Good Hope

[freebird]

Hi, I had a Noob Bard question...Would Good hope "stack" on top of heroism?

Thanks

[KaKa]

no, nothing of the same type stacks except dodge.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Good Hope is essentially Heroism:mass with some extra damage, too.

[Aeneas]

guess i'm the noob. Good hope does extra damage over heroism? Alert the media, somebody should tell people these things!

[Mad_Bombardier]

Heroism = single target, +2 to-hit, +2 skills, +2 saves
Good Hope = whole party, +2 to-hit, +2 skills, +2 saves, +2 dmg, (& description says abilities, but it doesn't help Trip for example, so not sure if that applies)

But, Bards should not worry about +2 dmg. A level 8 Bard's (level after you get Good Hope) Inspire Courage gives +2 damage instead. Good Hope is an ok "catch-all" in case your song runs out mid-combat. Good Hope is also the only re-buff that removes Crushing Despair.

[Club'in]

The +2 to skills is great if you are pumping your UMD. Could make or break that res roll.

[Mad_Bombardier]

The +2 to skills is great if you are pumping your UMD. Could make or break that res roll.

But, is also available from Heroism, which comes in potion form.

[Club'in]

Ya, but I was thinking more along the lines of what it does/doesn't stack with in regards to your songs.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Ya, but I was thinking more along the lines of what it does/doesn't stack with in regards to your songs.

Gotcha! Ya, Good Hope is a nice catchall. For now, Greater Heroism does that, but Good Hope is certainly useful between party level 7 and 11 when the Arcanes get GrHero. And of course, an Arcane can scroll check a GrHero scroll as early as L1, but that's not reliable and gets expensive (L3 for Bards).

To clarify: Greater Heroism scrolls have a min level 9 for use. But, a Fighter 8/Wiz 1 can use a Greater Heroism scroll on a caster level check roll of a 20. Likewise, a Fighter 6/Bard 3 can use the scroll on a roll of 20.

[WeiQuinn]

So, once a Bard gets Good Hope, why should they keep Heroism memorized? Wouldn't it better to swap Heroism for another spell, once a Bard is able to cast Good Hope? It seems a little redundant to keep both spells memorized?

I'm asking this because I want to know... I plan on taking 7 Bard levels on my Drow and am Bard-illiterate, so to speak.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

So, once a Bard gets Good Hope, why should they keep Heroism memorized? Wouldn't it better to swap Heroism for another spell, once a Bard is able to cast Good Hope? It seems a little redundant to keep both spells memorized?

I'm asking this because I want to know... I plan on taking 7 Bard levels on my Drow and am Bard-illiterate, so to speak.

I see no reason to keep heroism once you pick up good hope. Now, if you were going all the way, and were going to end up with greater heroism, then there might be a discussion.

[sigtrent]

So, once a Bard gets Good Hope, why should they keep Heroism memorized? Wouldn't it better to swap Heroism for another spell, once a Bard is able to cast Good Hope? It seems a little redundant to keep both spells memorized?

Yes. Good hope is in all ways better than Heroism.

[Frodo_Lives]

Good Hope is one of the few spells that I would always recommend to any bard regardless of build, playstyle, or function. It's a great, long lasting, fairly cheap group buff. Songs don't last forever and there are a lot of times that groups simply don't wait for a resong unless it is right before a big battle.

[MrCow]

And of course, an Arcane can scroll check a GrHero scroll as early as L1, but that's not reliable and gets expensive (L3 for Bards).

Scrolls can be used two levels before the lowest level of any spell caster that can use that spell. In this case, Wizards can use Greater Heroism the earliest (level 11) and therefor Greater Heroism scrolls have a minimum level of 9 to use in scroll form.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Scrolls can be used two levels before the lowest level of any spell caster that can use that spell. In this case, Wizards can use Greater Heroism the earliest (level 11) and therefor Greater Heroism scrolls have a minimum level of 9 to use in scroll form.

Right on the minlevel thing. I meant for someone who splashed 1 level of an Arcane class and will clarify above.

[Emili]

This is what I see it as Heroism then when you get Good Hope drop Heroism then when you get greater heroism drop Good Hope... at that point your songs are infact stronger but GH last through a whole quest if not dispelled thus you're not too worried when people run off while you're singing. Good Hope is also the one spell to remove Crushing Dispair - people get that so little that carrying Good Hope around is not really worth the spell slot after you've Greater Heroism.