Tempest Spine is not a raid

[jjflanigan]

I love tempest spine, I do. But it's not a "Raid" in the same way as the other raids. There are 0 pre-reqs, there is no timer and (because of this) there is no insane-o raid-loot. It's a raid-style quest but it's still more of a quest than a raid.

[Mckim_Brian]

We need more TS style quests. We've needed/wanted them since the beginning.

I wonder if Mod 6 will include 1 or more?

[Jefro]

Tempest was great in its day, when +5 fullplate and +4 stat items was rare and vorpals you had to make a new character to use it, also Blackguards can only be hit on a 20 most of the time. Now the blackguards are weakened and the giants are stronger. Last time I was in it, there was alot of visual glitches
Tempest spine still a great raid, I usually look for one when I am playing new character and still run it now and again for fun with high level toons finding different ways to make it more challenging.
We need new higher and even lower level raids like it, minus the current glitches.

[CSFurious]

sorry, but i think most of the player base would disagree with your opinions

running ts is a blast

I am sorry but I dislike tempest spine. I like the no flagging aspect to it like everyone else, but I hate the get in a group and zerge to the end mentality for a raid. A raid should actually have some sort of strategy, thinking aspect, challengish part to it. A quest that really is an expanded pop run has no business being a raid..

[MrWizard]

I am sorry but I dislike tempest spine. I like the no flagging aspect to it like everyone else, but I hate the get in a group and zerge to the end mentality for a raid. A raid should actually have some sort of strategy, thinking aspect, challengish part to it. A quest that really is an expanded pop run has no business being a raid..

When it was new..it was a thinker...having to get fire and ice just one of the tough parts..real hard battles for the 10 cap and no uber loot.

And...if you have run them lately....and I have....with a group of 13s and 14s....they all sit at the entrance and buff...try to make it in the cave...and SLOWLY progress step by step through it....and you should see how they are doing fire and ice....oh man...and these are 14s!!!!! My 4-7 level runs were faster...lol


As for not a raid...

Demon queen- want me to point out all the people that easily solo this one...in no time....
Reavers- want to see all the millions of sorcs that have soloed this EASILY.....
Dragon- wanna see the pics of two halflings who duoed her over and over...or 3 manned her? There are many on the forums.
TItan- a zerg fest if with a good guild run...a 15 minute zergfest.

What made tempest cool was you could get 12 fun people together and have a good time....yea, it got easy, my mage and a fighter could destory it in 20 minutes...but it was fun with 12.....just 12 people zerging, running, having fun....rolling to see who would try to solo (and die) in the beholder room...racing to see who could vorpal fire or ice first.....

the run was just fun..

In the early days hard....

For newer players you will see people getting completely lost.
You will see newer, even uber newer, players sitting at doors firewalling, piling up for fire and ice AWAY form the shrine (never could understand that), sitting outside sorjeck for an ungodly time of buffing....

In fact....if you really want to enjoy it the way it used to be...turn off you microphone, go to typing, and join just about any pug group doing it elite.....or even normal.... if you have done that raid a gajillion times, it is comical, a trip down memory lane, and just jaw dropping on how they do it now.... and it makes it fun...

oh yea, and if you zerg ahead, be prepared for them to freak out big time.....

[MrWizard]

When the Level cap was 10 that quest was a serge. I am guessing that there was some significant twinkish at the 8-10 level, but regardless it was a serge then.. One of the other posters mentioned the fire and ice example as an illustration of strategy/puzzles - yes I agree that was strategy/puzzles, but there needs to be more of that for it to be a raid.

heck..all you need was a 7 wiz with solid fog and could kill scrolls and the whole dungeon could be done elite...with any number (providing you have adamantine for the golems).

For a previous poster...yes repeating it a 100 times is different then the first time. Imagine how easy the dungeons in PnP wold be if you just repeated themfor xp....very hard and exciting the first time....not a problem everytime after that....repetition just makes it easier and easier...

Spine was fun cause yoiu could get 12 people and have fun...it was a quest more than a raid...but allowed 12....

WE WANT MORE OF THEM DEVS!!!

[sirgog]

Best fun quest in the game.

IMO, cutting the boring 12-person twice a week loot runs would be no loss to the game. Most (save the DQ) are boring anyway, and the DQ is over too quickly to be fun.

Tempest Spine is a fun quest to do with 9-12 level-appropriate characters, and is a blast even the 30th time. Don't think any of the other raids are enough fun to hit 30 on any of them.

[Mercules]

Best fun quest in the game.

IMO, cutting the boring 12-person twice a week loot runs would be no loss to the game. Most (save the DQ) are boring anyway, and the DQ is over too quickly to be fun.

Tempest Spine is a fun quest to do with 9-12 level-appropriate characters, and is a blast even the 30th time. Don't think any of the other raids are enough fun to hit 30 on any of them.

Really? I found this quest increadibly boring with 9-12 level appropriate characters. Chaos is fun for some while tactics is fun for others. Now, going through in a small group with my friends this quest was incredible. With my Cleric however, I did one run on Elite and never set foot in there again. I -might- drag my new Cleric/Rogue through there but I am not sure if I'll do it more than once. Unless someone wants to do it with 5-8 people.

[Pellegro]

I love tempest spine, I do. But it's not a "Raid" in the same way as the other raids. There are 0 pre-reqs, there is no timer and (because of this) there is no insane-o raid-loot. It's a raid-style quest but it's still more of a quest than a raid.

qft

I also agree that its fun, and would love to see more quests like it. TS was a bear when it first came out, and still can be challenging on normal for lvl 6-7, and on elite up to lvl 9-10.

Lack of raid loot doesn't bother me a bit .... I'm like 0 fer 15 to date regardless.

[DoctorWhofan]

-cracks knuckles-

TS NOT A RAID?????? Yes it is! LIke a old Chevy truck from the '50's: no, it doesn't have the power or the hauling capasity as a 2007, but it is STILLa truck and still people use it and drive it? Why? for several reasons; esethics, tradition, the reto coolness, but they are still being driven. This is the same for TS. Comparing it to today's raid is wrong. It was the first raid when the level cap was 10. So yeah today it's pretty easy. So why, at any giving time there is at least one LFM for TS going up? Because it is FUN! None of the, "oh my god gotta reflag" or "We are going to divide the raid loot..." or "for expirance people only"

You see, the fun factor isn't about levels or quests or monsters; it about a bunch of people enjoying themselves playing a game that has quests, levels , monsters. TS sums it up and adds the fact you can now play with 11 other people. It is still difficult, just not in the way people think. Zerging is funny, cuz if they don't wathc hwhat they are doing, lvl 14's can die just as easily. Great practice in teamwork, especially at Fire and Ice. Gives new people an idea of Raids. Heck,one of the raids I lead, all we talked about is Doctor Who!

To convience me that TS is not fun is like telling fish that water is bad for you. It's a classic, just like the truck: you don't have to drive it to appreciate it's value to the whole community and the future of truck design. TS was the first in a series of raids. Too bad they did not stick with the formula. THen we wouldn't be having raid loot discussions in forums.

[DoctorWhofan]

heck..all you need was a 7 wiz with solid fog and could kill scrolls and the whole dungeon could be done elite...with any number (providing you have adamantine for the golems).

For a previous poster...yes repeating it a 100 times is different then the first time. Imagine how easy the dungeons in PnP wold be if you just repeated themfor xp....very hard and exciting the first time....not a problem everytime after that....repetition just makes it easier and easier...

Spine was fun cause yoiu could get 12 people and have fun...it was a quest more than a raid...but allowed 12....

WE WANT MORE OF THEM DEVS!!!

Bah! Try 500+ times. Babies. you all are!

[Makdar]

I am sorry but I dislike tempest spine. I like the no flagging aspect to it like everyone else, but I hate the get in a group and zerge to the end mentality for a raid. A raid should actually have some sort of strategy, thinking aspect, challengish part to it. A quest that really is an expanded pop run has no business being a raid..

Very subjective thinking. And most other people's subjective thinking disagree with it.

[DoctorWhofan]

Very subjective thinking. And most other people's subjective thinking disagree with it.

ALl thinking subjective. Making your comment very subjective. And a circular argument.


To the OP: Since TS was way before PoP, that would make PoP a TS run, shortened. Remember, it is a level 10 raid ANDthe first one. You don't have to like it, to appreciate it for what it is worth. But that's subjective thinking too.

[Litz]

One thing that stands out to me is, if Tempest Spine is not a raid, and everyone agreed on that then the current poll shows that missions are better than raids. Raids sux for the lack of a better adjictive. Missions is what DDO should focus on since it is what they do well. Raids, blah let WoW or some other candy coated MMO focus on that.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I'd like to see them add some real nice chests outside in TS......give people a reason to go there.

I only got a chance to look around outside once...and that was because the guy with the stones got blown off and recalled, so we had to try to find them. it was quite a struggle, but at least I finally got to see a lot of the areas that no one ever goes to.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Really? I found this quest increadibly boring with 9-12 level appropriate characters. Chaos is fun for some while tactics is fun for others. Now, going through in a small group with my friends this quest was incredible. With my Cleric however, I did one run on Elite and never set foot in there again. I -might- drag my new Cleric/Rogue through there but I am not sure if I'll do it more than once. Unless someone wants to do it with 5-8 people.

The only thing that has ever bored me about it, is the way people zerg through it. It really doesn't take 12 people to do, and usually half of the group sees almost no action.....mostly because everyone zergs so fast.

it can be a difficult quest, especially for lower lvl groups (or groups the same lvl as the quest even). But just like anyother quest, most people know it very well, or at least have done it many times.....so even the hardest quests become easy eventually.

I used to think VON3 was the hardest quest in the game. Now even my mid lvl toons find it almost easy, just because I know it so well. My lvl14s two man's it, and my friends Rgr can solo it if he's careful.

All quests are like that.

[MrWizard]

Bah! Try 500+ times. Babies. you all are!

Well Doc....I used to run daily TS runs for months on end on Xoriat....probably 5 times a day (we could really run fast)...sometimes more (it was really boring at cap).

IT was always a good run down after a hard days adventuring..

When I run the xoriat style raid, I am gonna bring you along so you can see the mayhem...xoriat style.....

great place to bring 10 friends and one newb paladin for the 'charisma' lever.

[DoctorWhofan]

I'd like to see them add some real nice chests outside in TS......give people a reason to go there.

I only got a chance to look around outside once...and that was because the guy with the stones got blown off and recalled, so we had to try to find them. it was quite a struggle, but at least I finally got to see a lot of the areas that no one ever goes to.

Ohhh! I like!!! IT's a pretty big area out there. Went looking once just to see what you needed for conquest. But a random named with a chest would be cool! It should be done! The Goddess commands it!

[Hendrik]

Call it what you will dude it's a 12 man fun-fest beatdown. Whether you grind it out at low levels orHULKSMASH! it at level 14 this is one of the funnest quests in the game.

TS nekkid is a favorite pastime....

[DoctorWhofan]

Well Doc....I used to run daily TS runs for months on end on Xoriat....probably 5 times a day (we could really run fast)...sometimes more (it was really boring at cap).

IT was always a good run down after a hard days adventuring..

When I run the xoriat style raid, I am gonna bring you along so you can see the mayhem...xoriat style.....

great place to bring 10 friends and one newb paladin for the 'charisma' lever.

I don't believe in the CHA lever. THe joke falls flat after 60 times. THen again, I'm used to herding...