Battle Cleric is a dead end

[Mad_Bombardier]

there is no need for anyone in this game that wishes to party with others on quests to build this so called "battle cleric". let me break it down for ya'll <snip>

And let me break it down for you, D&D Cleric ≠ Healbot. One of the best things about D&D is the versatility of characters and variety of builds.

Outside of raids and a few (but not all) tough boss fights, if you need a Healbot in the party, it is your character/playstyle that is gimped.

[Thame]

After Level 10.

Sure, at the early levels, it's fun, but at the higher levels, groups NEED a healbot. Not because they are "gimped", as some BC's like to claim, but because the fights are tough. Battle Clerics that act as healbots aren't as good at healing due to the loss of levels, and if they act as a tank, they are insuring their own death, as the BC in no way could stand alone against the mob that took down the other 5 party members.

As a fighter, since the cleric needs to take Wisdom points for mana, they are lower in str and con, plus are missing bonus fighter feats, and have likely taken enhancesments for cleric as well as fighter, so overall are a less effective fighter.

So what do we have with the Battle Cleric at this stage? A subpar cleric and a subpar fighter. In short, a gimp. By L14, NOBODY will want to group with you.

If you are lucky, you are in a guild where they don't mind taking a BC along. But if you are pugging, it won't be pretty. Groups that bring a BC in thinking they are a cleric will be quite upset when they are allowed to die, and the BC will find their name on a LOT of blacklists.

If the idea here is self-sufficiency, there are ways to do it without gimping your abilities at higher levels.

1) Build a fighter or barb with a splash of bard. Gives you heal wands without gimping the tank ability, plus, you get to fascinate if you really need it.

2) Build a fighter with 3 levels of Pally and 1 level of cleric (need cha for this one). You get pally aura, charisma bonus to saves, immunity to fear and disease, and the cleric splash allows you to throw all the cleric wands and scrolls, and gives you bless and a few other low level goodies. You do lose top fighter enhancements and 2 bonus feats, though.

(WF need to add a splash of sorc to a pure fighter/barb for wands)

The important thing about these builds is you are self sufficient, you are obviously a tank (so there shouldn't be any issues about asked to "healbot") AND you can have a useful toon at higher levels.

IMO, Battle cleric is fine if you just want to run lowbie quests, but it's not viable in the long run.

Wow You have no clue what your talking about do you? or are you truely this narrow minded. I would gladly put my battle cleric up against your fighter and cleric anyday of the week. at 12 cleric I could easily lead a grp of 14's in kills and play healer at the same time. Any group I have been with would tell you the same.

[Aspenor]

D&D Cleric ≠ Healbot.

Hey MB, how'd you do that??

[Aspenor]

Just thought everybody should know, my blue bar does NOT equal your red bar. If I can carry around upwards of 500 heal scrolls, so can you, if you cannot use them, I will be more than happy to use them on you.

Do I use my SP for healing, yes, but that is my choice.

I am not a battle cleric by any means, I am more offensive casting oriented than anything else.

If you dont like it, dont group with me, I play almost all clerics, trust me, I will find a group no problem.

Asp > Vanash
Vanash = Clown
Cleric = Spellcaster in armor (or not) that happens to have heal spells


But seriously, I hardly ever run with clerics. Having a battle cleric along is kindof nice, actually.

[Nick_RC]

Asp >
But seriously, I hardly ever run with clerics. Having a battle cleric along is kindof nice, actually.

You know it B....!

[Ghoste]

How about the guy who is SUPPOSED to be praying to his Gods for the ability to heal others actually act like a cleric and show some generosity of spirit with a heal? I mean, RP anyone? Clerics are priests, after all, so show some humility and generosity and compassion and THROW THE DARN HEAL SPELL!

See, now that's where you're getting confused.

I don't know about other clerics, but mine follows the Becoming God. He hates fleshlings and his goal is to eventually wipe them all off the face of Eberron.

When you get heals from me, don't think of it as a show of compassion or love. Think of it as me sharpening a tool that I'm using to meet my own ends. If I let that tool get dull, it's because I'm using another tool at the time.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Hey MB, how'd you do that??

Copy/paste from Wikipedia's Table of Mathematical Symbols. I'm sure it's in some font pack somewhere. I guess I was really tired of everyone using != for ≠ all the time.

[Cowdenicus]

My clerics are all Chaotic, I may heal you, I may not. Depends on how valuable you are to me at the time.

[Cowdenicus]

Asp > Vanash
Vanash = Clown
Cleric = Spellcaster in armor (or not) that happens to have heal spells


But seriously, I hardly ever run with clerics. Having a battle cleric along is kindof nice, actually.

Don't make me get all the other clowns to pay you a visit.

I do have to agree with you though, the difference between my cleric and most sorcerors (other than alot of spell points) is I can wear armor, and throw mass heals.

[Mhykke]

Meh.

There's no build that's bad or good in itself.

It's all about the person pushing the buttons.

[CaptGrim]

Interesting points all.


And it's funny how vehement the battle clerics are about their sub-class.
just tring to impart wisdom ( pun )
However, what do they do in Velah; fight, or hide in Cleric corner?
If I'm the only rezer then yes, for the group I will hide, but If not I'm hacking and throwing mass cures, and heals
What do they do in Reaver? Heal or try to run as main aggro tank on Stormie?
LOL well actually my WF battlemage does just that consistantly, BTW I never call out for heals and my AC is 12
Tough to do both, and for all their vaunted buffing ability, the pure cleric can do the same for a tank.
They "can" but why when you could do it better yourself

hmm

[sigtrent]

fighter + cleric = gimped fighter and gimped healer

Spoken like a guy who has never played on.

[redoubt]

Interesting points all.

(And for those who think I am annoyed at BC's right now, cheers on you, you're right. Both BC incidents have happened in the last two weeks. There have been more than a few others, but those two were bad, and came in fairly rapid succession. However, my position on this isn't one of anger, but thoughtfulness on the issue of BC's and what I have seen from them in general. As I said, the ubers can do amazing things with their super-twinked toons, but the regular player is just building a bad cleric and a weak fighter in combination. Period.)

Have you ever played a cleric in DDO? (healbot or battle or other?)

I've had 4. I've never had to heal a battle cleric (except when he is me). I've had a lot of barbs soak up my entire mana bar in one fight because they were stupid. Even had a battle bard needing heals from my battle-cleric, now that was funny!

Also, when my caster drops something heavy to kill stuff, I stand like a man so the others in the party can help lay down DPS too, oh and the cleric knows where to find me if I need a heal. Course with displacement, barks, stoneskin, blocking, pots and wands, I hold up pretty good. Maybe the BCs weren't healing you because they had to chase the mobs that were chasing you instead of working as a team?

[redoubt]

there is no need for anyone in this game that wishes to party with others on quests to build this so called "battle cleric". let me break it down for ya'll

.

Same question for you... Every been a cleric? Oh... looks like you started a new level 1 cleric. Try him out. Is he a healbot? If he is, I'd like you opinion of him once you cap him at 14.4 and get the 1750 favor. (That way we know you've really played it a bit.)

Or based on your other high level characters are you building something else and hoping to convince someone else to play the healbot for you?

[SaberMonkey]

I have a capped lvl 14 Healbot Cleric, You know, the 1300 sp, 20 DV variety. Frankly the most boring character I have, sure he can Destruct, Cometfall, Searing light, etc. Sure he can Heal, but he has a 30 AC, 168 HP and is slow as molasses. Not my idea of fun, I made a battle cleric after doing alot of research and seeing a bunch of people I know pull it off. Will I be good at it? Maybe. Will it suck? Maybe. I have good gear, a good build, and am a decent player. So far I do a better job at healing than most clerics of my level. Possibly because I played a Healbot first so I know the basics of playing a cleric, as well as playing a ton of melee based characters. Battle clerics aren't for everyone, just as a ton of other builds and classes out there. I have run into crappy players of every race and class. Get used to it.

[cridus]

I've been called a battle cleric a lot of times, as a 13/1 cleric/fighter.

Standing I have 18 str, 18 con, nothing uber at the high levels and I don't kill mobs like a true fighter can, no you are correct. But I'm not getting hit by mobs who have been:
A) Soundbursted, stunned means free crits
B) Cometfalled, can't hit me when they are sitting on there butt
C) Kited through a bladebarrier
D) Destruction
E) Feared or Shaken from my belt and armor
F) Commanded/Greater Commanded


I duel wield Tenderizers, which stun surprisingly well, plus when I sword and board, I carry utlity weapons such as destroyers and cursespewers, like I said nothing major. But if any mob gets to the back row I can handle it. And I'm usually on the frontlines with the tanks, as mass heals work best there.

As for a gimped healer!!!! my best heal was 1138hp on a human,
I consistantly crit for 965 HP on any race except the warforged, but
I crit a warforged for 482HP.

BC's are not gimped, they are the way that clerics were ususally used in PnP.
Can I pure heal in a pinch, I occasionally main heal in a raid, and on several occassions been the only "healer" on many successful TOR runs.

I'm sorry, you've had some bad experiences where you can't handle the aggro you generated, self-sufficient is key to survive. I have my sp for buffs to pass out to people that need it in the beginning of the quest, the remainder of my sp is for offensive spells I will heal people in combat if they bit off more than they can chew, i.e. OP's caster. And don't think I'm going to use my healing scrolls often. They aren't cheap and I ain't breaking the bank to keep a PuG on its feet that can't heal themselves. I use my scrolls for raids and guild runs only. Wands I don't care so much, fairly cheap for the amt of healing they do. And will save me all my sp for offensive casting

[LOUDRampart]

I play a heal-bot and am d*** proud of it!

That said, I would add the strength of this game is the versatility of builds. I don't care if someone is a BC or a splash of rogue/anything else. If it's built right it can be an excellent companion. Anyone who can't see that has a rather narrow view of what this game can and should be.

[STROBE]

deleted

[Lizardgrad89]

I'm sorry, you've had some bad experiences where you can't handle the aggro you generated, self-sufficient is key to survive. I have my sp for buffs to pass out to people that need it in the beginning of the quest, the remainder of my sp is for offensive spells I will heal people in combat if they bit off more than they can chew, i.e. OP's caster. And don't think I'm going to use my healing scrolls often. They aren't cheap and I ain't breaking the bank to keep a PuG on its feet that can't heal themselves. I use my scrolls for raids and guild runs only. Wands I don't care so much, fairly cheap for the amt of healing they do. And will save me all my sp for offensive casting

You're right, my bad.

Need to play battle cleric style.

From now on I won't cast any firewall, cone of cold, CK, etc.

I will use all my mana for self buffing when needed, and just melee.

Being a sorc, I will need to range to keep from getting hurt, but I'm a drow, so I can use a shuriken.

I won't get a lot of aggro, but if I do, I can PK any mob that has focused on me, and if the party looks like it's going to wipe, I can always D door out of danger.

Because what's best for me is more important than what's best for the party.

I mean that is the Battle Cleric mantra isn't it? What's good for you is more important than what's good for the group? That's what I think I'm hearing.

[Aspenor]

You're right, my bad.

Need to play battle cleric style.

From now on I won't cast any firewall, cone of cold, CK, etc.

I will use all my mana for self buffing when needed, and just melee.

Being a sorc, I will need to range to keep from getting hurt, but I'm a drow, so I can use a shuriken.

I won't get a lot of aggro, but if I do, I can PK any mob that has focused on me, and if the party looks like it's going to wipe, I can always D door out of danger.

Because what's best for me is more important than what's best for the party.

I mean that is the Battle Cleric mantra isn't it? What's good for you is more important than what's good for the group? That's what I think I'm hearing.

Does anybody else not understand this at all??

My sorc uses firewall, cone of cold, and fireballs and only occasionally will a cleric absolutely have to heal me. Occasionally.....