I am the n00b cleric your guild warned you about!

[transtemporal]

Last weekend I started my second DDO toon - a cleric. Hes great fun to play . After being a sorc for several months, being able to tank is cooool.

At lowish levels my strategy is to be a buff/heal/dv guy first and a second-line fighter second. I figure if the party has competent buffer/cc arcane/bard and high AC tanks to take the healing pressure off, he'll wade in for a bit of damage dealing fun too. I don't want to just stand around all the time (I'll do enough of that at high level). I can see those lowbie TWF DPS types being a pain in the proverbial, but in that case I'll go back to nannybot mode.

At high levels my strategy is to be buff/heal/dv guy first and a second-line fighter not at all. I don't know much about clerics, but I know that trying to be good in both areas will likely end up being average in both.

This cleric stuff is a little new to me, so any advice would be appreciated!

Alignment: I only know to stay away from LN, N and CN. LG was a bit of a punt. Hopefully its correct.

Abilities: Odd numbers so I could distribute points a little better to cha, con, int (increase con + int +1 with human adaptibility). Plus odd numbered items seem to be easier to pick up.

Skills: Not sure here, was a little bit random. Concentration seems to be the only must have for clerics.

Feats: Really do not have a clue. I figure: extend, metal toughness, improved mental toughness, quicken (at 9th). How do the maximise/empower/empower healing feats stack up? And why are there separate empower and empower healing feats? Do max/emp not work with healing spells?

Enhancements:
I'm thinkin:
Human Adapt: +1 Int
Human Adapt: +1 Wis
Gtr Human Adapt: +2 Wis
Clr Life Magic III
Clr Prayer of Life III
Clr Prayer of Incred Life III
Clr Energy of the Zealot III
Stat Wis III
Divine Vitality III
Any comments?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.75
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Cowpernicus Goodguy
Level 1 Lawful Good Human Male (28 pt build)
(1 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 28
Spell Points: 190 
BAB: 0
Fortitude: 2
Reflex: 0
Will: 5

                  Starting          
                 Base Stats         
Abilities        (Level 1)          
Strength             10             
Dexterity            10             
Constitution         11             
Intelligence         11             
Wisdom               17             
Charisma             13             

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 1)
Balance               1                     1
Concentration         4                     4
Jump                  1                     1
Tumble                1                     1


Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Human Bonus) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I

[STROBE]

Last weekend I started my second DDO toon - a cleric. Hes great fun to play . After being a sorc for several months, being able to tank is cooool.

At lowish levels my strategy is to be a buff/heal/dv guy first and a second-line fighter second. I figure if the party has competent buffer/cc arcane/bard and high AC tanks to take the healing pressure off, he'll wade in for a bit of damage dealing fun too. I don't want to just stand around all the time (I'll do enough of that at high level). I can see those lowbie TWF DPS types being a pain in the proverbial, but in that case I'll go back to nannybot mode.

At high levels my strategy is to be buff/heal/dv guy first and a second-line fighter not at all. I don't know much about clerics, but I know that trying to be good in both areas will likely end up being average in both.

This cleric stuff is a little new to me, so any advice would be appreciated!

Alignment: I only know to stay away from LN, N and CN. LG was a bit of a punt. Hopefully its correct.

Abilities: Odd numbers so I could distribute points a little better to cha, con, int (increase con + int +1 with human adaptibility). Plus odd numbered items seem to be easier to pick up.

Skills: Not sure here, was a little bit random. Concentration seems to be the only must have for clerics.

Feats: Really do not have a clue. I figure: extend, metal toughness, improved mental toughness, quicken (at 9th). How do the maximise/empower/empower healing feats stack up? And why are there separate empower and empower healing feats? Do max/emp not work with healing spells?

Enhancements:
I'm thinkin:
Human Adapt: +1 Int
Human Adapt: +1 Wis
Gtr Human Adapt: +2 Wis
Clr Life Magic III
Clr Prayer of Life III
Clr Prayer of Incred Life III
Clr Energy of the Zealot III
Stat Wis III
Divine Vitality III
Any comments?

Congrats on rolling a cleric! There are many things that they can do, many ways to make them and fortunately there are alot of good feats and enhancements to tailor them. The only down side on the forums is there are alot of strong opinions about how to do it, so most anything you read will be contradicted by someone else.

Just wanted to alert you to what I see above as a possible mistake. Under enhancements, I see two human adaptabilities to raise Int and Wis. I believe you only get to take that enhancement one time to raise one ability score by +1.

Then I see one Greater Human adaptabilities to raise wisdom by +2. I believe Greater only raises an ability by +1. Furthermore, you cannot raise the ability that you used Human Adaptability for; you must raise some other ability.

Note that every character can raise an ability score by +1 at levels 4, 8, and 12. And it can be the same ability.

On alignment, I have a true neutral cleric, and I'm not feeing a negative to it. I believe there are some alignment restricted spells, and only a neutral cleric can cast all of them. Its level 3 or 4 spells like Holy Smite and Chaos Hammer. But I never use those, so I recommend you seek a second opinion about those.

There's a big tide of opinion now against the empower heal feat, and for the empower feat. The difference is empower heal works only with the cure wounds spells AND the 6th level heal spell. The empower feat increases all spells that can be increased including the cure wounds spells, BUT NOT the 6th level heal spell. The additional cost is 10 spell points with Empower heal, and 15 points with Empower.

I believe there are hours of reading available on the subject of clerics in the Guides and Strategy forums. Also you can read alot of sharp debate in the clerics forum where ideas are vigorously compared.

[transtemporal]

Just wanted to alert you to what I see above as a possible mistake. Under enhancements, I see two human adaptabilities to raise Int and Wis. I believe you only get to take that enhancement one time to raise one ability score by +1.Then I see one Greater Human adaptabilities to raise wisdom by +2. I believe Greater only raises an ability by +1. Furthermore, you cannot raise the ability that you used Human Adaptability for; you must raise some other ability.

OK, looks like its +1 int, +1 wis then. Thanks for that. I haven't had a human toon above 3 lvl yet. I'm assuming a +1 int from adaptability qualifies for more skill points for each additional level? If not I'll go +1 cha, +1 wis.

There's a big tide of opinion now against the empower heal feat, and for the empower feat. The difference is empower heal works only with the cure wounds spells AND the 5th level heal spell. The empower feat increases all spells that can be increased including the cure wounds spells, BUT NOT the 5th level heal spell. The additional cost is 10 spell points with Empower heal, and 15 points with Empower.

Ahhh, thanks. Wouldn't an emped/maxed/LifeMagicIV/SupPotIV ccw almost heal as much as a empHealed Heal?

CLR 14, CCW
34-46 * 1.9 (supPot4/LifeMagIV) * 2.5 (max/emp) = 161-218 dmg
34-46 * 1.9 (supPot4/LifeMagIV) * 2.5 (max/emp) * 2.75 (supLore/PofIncredLifeIII) = 444-600 dmg

CLR 14, Heal (just empHeal)
140 * 1.9 (supPot6/LifeMagIV) * 1.5 (empHeal) = 399 dmg
140 * 1.9 (supPot6/LifeMagIV) * 1.5 (empHeal) * 2.75 (supLore/PofIncredLifeIII) = 1097 dmg

CLR 14, Heal (max/emp/empHeal)
140 * 1.9 (supPot6/LifeMagIV) * 3 (max/emp/empHeal) = 798 dmg
140 * 1.9 (supPot6/LifeMagIV) * 3 (max/emp/empHeal) * 2.75 (supLore/PofIncredLifeIII) = 2194 dmg

OK maybe not... are those figures correct? Didn't know whether there was such a thing as a supLore item for healing spells.

[Kavel_Havae]

if your not going to be a DC checked cleric. you might want to get those 3 points back from 17 wisdom and kick it down to a 16 and drop your int by 1-3 there are not a whole lot of class skills you can use as a cleric, and being human you get an extra skill point at level.

boost your con for hp's and drop another into Cha for dv's if ya want to go that route. and Str if you don't want to burdened all the time with the heavy gear your carrying, and to add to your + to hit.

just my 2 cp's

[MrCow]

The difference is empower heal works only with the cure wounds spells AND the 5th level heal spell. The empower feat increases all spells that can be increased including the cure wounds spells, BUT NOT the 5th level heal spell.

Heal is a 6th level clerical spell, not 5th.

CLR 14, Heal (max/emp/empHeal)
140 * 1.9 (supPot6/LifeMagIV) * 3 (max/emp/empHeal) = 798 dmg

You can not apply Empower or Maximize to Heal. Heal is able to be boosted by Empowered Healing though.

I'm assuming a +1 int from adaptability qualifies for more skill points for each additional level? If not I'll go +1 cha, +1 wis.

Only base stat points, stat points from level gains, and stat points from tomes for INT apply towards skill points.

[STROBE]

Heal is a 6th level clerical spell, not 5th.

Yep. I'll edit.

[Impaqt]

Adaptability wont get you more SKillPoints. Only Level up Points and Tomes count as Base Score.

Since this is a 28 pt build I also would of started at a 16 WIS and 12 CHR. Take those four Points and put them into STR in you want to melee.

into to 10 and CON to 12 as well... Humans already get an extra Skill point and there sint a whole lot Clerics need..

Concentration.. Definatly after that, Balance... If ya got more, I'd recomend Jump or Diplomacy.

[STROBE]

Ahhh, thanks. Wouldn't an emped/maxed/LifeMagicIV/SupPotIV ccw almost heal as much as a empHealed Heal?

OK maybe not... are those figures correct? Didn't know whether there was such a thing as a supLore item for healing spells.

I'm sorry I can't answer you questions but Im not that mathmatically inclined. I did want to mention a couple important things that you might not be aware of.

Superior Potency VI may exist in the game, but I don't have one, and I dont recall ever seeing one for sale at the Auction House. But then I'm not a loot grinder. I have seen a few Greater Potency VI items but they bring top dollar and more than a few bidders, and are usually lvl 13 minimum requirement.

More importantly on your spell calculations. Its my experience that spells do not work exactly like their descriptions, and frequently hit for numbers that are not numerically possible given their descriptions, or the frequency of all possible numbers is not in keeping with the spells' descriptions. I find that I just have to test cast the spells repeatedly in order to determine what I can expect from them, in the way of numbers. You might be pleasantly surprised as I have been.

[tihocan]

I'd suggest trying to bump your str up to something like 14 if you want to have some fun swinging a sword.

[transtemporal]

You can not apply Empower or Maximize to Heal. Heal is able to be boosted by Empowered Healing though.

Ah yes, good point. Thanks MrCow. (I've adjusted the figures below based on Borror0's wiki numbers, full multiplier explanation at bottom).

CLR 14, CCW (w empHeal)
Normal: 26-46 * 1.9 * 1.5 = 74-131 dmg
Crit: 26-46 * 1.9 * 1.5 * 2.75 = 203-360 dmg

CLR 14, CCW (w max/emp)
Normal: 26-46 * 1.9 * 2.5 = 123-218 dmg
Crit: 26-46 * 1.9 * 2.5 * 2.75 = 339-600 dmg

CLR 14, CCW (w max/emp/empHeal)
Normal: 26-46 * 1.9 * 3 = 148-262 dmg
Crit: 26-46 * 1.9 * 3 * 2.75 = 407-721 dmg

CLR 14, Heal (w empHeal)
Normal: 140 * 1.9 * 1.5 = 399 dmg
Crit: 140 * 1.9 * 1.5 * 2.75 = 1097 dmg

Pretty good numbers. Might almost be worthwhile getting all 3 feats, except that max and emp will send the cost skyrocketing. I think I'll just pick up empHeal.

Question 1) Is there no Superior Potency VI in the game as strobe says? I thought there was but maybe not.
Question 2) Is there such a thing as a Superior Healing Lore item? If not, my crit calc should be 2.25, not 2.75.

Working out
===============
CLR 14, CCW (w empHeal)
Normal:
26-46 (4d6+8+14)
* 1.9 (Superior Potency IV, 50% / Life Magic IV, 40%)
* 1.5 (Empower Heal, 50%)
= 74-131 dmg
Crit:
26-46 (4d6+8+14)
* 1.9 (Superior Potency IV, 50% / Life Magic IV, 40%)
* 1.5 (Empower Heal, 50%)
* 2.75 (Superior Healing (?) Lore, 50% / Prayer of Incredible Life III, 75%)
= 203-360 dmg

CLR 14, CCW (w max/emp)
Normal:
26-46 (4d6+8+14)
* 1.9 (Superior Potency IV, 50% / Life Magic IV, 40%)
* 2.5 (Maximise, 100% / Empower, 50%)
= 123-218 dmg
Crit:
26-46 (4d6+8+14)
* 1.9 (Superior Potency IV, 50% / Life Magic IV, 40%)
* 2.5 (Maximise, 100% / Empower, 50%)
* 2.75 (Superior Healing (?) Lore, 50% / Prayer of Incredible Life III, 75%)
= 339-600 dmg

CLR 14, CCW (w max/emp/empHeal)
Normal:
26-46 (4d6+8+14)
* 1.9 (Superior Potency IV, 50% / Life Magic IV, 40%)
* 3 (Maximise, 100% / Empower, 50% / Empower Heal, 50%)
= 148-262 dmg
Crit:
26-46 (4d6+8+14)
* 1.9 (Superior Potency IV, 50% / Life Magic IV, 40%)
* 3 (Maximise, 100% / Empower, 50% / Empower Heal, 50%)
* 2.75 (Superior Healing (?) Lore, 50% / Prayer of Incredible Life III, 75%)
= 407-721 dmg

CLR 14, Heal (w empHeal)
Normal:
140 (10 x caster level)
* 1.9 (Superior Potency VI, 50% / Life Magic IV, 40%)
* 1.5 (Empower Heal, 50%)
= 399 dmg
Crit:
140 (10 x caster level)
* 1.9 (Superior Potency VI, 50% / Life Magic IV, 40%)
* 1.5 (Empower Heal, 50%)
* 2.75 (Superior Healing (?) Lore, 50% / Prayer of Incredible Life III, 75%)
= 1097 dmg

[transtemporal]

Thanks for your comments guys. You're definitely right on the int and con. I made the mistake of not having enough skill points with my sorc and now I've got too many. D'oh. At least my Mario skillz will be l337.

I'll make up the strength deficit with an item, bulls strength & rage for the moment. I don't intend on tanking forever, just at the low levels while my AC in heavy armor is still worth a **** and I can still conceiveably hit things.

[Maatogaeoth]

I'll make up the strength deficit with an item, bulls strength & rage for the moment.

Bull's strength and a +STR item don't stack unfortunately. Until you can use a +4 STR item, I wouldn't bother using the item slot and just cast Bull's when you need it.

[ShadowFox1978]

Bull's strength and a +STR item don't stack unfortunately. Until you can use a +4 STR item, I wouldn't bother using the item slot and just cast Bull's when you need it.

By the time he can equip a +4 item, he will be gaining Divine Power so he still shouldn't waste the item slot.

[transtemporal]

Bull's strength and a +STR item don't stack unfortunately. Until you can use a +4 STR item, I wouldn't bother using the item slot and just cast Bull's when you need it.

Oh OK, I didn't mean I was going to try and stack a str item and bulls. I meant bulls and rage ring.

[Nauthiz]

My 3cp:

Kudos on human cleric. It's a build you can't screw up. Plenty of feats to change around, and as you pointed out, the Adaptability enhancements will let you balance out stats depending whether you find +5 or +6 items, tomes, etc. I still play my 28 point human cleric effectively. If you're focused enough to keep people from dying, they'll think you're a god regardless.

With only the 10 STR, you're also right about your melee abilities at high levels. Grab a cursespewer, paralayzer, destruction, or something similar. I also started with 10 STR, managed to get to an 18, and hit often enough for cursespewing to be helpful, but my damage is supplemental at best. Don't worry about the AC too much. Mine's between 33 and 36 depending on which armor I choose, but I don't draw enough aggro for it to matter much.

I had thought that with the Mod 5 Metamagic Updates, Empower no longer worked on any Cure spells, only Empower Healing. I cannot find this listed anywhere, and 4 out of the other 5 dentists seem to think it only matters for Heal, not Cure, so I'm probably wrong.

All in all, a good build. I think you not only planned it pretty well, but you have a great understanding of what your capabilities and limitations will be. And knowing is half the battle, Joe.

[transtemporal]

With only the 10 STR, you're also right about your melee abilities at high levels. Grab a cursespewer, paralayzer, destruction, or something similar. I also started with 10 STR, managed to get to an 18, and hit often enough for cursespewing to be helpful, but my damage is supplemental at best. Don't worry about the AC too much. Mine's between 33 and 36 depending on which armor I choose, but I don't draw enough aggro for it to matter much.

Its interesting, even at low levels I can see the combat difference between me and my warforged barb buddy. I need to use all my buffs to get to the same hit bonus that he has normally. And when he hits normally they die, when he hits buffed... yikes. I'll be happy with an AC/DR that defends against level-appropriate mobs on normal difficulty until about lvl 9 and then I'll probably leave my AC as is and rely on heavy fort (and blur/displacement and stoneskin from kind sorcs). I'm working on acquiring a few of those "special effect" weapons. Until now, I'd never even bothered reading the weapon descriptions in the AH, ha ha.

I had thought that with the Mod 5 Metamagic Updates, Empower no longer worked on any Cure spells, only Empower Healing. I cannot find this listed anywhere, and 4 out of the other 5 dentists seem to think it only matters for Heal, not Cure, so I'm probably wrong.

As it happens, I'm going to get both empower healing and maximise (in a few lvls). EmpHeal is there specifically for Heal but its useful at lower levels because it costs less than maximise, and spell points at low levels seem a bit thin on the ground when compared to my sorc. Maximise by all accounts works with the cure spells (except Heal) so it'll be handy in the instances I need a tough blade barrier as well as those times when I need empHealed and Maxed cure spells. This sounds like a good rationale in my head, but I'm not sure whether it actually is. I'll give it the swish test and see.

All in all, a good build. I think you not only planned it pretty well, but you have a great understanding of what your capabilities and limitations will be. And knowing is half the battle, Joe.

Thanks for the feedback dude, appreciate it. Last night I had my first real test in WW on elite. Until the last chapter it was a push over but we got a little over-confident and took on the the named ogres and the troll. Got a bit hectic and almost wiped a couple of times but we got away with only one shrine rez. Being a cleric is great fun!