Drow - Acid/Electric Nuker Build

[2p1k3]

Please advice as I know there are many who have more experience than I. And before someone asks, yes the 20 Int is important as it adds more SP.

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Ianelle Sui'Kuhn
Level 14 True Neutral Drow Female
(14 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 62
Spell Points: 1124 
BAB: 7\7\12
Fortitude: 3
Reflex: 4
Will: 8

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)          (Level 14)           (Level 14)
Strength              8                  8                    8
Dexterity            10                 10                   11
Constitution          8                  8                    8
Intelligence         20                 23                   26
Wisdom                8                  8                    8
Charisma             18                 18                   18

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 14)          (Level 14)
Balance               2                  8.5                  8.5
Bluff                 4                  4                    4
Concentration         3                 11                   11
Diplomacy             6                 12.5                 12.5
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle                6                 12.5                 12.5
Heal                 -1                 -1                   -1
Hide                  0                  0                    0
Intimidate            4                  4                    4
Jump                  1                  7.5                  7.5
Listen               -1                 -1                    1
Move Silently         0                  0                    0
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                9                 25                   25
Search                5                  8                   10
Spot                 -1                 -1                    1
Swim                 -1                  5                    5
Tumble                n/a               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      6                 12.5                 15.5

Level 1 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Haggle (+2)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Repair (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Spell (1): Charm Person
Spell (1): Detect Secret Doors
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Spell (1): Mage Armor
Spell (1): Magic Missle
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Spell (1): Shocking Grasp
Spell (1): Shield
Spell (1): Cause Fear
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I

Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (1): Obscuring Mist
Spell (1): Ray of Enfeeblement
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Quickening I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I

Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Melf's Acid Arrow

Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (2): Knock
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Energy I

Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Spell (3): Lightning Bolt
Spell (3): Protection From Energy
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Energy I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting I

Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (3): Heroism
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II

Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (4): Burning Blood
Spell (4): Wall of Fire
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation III

Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Swim (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (4): Bestow Curse
Spell (4): Stoneskin
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Energy II

Level 9 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Swim (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
Spell (5): Ball Lightning
Spell (5): Cloudkill
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Energy II

Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Spell (5): Symbol of Pain
Spell (5): Teleport

Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (6): Chain Lightning
Spell (6): Acid Fog
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Energy III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III

Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Spell (6): Circle of Death
Spell (6): Globe of Invulnerability

Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (7): Delayed Blast Fireball
Spell (7): Greater Teleport
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar IV
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III

Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (7): Waves of Exhaustion
Spell (7): Control Undead
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Energy III

[Oran_Lathor]

Take some points out of Charisma and boost constitution to at least 12.

[Aesop]

Take some points out of Charisma and boost constitution to at least 12.

I'll second that.

Ya wanna be able to survive one shot from a badun... just in case

Aesop

[Laprion]

i have to agree with the other 2 too

is there a reason u have a high cha with a wiz tho? or was u getting stats confused

[Aesop]

i have to agree with the other 2 too

is there a reason u have a high cha with a wiz tho? or was u getting stats confused

UMD. I myself made my WIzzy with 1 level of Bard to max UMD and gain easy Healing Wands, but an 18 Cha with a COn of 8 is just pushing it too much.

Aesop

[Aeneas]

if you're taking a level of bard you don't need to umd wands for healing. They can use any heal wand without failure as long as they have the appropriate level requirement met. A level of ranger of pally would do the same for you.

[ErgonomicCat]

UMD. I myself made my WIzzy with 1 level of Bard to max UMD and gain easy Healing Wands, but an 18 Cha with a COn of 8 is just pushing it too much.

Aesop

Agreed. I'm really not sure you need to max Int, max Cha, take GSF: Evo and SF: UMD.

I think you're sacrificing too much for those. Drop Cha by 2, raise Con by 4 (-1 UMD, +28 hp). Or drop SF: UMD and take Toughness (-3 UMD, +19 hp). Or drop GSF: Evo and take Toughness. Or some combination.

Also, I'm pretty sure you won't be using Quicken as a level one Wiz - I'd shuffle the order around. Extend, then Maximize, then Quicken.

[2p1k3]

Thank you for the advice! I killed UMD, I can just use potions if it comes to that. But I was able to raise con to 14 and dex to 12. As far as the feat selection. In practice I will do what ErgonomicCat suggested but the build planner I am using doesn't let me select "respec Enhancements" at level ten. hehe Just need those feats to enter the picture at those times to get the end picture I want with enhancements. Though as I said, I will end up getting to the level 10 picture differently and then respec enhancements.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.75
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Ianelle Sui'KuhnĹ_
Level 14 True Neutral Drow Female
(14 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 120
Spell Points: 1124 
BAB: 7\7\12
Fortitude: 6
Reflex: 5
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 14)
Strength              8                     8
Dexterity            12                    13
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         20                    26
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             10                    10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 14)
Balance               3                     9.5
Bluff                 0                     0
Concentration         6                    14
Diplomacy             2                     8
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     8
Heal                 -1                     5
Hide                  1                     1
Intimidate            0                     0
Jump                  1                     7
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         1                     1
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                9                    25
Search                7                    12
Spot                 -1                     1
Swim                 -1                     7
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I

Level 2 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Quickening I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I

Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation

Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Energy I

Level 5 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Energy I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting I

Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II

Level 7 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation III

Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Energy II

Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Energy II

Level 10 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell

Level 11 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Energy III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III

Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 13 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar IV
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III

Level 14 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Energy III

[Aesop]

if you're taking a level of bard you don't need to umd wands for healing. They can use any heal wand without failure as long as they have the appropriate level requirement met. A level of ranger of pally would do the same for you.

Yep you don't need UMD for Healing Wands but you would for Racial Required Items and Raise Dead Scrolls. I just like having it Never KNow the Cleric could get Feebleminded and I may have to hit him with a Heal Scroll

Aesop

[Oran_Lathor]

Build looks good to me now 2p1, if I were to make a further suggestion, I may take Empower spell instead of either Toughness or Extend. With the new metaspell costs, max/emp is really quite useful, and mana efficient. Consider Ball Lightning, since you lightning specced:

Normal cost: 30 sp
Normal dmg (avg, best items/enh): 133

Max/emp cost: 60 (with 1 rank in each of improved max and emp)
Max/emp dmg (avg, same items/enh): 333

so normally you get 4.4 dmg per SP spent, and Max/emp you get 5.5 dmg per SP spent, actually making your nuking faster AND more efficient.

Considering you're build involves Acid dots, I would recommend maybe holding onto extend, and taking Empower spell instead of toughness. Killing things faster is probably worth more than the 16 hp (and you can get the Minos Legen from tapestries to give you toughness too!)

Hope I'm being helpful,
Peace

[2p1k3]

Oran, you are being very helpful! Now I just am wondering if I want to forgo Mental Toughness feats in exchange for a couple more metamagic feats.

[Aeneas]

never played a cleric, and know this isn't the forum for it, but if he took a level of cleric instead of bard, could he use res scrolls without failure at level 9, or would he need 9 cleric levels?

[nbhs275]

only thing is that the lightning AOE spells dont persist, and seem kinda iffy on range. And there isnt any such thing for acid. Infact only 3 acid spells, of which 1 is half fire based. Not sure if a switch in element focus warrants a new thread, build and layout though.

[MrWizard]

I did not look at all of it, but your comment about 20 INT is not a good arguement.

The 20 INT is not for spell points, but for DC checks (especially on elec spells which have a save).

OTher than DC saves, a high modifier is not really needed for a caster as the spell point increase is minimal.

The equation to determine spell points is as thus...

(caster level + 9) * (casting ability modifier)


The amount of mana you would get because of your INT if you had a INT of 12 would be 23..at level 14
The amount if you had a 20 INT would be 115...at level 14

92 spell point difference...and assuming you put a lot into INT and got to 34 by 14th...the total is 276.
253 point difference if you left your INT at 12.....
but if you add a +6 item and a tome...and some enhancements, you would have 12+6+1+3 = 23 INT.....for 138 spell points at 14th level..

Difference between 34 INT and 23 INT in spell points is ........138 spell points..
Niot really a lot to write home about.

However....that 34 INT will modify your DC considerably...

23 INT modifier is +6, 34 INT modifier is +12

That plus 12 will help the spell get through a save....and that is why you have a 20 INT

Strength is important....the amount of HP you get from a couple points of con is negligible....with a higher str you will run faster...and this is important.
It will save you getting whacked a lot and losing hit points.

A few points in strength will help you carry more loot...medium burden or heavy burden and your 8 str is a turtle...and the extra hp will not help much...and you will blow mana on hasting more as you are slow..

Although......using and getting bulls strength can make it better...and eventually a +6 str item....but the same can be said for CON....so getting a +6 modifier on dex would be best bet for ac...(getting to 22)....I would say if you can get that higher where a +4 cats grace could get you to 20...then you would be +5 ac....and that is real good for you...
Also..the extra dex will help with your reflex saves...traps...aoe spells...whereas the con will be fort saves..i have more issues with the reflex saves than the fort...only cuz I am clumsy...

[Oran_Lathor]

Sorry Mr. Wiz, I have to respectfully disagree, no way is a couple of points of strength more useful than constitution. I don't even understand your argument really; strength does not make you run/move/anything faster. All it does is increase your weight allowance, which has only ever been a problem for me when i'm hit with ray of enfeeblement. So, I'll modify my advice a little, go 8 strength, 12 con, and carry a few lesser restore potions. As long as you don't run several long quests without selling in between you won't have an encumberance problem often. Wear a strength item and you can effectively make that never. That said, where a con item too - the highest you can.

Dont' really agree about boosting dex either, I'm afraid. Without some rather serious investment in slots/enhancements/feats it will never even be passable (22 dex or not). IMO, and the opinion of most: 8 AC is about as good as 30-35 AC, and you will give up A LOT to get to 30-35 AC. Just play smart, use a shield and the best fortification item you can when you're getting agro, and you (and your groups) will be much better off.

[MrWizard]

Sorry Mr. Wiz, I have to respectfully disagree, no way is a couple of points of strength more useful than constitution. I don't even understand your argument really; strength does not make you run/move/anything faster. All it does is increase your weight allowance, which has only ever been a problem for me when i'm hit with ray of enfeeblement. So, I'll modify my advice a little, go 8 strength, 12 con, and carry a few lesser restore potions. As long as you don't run several long quests without selling in between you won't have an encumberance problem often. Wear a strength item and you can effectively make that never. That said, where a con item too - the highest you can.

Dont' really agree about boosting dex either, I'm afraid. Without some rather serious investment in slots/enhancements/feats it will never even be passable (22 dex or not). IMO, and the opinion of most: 8 AC is about as good as 30-35 AC, and you will give up A LOT to get to 30-35 AC. Just play smart, use a shield and the best fortification item you can when you're getting agro, and you (and your groups) will be much better off.

I agree and disagree....

I like high reflex saves...I like a good ac, the diff betweren 8 and 35 is like a super blur....and my 8 str guys are uber slow versus the ones that are not..yes, at running....weight matters...
I had an 8 str...as soon as I looted chests I became med. load imediately..
And as I said, bulls str and items cover it...so not super important....but it also helps with swim and balance....and jump

but the amount of HP from a one or two modifiers is not much at all...never really added it up....but two more points in con...get you the +1 mod...how much is that add up to at 14th level?
I gladly give up a few hit points for a better run, jump, swim, eflex save and ac...

but..all things considered....it depends what you are going to do as a caster. I do not think there is a right and wring..just what works for ya... always reroll if you do not like it.

But it never hurts with the ac...and I have sen casters in the high 40s and low 50s with their acs..just wish you could get more than 6 for a bonus...

[Oran_Lathor]

Nice response Mr. Wiz. You make a good point about skills. Personally I still think con trumps str or dex (though my drow always have 12-14 dex for reflex etc). Still you're right, it's all about how you want to play. In the end a few stat points in one place or the other won't make nearly as much difference as the player at the keys.

[Aeneas]

As for taking extra dex just for better reflex saves, there is a new feat coming in mod 6 which will allow you to use your int modifier instead of dex for reflex saves.

[Affront]

I tend to side on the strength (up to 10) side of the con/str/dex debate. I don't like to be encumbered (either by a spell or because all I seem to be finding in chests is armor (and I want to sell it later)).

My drow wizard has about 118 HP with his false life item equiped (he doesn't have the mino helmet). It is fairly rare that he gets hit (and I'm not super twitchy). I suppose the additional constitution would help with concentration a +10 concentration item isn't that difficult to find at level 14 and as I'm not getting hit that often I'm not having to make concentration checks. I wear a heavy fortification item too so I'm protected against criticals.

At the end of the day, I don't think it really matters as long as you are comfortable with the trade offs of having a sub 10 attribute (I think mine is charisma). Or perhaps it only matters depending on your play style.

[Riorik]

What a confused thread - a mix of good advice, some applied incorrectly - and some mixed/bad advice.

On Strength vs Constitution - a couple had it right here. I would value up to 2 points dropped into strength - perhaps merely 1 but 0 would be acceptable if you're stretched for points. The key here is, he's a Drow trying to buy a Con14 - which because he has the -2 racial penalty means he's expending 4 stat points to get from 12 -> 14. My suggestion is to shoot for odd stats - CON13, STR9, WIS9.

The why is pretty straightforward, +1 tomes aren't really that hard to get if you play for a long time. +3 items show up between 5th and 7th, and +5 around 11th --- and +5 aren't exactly trash loot but I have at least a dozen of different types gathering dust in the bank --- not even counting the ones that are in use when I couldn't get a +6 stat item. Much easier to find on the AH or get from friends.

I completely agree with the DC argument for high stats - high stats gives you the option to crowd control - and I question the value of an Evocation Focus feat...unless there's a chance it's for a prestige class and we don't even know when/if/what will show up and in what form. I'd argue that'd be much more useful in any other area - Enchantment seems extremely popular. Your nuking ability wouldn't change one iota.

Nax