Battle Cleric is a dead end

[DoctorWhofan]

I think yours suffer from Melee Degeneration Syndrome and are considered Healing-capable.

[DoctorWhofan]

I was grouping with a pure cleric who resented being called a cleric (even though he was still doing a great job healing the fleshlings) so we eventually started calling him a "divine blender". He seemed to like that better.

I am the food processor of healing!

[juniorpfactors]

I am the food processor of healing!

well I guess I will just wait for my name to show renamejr.....and choose a new name "75%" cause thats all I am

brutal trissa, JRP steps on 100% cleric neck .... do you feel the 75%? what , what was that...

the reason we make battle clerics is cause we dont need clerics who just stand around healing...who wants just 5 people killing when you can have 6= everything dead much faster

o wait thats the opposite of your arguement

Jrp not very happy with trissa talk today, and you certainly cannot make that statement based on a REAVER raid of all quests...kills mean nothing there...and TS is childsplay

[DoctorWhofan]

well I guess I will just wait for my name to show renamejr.....and choose a new name "75%" cause thats all I am

brutal trissa, JRP steps on 100% cleric neck .... do you feel the 75%? what , what was that...

the reason we make battle clerics is cause we dont need clerics who just stand around healing...who wants just 5 people killing when you can have 6= everything dead much faster

o wait thats the opposite of your arguement

Jrp not very happy with trissa talk today, and you certainly cannot make that statement based on a REAVER raid of all quests...kills mean nothing there...and TS is childsplay

Jrp didn't read that I said, Most of the battle clerics... YOu are definatlly on my exception list! And you have proven that over and over. God, not the that silly Reaver raid, it wasn't BASED on you, It was was based on all the other stupid "battle" cleric idiota in the world. Some people can do it, but it is very very few.

And, you didn't have to actually step on me to be a pain in the neck!

[juniorpfactors]

Jrp didn't read that I said, Most of the battle clerics... YOu are definatlly on my exception list! And you have proven that over and over. God, not the that silly Reaver raid, it wasn't BASED on you, It was was based on all the other stupid "battle" cleric idiota in the world. Some people can do it, but it is very very few.

And, you didn't have to actually step on me to be a pain in the neck!

ok..jrp comes out of semi-retirement(he has been really lazy)and takes foot off neck...give trissa a hand up...trissa stands kicks jrp and runs back to TS, glad I am still a pain ........I just like to stir the soup, what else is there to do, jrp has nothing else to do until the really fix the raid...god i hate the helen keller room

[Twerpp]

If your character requires a healbot in party, it might be time to consider a reroll.

I couldnt disagree more.

There are great 2 handed barbs/fighters and 2wf rangers/fighters/barbs who are dealing insane amounts of damage and inevitably will get smacked a few times. Is it such a big deal to toss them heals to keep the Zergfest going or would you rather wait for them to drink 15-25 pots to replenish their hundreds of hitpoints that just stood in the way of the mobs and your squishy death?

Thats like saying if your character requires a mage in party it might be time to consider a re-roll.

[Luthen]

I couldnt disagree more.

There are great 2 handed barbs/fighters and 2wf rangers/fighters/barbs who are dealing insane amounts of damage and inevitably will get smacked a few times. Is it such a big deal to toss them heals to keep the Zergfest going or would you rather wait for them to drink 15-25 pots to replenish their hundreds of hitpoints that just stood in the way of the mobs and your squishy death?

Thats like saying if your character requires a mage in party it might be time to consider a re-roll.

I have to disagree... sort of. Yes there are certain builds which have higher DPS in melee however not all of them need babysitting. It is the build and player both which need to be watched. I know a 2 weapon Ranger who has 350+ hp and never needs constant attention. I know a Barb with 450+ hp and uses 2h fighting style and never needs babysitting. Some people just do not know how to handle themselves and it's as simple as that. Maby this is an elitist POV but it doesnt lessen the truth.

[Cowdenicus]

I have to disagree... sort of. Yes there are certain builds which have higher DPS in melee however not all of them need babysitting. It is the build and player both which need to be watched. I know a 2 weapon Ranger who has 350+ hp and never needs constant attention. I know a Barb with 450+ hp and uses 2h fighting style and never needs babysitting. Some people just do not know how to handle themselves and it's as simple as that. Maby this is an elitist POV but it doesnt lessen the truth.

I bet they are not in DWAT.

I joke I joke, I kid I kid.

[Luthen]

I bet they are not in DWAT.

I joke I joke, I kid I kid.

So when's that server transfer go through Cowbell?

[Ringos]

There are obviously good Battle Clerics out the (meaning those who melee), but I know that I probably won't be building another. I don't like running mine much at all. I DO like having a cleric that can Destruct, Banish etc. Now THAT is the kind of Battle Cleric I have grown to love. Mind you, I still consider healing my top priority, but sometimes spending a bit of mana to kill the bad guys is more efficient than spending the mana on healing.

Jrp, kills in the Reaver mean everything (just kidding)! Running with your group last night, I did actually had FUN in a Reaver raid while taking out the elementals instead of just watching the red bars 100% of the time. I am reworking my feats and enhancements to become a bit better at dealin' death, as I've grown to like it!

[Zenako]

Re Reaver Raid (such as it is), my cleric has led the ahem killl count in there more than once. Elementals DO NOT LIKE Destruction at all. And with things like Divine Healing, you can keep a GOOD tank standing without using a single spell point. A good MEAT Shield takes lots of Curing, a GOOD tank, not very much.

[ccheath776]

After Level 10.

Sure, at the early levels, it's fun, but at the higher levels, groups NEED a healbot. Not because they are "gimped", as some BC's like to claim, but because the fights are tough. Battle Clerics that act as healbots aren't as good at healing due to the loss of levels, and if they act as a tank, they are insuring their own death, as the BC in no way could stand alone against the mob that took down the other 5 party members.

As a fighter, since the cleric needs to take Wisdom points for mana, they are lower in str and con, plus are missing bonus fighter feats, and have likely taken enhancesments for cleric as well as fighter, so overall are a less effective fighter.

So what do we have with the Battle Cleric at this stage? A subpar cleric and a subpar fighter. In short, a gimp. By L14, NOBODY will want to group with you.

If you are lucky, you are in a guild where they don't mind taking a BC along. But if you are pugging, it won't be pretty. Groups that bring a BC in thinking they are a cleric will be quite upset when they are allowed to die, and the BC will find their name on a LOT of blacklists.

If the idea here is self-sufficiency, there are ways to do it without gimping your abilities at higher levels.

1) Build a fighter or barb with a splash of bard. Gives you heal wands without gimping the tank ability, plus, you get to fascinate if you really need it.

2) Build a fighter with 3 levels of Pally and 1 level of cleric (need cha for this one). You get pally aura, charisma bonus to saves, immunity to fear and disease, and the cleric splash allows you to throw all the cleric wands and scrolls, and gives you bless and a few other low level goodies. You do lose top fighter enhancements and 2 bonus feats, though.

(WF need to add a splash of sorc to a pure fighter/barb for wands)

The important thing about these builds is you are self sufficient, you are obviously a tank (so there shouldn't be any issues about asked to "healbot") AND you can have a useful toon at higher levels.

IMO, Battle cleric is fine if you just want to run lowbie quests, but it's not viable in the long run.

This is why it is good to run with friends or make sure the group understands your character before joining.
My guild has a cleric and I have a cleric. They are healing purposes.
But there is one character I have. My dwarf that is a battle cleric.
They know that I am going to fight. If I get in with a PUG. I let them know that I will spot heal and I will RAISE dead players but my main job is fighting. When asked I say my dwarf is a cleric because it tends to get him free drinks at the bar.

[Impaqt]

This thread is still GOing?

Well, I guess its better to have one LOng one rather than a differnt short one each week.. the fact that its remained open is a good sign....

[ErgonomicCat]

I am just going to start callin' my 10/1 cleric/fighter a 'cleric that can use martial weapons' instead of a 'battle cleric'!

SEE?! SEE?!

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...63#post1431863

I had a plan, I just didn't know where to go with it.

Everyone go there and provide useful input.

[amysrevenge]

This thread is still GOing?

Well, I guess its better to have one LOng one rather than a differnt short one each week.. the fact that its remained open is a good sign....

I'm somewhat impressed that, while it looked like it was going to get fiery at times, it never actually went all the way into the inferno...

I play a BC*, but in a static/guild group. I would very much hesitate to play one in a PUG.

(For that matter, it is a all-warforged group, and I'd hesitate to play him in groups with fleshies to need healing lol)

I keep waiting for this "inevitable" hammer to drop, and respec out my combat feats for casting feats. Every time we level up I look back on the previous level and try to decide if it's hopeless to melee, or if I can stick with it one more level. I'm up to level 9 now and I'm still a valid front-liner.

Mike
*My own BC is a "Greatsword wielding, Command-casting, Bbn1/ClrX who can self buff to 32 Str, and remove conditions like blindness and negative levels (and death) between fights."

[ThrasherGT]

After Level 10.

Sure, at the early levels, it's fun, but at the higher levels, groups NEED a healbot. Not because they are "gimped", as some BC's like to claim, but because the fights are tough. Battle Clerics that act as healbots aren't as good at healing due to the loss of levels, and if they act as a tank, they are insuring their own death, as the BC in no way could stand alone against the mob that took down the other 5 party members.

As a fighter, since the cleric needs to take Wisdom points for mana, they are lower in str and con, plus are missing bonus fighter feats, and have likely taken enhancesments for cleric as well as fighter, so overall are a less effective fighter.

So what do we have with the Battle Cleric at this stage? A subpar cleric and a subpar fighter. In short, a gimp. By L14, NOBODY will want to group with you.

If you are lucky, you are in a guild where they don't mind taking a BC along. But if you are pugging, it won't be pretty. Groups that bring a BC in thinking they are a cleric will be quite upset when they are allowed to die, and the BC will find their name on a LOT of blacklists.

If the idea here is self-sufficiency, there are ways to do it without gimping your abilities at higher levels.

1) Build a fighter or barb with a splash of bard. Gives you heal wands without gimping the tank ability, plus, you get to fascinate if you really need it.

2) Build a fighter with 3 levels of Pally and 1 level of cleric (need cha for this one). You get pally aura, charisma bonus to saves, immunity to fear and disease, and the cleric splash allows you to throw all the cleric wands and scrolls, and gives you bless and a few other low level goodies. You do lose top fighter enhancements and 2 bonus feats, though.

(WF need to add a splash of sorc to a pure fighter/barb for wands)

The important thing about these builds is you are self sufficient, you are obviously a tank (so there shouldn't be any issues about asked to "healbot") AND you can have a useful toon at higher levels.

IMO, Battle cleric is fine if you just want to run lowbie quests, but it's not viable in the long run.

'Cause My Main cleric is a "battle cleric", and I get ZERO complaints from those I group with, be it guild or pug.......
My stats are:
STR 20
DEX 22
CON 22
INT 16
WIS 24
CHR 16

I have 1124 sp and 214 hp

Now, I don't want or need any advice about why My build is "gimped" or "wrong" because the fact is that My build
is competitive in most phases of this game. Do I miss a destruction or greater command now and then? Of course.
The Main point is that I know how to play My clericso that I can be the most beneficial to the party as a whole.
This means 2 things: I know when to fight, but more importantly, I know when NOT to fight......Even when I do melee,
I see myself as a "support" fighter, mainly focusing on paralyze and destruct (you know, the -4 ac weapons) to help the other fighters take down the mobs more quickly.

I guess the real point here is that no matter what build you have, you will be effective if you know how to play the character you've
made and not try to be something that your character cannot be.

Peace and Chicken Grease

[jmonty]

'Cause My Main cleric is a "battle cleric", and I get ZERO complaints from those I group with, be it guild or pug.......
My stats are:
STR 20
DEX 22
CON 22
INT 16
WIS 24
CHR 16

I have 1124 sp and 214 hp

****, did you have all +3 tomes?

[nbhs275]

****, did you have all +3 tomes?

those stats arent so high that +3 tomes are needed. If he is a human, it would be

12 base str
14 base dex
14 base con
8 base int
14 base wis
8 base cha

Easy stuff. my dwarf has

26 str (18 base +6 spell +2 tome )< +4 rage +4 madstone +2 rage pot = 36 str>
20 dex (14 base +4 item +2 tome )
26 con (16 base +2 tome +6 item +2 enhancment) < +4 rage +8 madstone +2 rage pot = 40 con >
16 intel (8 base +2 tome +6 item<<the napkin>>
26 wis (16 base +2 tome +6 item +2 enhancment)
10 cha

1101 mana, 357, can hit 450+ with a full rage cocktail

[GeneralDiomedes]

Easy stuff. my dwarf has

26 str (18 base +6 spell +2 tome )< +4 rage +4 madstone +2 rage pot = 36 str>
20 dex (14 base +4 item +2 tome )
26 con (16 base +2 tome +6 item +2 enhancment) < +4 rage +8 madstone +2 rage pot = 40 con >
16 intel (8 base +2 tome +6 item<<the napkin>>
26 wis (16 base +2 tome +6 item +2 enhancment)
10 cha

Your base numbers are off by 6 build points assuming 6 base charisma.

[nbhs275]

Your base numbers are off by 6 build points assuming 6 base charisma.

I included level points into base,

but i also mislabaled, con is 17base +6 item +1 enhancment +2 tome.

But the outcome is still the same.

26 str, 20 dex, 26 con, 16 int, and 26 wisdom. charisma is 10 witha +4 ring.