8 ranks

Basically, I just threw whatever was leftover into Jump and Balance; the exact breakdown changes depending on how and when you take your class levels, but I was mostly concerned with Intimidate and UMD.

Speaking of UMD, 8 ranks + 5 CHA puts you within striking distance of an 18 modified score, which should be enough to equip the shield on an Elf.

Enhancements:
--------------------------------------
Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark III
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
---------------------------------------

The idea is to combine high AC with extended Displacements via Dragonmarks, along with decent, albeit one-handed, offense. Your spellcasting ability will be kind of gimpy, but you should have enough with a little item wrangling to allow for good use of Divine Favor and/or the occasional 20-point resistance buff.

[sigtrent]

I'd go the deconstructionist route....

Lets say you don't want to go crazy with dex...

+ 6 Item
+ 1 tome
15 Base

thats 22 or +6 bonus.. MFP is +3 so thats Armor Mastery 3, Tower mastery 2 so you would be best as pure paladin as a dwarf, or Fighter 11 Paladin 3 as a human. (were ignoring dagger tooth belt here sicne its raid loot)

Let's say you are willing to go nuts with dex...
+6 Item
+2 Tome 1750
+3 level up
17 base

Thats 28 or +9 bonus so thats AM 6 and Tower 5 which means Fighter 11 Paladin 3 Dwarf. This is probably your absolute maximum AC configuration as you also have lots of fighter feats for dodge and CE. You also need 14 int so that with 17 dex is +19 of 32 build points. You need UMD 20 so that's 17 ranks + 3 for skill focus so you need a +4 cha item or GH buff or 4 build points to hit the target. Con and Str are looking a tad light at that point, but not abysmal.

So I'm thinking...
Str 16
Dex 15
Con 16
Int 13
Wis 8
Cha 9

You go Fighter 11 Paladin 3, dump level points and favor tome into dex and you get one point shy of max possible AC but can get charisma up somewhere. Strength isn't stellar but it works. You have lots of feats to play with. I'd go with a one handed + cleave great cleave for using paralyzers or the like to really dig on that defensive combat style.

So feats are... CE, Power Attack, Improved Trip, Dodge, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Crit (whatever), Improved Shield Bash, Least Mark of Making if you work in intimidate, Toughness, (And something else).

[maddmatt70]

whoops, forgot about tower shield max dex line..

[Jundak]

I have a build idea in my mind, but I want to see what the "community" would come up with, to see if I have another option for my Fighter build.

Items I have on-hand:
+5 Mithral Full Plate
+5 Mithral Tower Shield RR: Human
+5 Mithral Heavy Shield
32-point build unlocked

Yes, he does.

Edit: Oh, sure...delete your post when I'm trying to respond to it!

[maddmatt70]

Yes, he does.

Edit: Oh, sure...delete your post when I'm trying to respond to it!

hit the enter key without proofreading - guilty as charged..

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

I'd go the deconstructionist route....

Lets say you don't want to go crazy with dex...

+ 6 Item
+ 1 tome
15 Base

thats 22 or +6 bonus.. MFP is +3 so thats Armor Mastery 3, Tower mastery 2 so you would be best as pure paladin as a dwarf, or Fighter 11 Paladin 3 as a human. (were ignoring dagger tooth belt here sicne its raid loot)

Let's say you are willing to go nuts with dex...
+6 Item
+2 Tome 1750
+3 level up
17 base

Thats 28 or +9 bonus so thats AM 6 and Tower 5 which means Fighter 11 Paladin 3 Dwarf. This is probably your absolute maximum AC configuration as you also have lots of fighter feats for dodge and CE. You also need 14 int so that with 17 dex is +19 of 32 build points. You need UMD 20 so that's 17 ranks + 3 for skill focus so you need a +4 cha item or GH buff or 4 build points to hit the target. Con and Str are looking a tad light at that point, but not abysmal.

So I'm thinking...
Str 16
Dex 15
Con 16
Int 13
Wis 8
Cha 9

You go Fighter 11 Paladin 3, dump level points and favor tome into dex and you get one point shy of max possible AC but can get charisma up somewhere. Strength isn't stellar but it works. You have lots of feats to play with. I'd go with a one handed + cleave great cleave for using paralyzers or the like to really dig on that defensive combat style.

So feats are... CE, Power Attack, Improved Trip, Dodge, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Crit (whatever), Improved Shield Bash, Least Mark of Making if you work in intimidate, Toughness, (And something else).

Ergh... only one problem... FTSM goes to 3, and there is no Dwarf Equivalent, so +7 is the max using a Tower Shield.

Ok, let me play on that... with a minor tweak... throw in +1 Tomes, and we drop Con from 16 to 15, putting Cha up to 10...
And if we go 10 Fighter / 3 Paladin / 1 Rogue...

STR: 16 + 3 (Levels) + 2 (1750 Tome) + 3 (Fighter's STR 3) + 6 (Item) = 30 (+10)
DEX: 15 + 1 (Tome) + 6 (Item) = 22 (+6)
CON: 15 + 1 (Tome) + 2 (Dwarven Con 2) + 6 (Item) = 24 (+7)
INT: 13 + 1 (Tome) = 14 (+2)
WIS: 8
CHA: 10 + 1 (Tome) + 1 (Paladin Cha 1) + 6 (Item) = 18 (+4)

AC:
----------------------
10 - Base
13 - +5 Mithral Full Plate
9 - +5 Mithral Tower Shield
6 - Dex (FAM 1, DAM 2, TFSM 2)
4 - Protection +4 Item
2 - Ring of Balance
2 - Chaosguarde
1 - Paladin Aura
1 - Bulwark of Good 1
----------------------
48 AC
----------------------
5 - Combat Expertise
----------------------
53 AC "Standing"
----------------------
1 - Barkskin Pot
1 - Haste Pot
----------------------
55 AC "Self-Buffed"
----------------------
2 - Ranger's Barkskin
2 - Recitation
2 - Paladin Aura
----------------------
61 AC With Party Buffs
----------------------
3 - Chattering Ring
----------------------
64 AC with Raid Loot

Not too bad...
I guess Feats would be:
CE, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Imp Trip, IC: Slashing, ISB, Toughness, WF, GWF, SF: Intimidate/UMD

Going Rogue @ 14 allows maxing out UMD and Intimidate for -1 BAB/+1d6 Sneak Attack. This would give 17 Ranks + 3 (Cha) = 20 base score to each skill... SF: Intimidate + 13 Item + 4 (GH) = 40 Intimidate... or SF: UMD + GH + Cartouche = 30 UMD (Raise Dead on a 6)

I'm not sure if the 1 Rogue Splash is worth it (Fighter 10 grants Toughness 4, and the build only needs FAM 2, so Fighter 10 is sufficient)... but 40 Intimidate/27 UMD or a 37 Intimidate/30 UMD seems quite tempting to round-out this build... a littme more than what I originally envisioned

[Jundak]

Barkskin pot will grant +3 Nat. Bonus, not +1...you're final AC there would be 66.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Barkskin pot will grant +3 Nat. Bonus, not +1...you're final AC there would be 66.

I listed Ring of Balance under the Standing AC, which is +2 Natural Armor, so a Barskin Pot is only a net of +1

[Jundak]

Bah! Reading, FTW!

[Averroes]

Going Rogue @ 14 allows maxing out UMD and Intimidate for -1 BAB/+1d6 Sneak Attack. This would give 17 Ranks + 3 (Cha) = 20 base score to each skill... SF: Intimidate + 13 Item + 4 (GH) = 40 Intimidate... or SF: UMD + GH + Cartouche = 30 UMD (Raise Dead on a 6)

I'm not sure if the 1 Rogue Splash is worth it (Fighter 10 grants Toughness 4, and the build only needs FAM 2, so Fighter 10 is sufficient)... but 40 Intimidate/27 UMD or a 37 Intimidate/30 UMD seems quite tempting to round-out this build... a littme more than what I originally envisioned

Particularly since we're going to get Force of Personality in the next big patch (cha mod for will saves), I'd try to work out higher charisma in this build... Probably at the expense of con.

I don't think the rogue level is worth it -- with only 8 ranks and 20 charisma you can hit 25 umd without raid loot (8ranks+5 stat + 3 cartouche +2 luck + 4 spell + 3 skill focus), and even a dwarf can get up to 20 cha without too much trouble (12 base +1 tome +1 enhance +6 item).



For what it's worth, I play a mod-1 version of this sort of build -- a 12f/2p drow. The drow point buy has some advantages over 32-point builds when you care about both dex and charisma -- mine started at 16/16/6/14/8/17, and is now at 30/22/12/17/8/26, which hits the max dex bonus for a non-dwarf with only a +4 item (madstone boots) and winds me up with 47 intimidate and 30 umd buffed and with gear (titan gloves and sf:umd in that total). If I had it to do over again I'd probably have gone with 16 cha and 8 con, but I'm not losing sleep over it...


And as for the level split, I continue to be fond of 12f/2p for greater weapon spec. Ideally, equip a disease immunity item of heavy fort and a lion headed belt buckle and you're set for immunities, and hang out with a real pally and you don't miss the aura enhancement... Of course, it's hard to say what the ideal level split is until we know how enhancements will shake out at higher levels -- that seems to be the biggest determining factor.


And welcome back Obitus. I remember your name from way long ago on these boards.

[sigtrent]

Ergh... only one problem... FTSM goes to 3, and there is no Dwarf Equivalent, so +7 is the max using a Tower Shield.

Doh, thats what I get for positing without doing the research first. But I like your break down and going that way does make the rogue level work out better to swing the UMD and frees up a bit more stat action for str over dex.

I played with a cleave tank in deleras one time. I was really impressed with it at level 6. He just anhialated the quest in a way I'd never seen done at that level wtihout taking more than a few scratches along the way.