The Twitch Game - Do you like it? Be heard!

[Pellegro]

One thing that in my mind has always made DDO stand out over those other MMOs (at least those I've played) is that its got at least a little bit of twitch game to it. Its not an FPS, but its worlds closer to one than WOW, LOTRO, AO, or from what I've heard, any other gaming system. Over and over you hear that DDOs combat is superior, and I agree, and the reason (to me) is that its twitchier. More to do. More movement. More real-time tactics. More.

Notably, I am a former FPS player, and I enjoy the incorporation of hand-eye coordination, real dexterity, etc. into the game. (Note: DDO is a far cry from an FPS ... as those who have played competitive FPSs can attest.)

That said, I wonder what others think, specifically:

Do you like the twitch factor? Would you like to see more of it? Do you hate it? Be heard!

The reason I ask ... in the Abbott raid (currently the most difficult quest in game), there is apparently a fair amount of "twitch" gaming involved - mini-games/puzzles that require fast reactions. In perusing the feedback thread, I see lots of feedback that people *hate* this. And it surprises me, although I guess it shouldn't seeing as so many hated (or still hate) the Pit, another quest that requires more than minimal hand-eye coordination.

So, I figure, ***, I'll open an unofficial poll.

Do you all like having some quests that require hand/eye coordination, or do you hate it?

Would you rather see just a few non-raid quests that implement that type of dynamic, so that you don't have to run it except for favor?

Would you rather see such quests banished altogether?

Do you like it as it is now?

Be heard !

[MysticTheurge]

I both like and dislike the twitch factor.

But overall, I'd like to see it be less important than it is in some quests (the pit, what I hear of the Abbot, etc.).

I can accept the dodging arrows/ray spells, having to be in range and facing properly for melee attacks/spells. But I'd like to see those things eased up a bit too (i.e. arrows/rays moving faster).

But the really twitch-y/platform-y quests can be quite annoying for those of us who'd prefer Dungeons and Dragons Online to be a little more like Dungeons and Dragons and a little less like an FPSMMOG.

[Poobah]

My characters have superior twitch skills, alas I do not. Events inside the game should be mostly influenced by my characters' skill - not my rl twitch skills, my internet connection or PC.

That said, I do like the DDO combat system better than the few others that I have tried.

My frustration is with some of the Mario Brothers fun. If my character has a high jump and high dex, I should be able to get where I need to be. The reality is that my character is handicapped, by my big fingers on this laptop keyboard.

[Turial]

I like the twitch aspect of combat in DDO but dislike it when it becomes a main factor in completing a puzzle or quest.

[miceelf88]

I don't mind twitch too much for things like jumping or dodging. I'm not good at it, but there was something for me to do at the bottom of the Pit, healing folk and killing slimes. IN the Pit, as painful as it was for me, the jumping was inherent to the quest. It made sense in an organic way.

But making my character play a video game to defeat a god seems kind of strange. My character has low dex, so it makes sense, but I agree- my rogue should not be gimped by my poor connection.

[Spectralist]

Do you like the twitch factor? Would you like to see more of it? Do you hate it? Be heard!

Yup, its one of the main reasons i prefer this to other MMOs.

[Rilen]

Live by the twitch, die by the twitch. I'm definately a fan. :-)

[MrCow]

I do agree in favor of people who say its an asset to the game to have twitch but it should not be required to do parts of the game.

However, I absolutely love twitch when I'm in the mood to be focused on twitch. The Pit is one of my favorite quests and I will gladly run it for the twitch factor or for twitch inept (twitch handicapped, twitch disabled, uncoordinated... what do you people like to be called?). Other things like Ghola Fan's trap room, the ability to tumble-cast on a casting class, ranged weaponry (even with the bugs), and being the crazy jumping headless-chicken arcane all make me happy.

I love twitch!!!

[Lorien_the_First_One]

My characters have superior twitch skills, alas I do not. Events inside the game should be mostly influenced by my characters' skill - not my rl twitch skills, my internet connection or PC.

That said, I do like the DDO combat system better than the few others that I have tried.

My frustration is with some of the Mario Brothers fun. If my character has a high jump and high dex, I should be able to get where I need to be. The reality is that my character is handicapped, by my big fingers on this laptop keyboard.

I agree completely. We need a D&D (ie stat based) approach and not twitch testing.

[Strakeln]

I love the twitch. I love the FPS-ish element. I love the Mario Bros stuff.

But I don't like being required to rely on others for the same level of skill I expect of myself. This is where my frustrations lie with the Abbott. I suspect I am not alone.

[BlameCandida]

I will gladly run it for the twitch factor or for twitch inept (twitch handicapped, twitch disabled, uncoordinated... what do you people like to be called?).

Well considering I wouldn't have much favor if it weren't for that, you can call me thankful.

I like the twitch to some degree. I enjoy being able to control swinging and movement in combat. When I went over to WoW for a few weeks, and LotRO for a few months, I really felt a difference in the combat style. I hated playing my Champion and Guardian because I felt bored waiting for the weapons to move. However, I really liked playing my Hunter in LotRO compared to my ranged-specced fighter in DDO. Playing ranged in LotRO was somewhat twitchier, but I enjoyed it because it gave me something to do instead of just waiting for my bow to go off. (Pssst, CODOG, see how Hunters in LotRO work).

I'm not a big twitch fan when it comes to the Mario games though. I think I have improved through as I've run the dungeons more. I remember back in the old days being afraid to run VoN 2 and VoN 4 because I couldn't handle the jumping...to say nothing of The Pit! After my LotRO break I came back to DDO, and I have a lot less trouble with the movement, but I still don't like it.

I don't think my real-life abilities should affect my character's jumping abilities, the same way my real-life strength doesn't prevent my character from wielding a greataxe in game.

[Cruzer]

Almost any MMO has a "twitch" factor too it. I do love the DDO twitch factor. I like that my personal "twitch" skill has an effect on my actual character. I cast scorching ray on wraiths and shadows and hit them. I mouse look 90% of the time I run or swing as a melee.

Sometmies I don't even target an enemy before casting a ray effect.. i just mouse-look and get the red crosshair and fire. But i've played more FPS games than MMOs. I have to agree that in a D&D setting, the player's twitch skill should count for les than the character's skill points. I have no problem with the Pit or Abbot raids, as I've got decent "twitch" skills and my own IRL coordination can get me through it. But I have to say it doesn't work well when my personal abilities help my character when someone who has 20+ ranks in skill and jump can't do the same thing. In DDO, I like it. From a D&D PnP aspect, it ruins a bit of the gameplay.

[Borror0]

I love the twitch. I love the FPS-ish element. I love the Mario Bros stuff.

But I don't like being required to rely on others for the same level of skill I expect of myself. This is where my frustrations lie with the Abbott. I suspect I am not alone.

You are not.

Well, could be implemented... but differently.

[mgoldb2]

My frustration is with some of the Mario Brothers fun. If my character has a high jump and high dex, I should be able to get where I need to be. The reality is that my character is handicapped, by my big fingers on this laptop keyboard.

Am curious how you want that implemented?

A)
Do you want jumping automated? Get close to an edge and it jumps for you?

I played games that do that but to me that would take away a big part of the fun of DDO game mechanics.

B)
Or is it just a matter of quest design not requiring lots of jumping etc. To that I say there are lots of people that love quests like the Pit. It is personally one of my favorite quests. It a small percent of the quests that require it just avoid them. There some quests I don’t find enjoyable so I don’t run them often am not going to ask them to be removed.

The Abott raid is the only place I see for complaint because of the randomness factor. I thing it a bit too much to require 12 people to all have be able to do any 3 puzzle or it time to start over if the wrong people get the puzzle.

Am really curious what people mean by stat base approach using jumping as an example. Is it A or B or is there another idea am not thinking of that you mean?

[DoctorWhofan]

It is thereason why I could not play any MMO besides this one. THis is my first MMO, and the rest seem like the game is doingall thework for you.

Of course, ask me when my cleric is trying to get to that chest in the DQ pre-raid, and I'll tell you how much it sucks!

[JayDubya]

Like others, the twitch/real time combat feel of DDO is what seperates it from all the other MMO games out there. It's a big chunk of what makes it exciting. For example:

• The speed and swim runs in the Crucible.
• Flying down the lever/spear passages in the Reaver
• Dodging chaos balls & trying to dodge beholders
• The mario brothers aspects of the Pit
• The puzzle in the Reaver, while dodging elementals
• Jumping across the dragon's back
• Timing the traps in VoN2, etc

[BlueLightBandit]

Like others, the twitch/real time combat feel of DDO is what seperates it from all the other MMO games out there. It's a big chunk of what makes it exciting. For example:

• The speed and swim runs in the Crucible.
• Flying down the lever/spear passages in the Reaver
• Dodging chaos balls & trying to dodge beholders
• The mario brothers aspects of the Pit
• The puzzle in the Reaver, while dodging elementals
• Jumping across the dragon's back
• Timing the traps in VoN2, etc

I'm not seeing how any of these would be different in any other MMO. All of these things are similar to what's found in LOTRO, WOW, EQ2, and AOC... except for maybe the puzzle aspsect.

The difference in DDOs melee combat is the fact that the player controls every swing, and character stats. Add onto this a large variety of weapon bonuses and types, and you're getting a customizable experience. WOW for example, at higher levels every item is a named item, not very custom tailored, and for combat you select the enemy and click attack... when the enemy is close enough your character swings until the mob is either dead or moves out of range. You still control where you stand, or how you jump, or if you have to navigate a tricky path to get there...

Not a lot of other MMOs have D&D type bonuses and combat techniques... thus evasion vs heavy armor type discussions don't happen in other games. There, you don the heaviest armor for your character and hack away. No need to worry about weapon finesse, or improved uncanny dodge. This eliminates anything like the crucible underwater path in other MMOs, simply because EVERYBODY there would take damage equally.

Twitch skills in DDO are not that unusual when comparing the running/jumping/swimming aspect... heck, other MMOs even have underwater combat.

My complaint is that when you take the basic principle of D&D... it's my characters ability to complete tasks... not my players... that matters in the end. Then throw in the need for a player to have timing and coordination... it alienates certain individuals who play this for the RPG aspect, and not the FPS.

There's a reason that people play WoW as opposed to HALO... because they are different. Now DDO's trying to do both, and I for one don't like it.

[Aspenor]

Nintendo skills, ftw. I support twitch gameplay.

[Girevik]

Put me down in the "I don't think twitch skills should be required" camp.

DDO should require regular keyboard input to discourage "two-boxing" and the use of "bots", but it should not require much in the way of leet video game skills other than for the occassional optional side objective or short cut. And these are best implemented so that not all of the party is required to possess them.

What makes DDO different, and superior, to many of the other games is the actual quest nature of almost all of the quests.

[alcmaeon]

The only reson I play DDO over the other mmorpgs is the twitch fighting. ITs why I don't play LOTRO which was just a throwback (with better graphics) to EQ/WOW/EQ2, etc