The Twitch Game - Do you like it? Be heard!

[Rowanheal]

Well, I am not a terribly good twitcherer...

I always die on the swim in the crucible...

I hate the jumps in the pit...

But, I love DDO.

I am just not good at the twitchier parts of the game... which is why I make my hubby come to the keyboard and do them for me

And, sigh... I am HORRIBLE at puzzles. I shouldn't admit this, but I FINALLY figured out the one in goodblades. I know...I am sad huh! (you have no idea how many gleeful hours of pleasure my hubby has had laughing at me)

Oh Oh but I practiced for the Reaver puzzle That one at least makes sense to me...kinda... I mean it's colors

See ya in Stormreach,

-R

[apollojuly]

Put me down in the "I don't think twitch skills should be required" camp.

DDO should require regular keyboard input to discourage "two-boxing" and the use of "bots", but it should not require much in the way of leet video game skills other than for the occassional optional side objective or short cut. And these are best implemented so that not all of the party is required to possess them.

What makes DDO different, and superior, to many of the other games is the actual quest nature of almost all of the quests.

Put me down too for what this guy said.

[GrayOldDruid]

Do you like the twitch factor? Would you like to see more of it? Do you hate it? Be heard!

Well, having just learned what "Twitch" is from this post, if a quest REQUIRES twitch, no, not liking...
mostly for the same reason that I don't like a quest that REQUIRES a high INT to open a door or high STR to pull a lever. It prevents somebody from completing it. Required Twitch is even worse, because you can always pull in a character with the right stat, but if you just don't have the coordination, you will never be able to complete the quest. Unless you stand at the entrance and let the uber-gamer-geek twitch through for you and only get the xp and favor, miss out on the loot. And, from what I've read here, there is no way to learn it without trying and failing over and over and over, you can't just try to figure it out because the timer is ticking and if you don't figure it out right away, boom... fail. Guaranteed re-enter and repeat.

So until they have a quest that REQUIRES slow tactical play and waiting for the rogue to disable the trap because it will Ginsu even the raged tank, I don't think they should REQUIRE twitch.

[GrayOldDruid]

And, sigh... I am HORRIBLE at puzzles. I shouldn't admit this, but I FINALLY figured out the one in goodblades.

The end of my roar, the beginning of your end.....

Took someone telling me the trick there... R E D last letter or roaR first letter of End.... stupid kerapp.

Of course, the problem was that I took the red lever the first time, so never really had to work it out.... I was like, "Okay, that is stupid, lets do Red." then "What do you mean I solved it? What was it??"

A little while later, on my third character, i was like - the answer is RED, no idea why, but its red.... and someone say, 'last letter of roaR... ' Gods! How lame. 'course, it stumped me.....

[mgoldb2]

Am still lost what stat base approach even means. Only thing I can thing of is give me less control and have computer do more stuff automatically base on your stats. Which is why I play DDO and not other games. I like the control.

Let take this for example

So until they have a quest that REQUIRES slow tactical play and waiting for the rogue to disable the trap because it will Ginsu even the raged tank, I don't think they should REQUIRE twitch.

(The following is a general question for anyone and not directed at the person I quoted)

What if the chars dont have the int or wis to come up with such a good plan.

Or is it just str,dex,con,cha you want char base. Int and Wis we leave to the person playing the game....

If you not role-playing. Player skill has to be an important aspect other wise it not much of a video game. It seem the real problem is the twitch factor and again just avoid the few quests that use them there really not that many.

[llevenbaxx]

Ive always been a big Madden/NHL200X/shooter/action-adventure type game fan and have no problem with the idea of hand-eye coordination being a difficulty to overcome.

That said I dont like it in my DDO partly becuase that never really was a part of D&D but mostly because the game doesnt run well enough, consistently enough to add this type of content in abundance or important areas imo. If the game ran better, I dont think Id have much of a problem at all though.

EDIT
Thought the thread was aiming at the extreme twitch as opposed to the every day combat, which I actually love. Nothing is better than playing my rogue, holding back from melee for that instant, you know one of the mosters is going to peel(or be peeled) off the tanks and head to the back liners. To come out of stealth and SA with a trip, dropping the beast, at just the right second is what DDO combat is all about for me. Its why Ive been here since 10 day beta.

[miceelf88]

Wow, I didn't realize that's what it was until just now. I though his shifting eyes meant we should focus on his eye color.

[MysticTheurge]

Heheh, seriously. That's classic riddling right there guys. I got it right off the bat.

[Rowanheal]

Heheh, seriously. That's classic riddling right there guys. I got it right off the bat.

BAH!

Pink ribbons for MT for being so darn smart!

*hugs*

-R

[Aspenor]

BAH!

Pink ribbons for MT for being so darn smart!

*hugs*

-R

It is guild policy that you must bathe in bleach post-MT hugs.

[JayDubya]

Heheh, seriously. That's classic riddling right there guys. I got it right off the bat.

Yeah, me too. And I gave moorew the chance to figure it out for himself, too!

[Yukiko]

Nothing makes fireball more fun then the twitch

[In_Like_Flynn]

I'd like to set my fighter on "kill" and go downstairs to watch Hell's Kitchen.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Am curious how you want that implemented?

A)
Do you want jumping automated? Get close to an edge and it jumps for you?

I played games that do that but to me that would take away a big part of the fun of DDO game mechanics.

B)
Or is it just a matter of quest design not requiring lots of jumping etc. To that I say there are lots of people that love quests like the Pit. It is personally one of my favorite quests. It a small percent of the quests that require it just avoid them. There some quests I don’t find enjoyable so I don’t run them often am not going to ask them to be removed.

The Abott raid is the only place I see for complaint because of the randomness factor. I thing it a bit too much to require 12 people to all have be able to do any 3 puzzle or it time to start over if the wrong people get the puzzle.

Am really curious what people mean by stat base approach using jumping as an example. Is it A or B or is there another idea am not thinking of that you mean?

We want to keep it interactive, the question is how much percision is required. The fact that my char has a 40 jump instead of a 10 jump should make a difference, but the fact that I may be a millisecond slower in response time to you shouldn't. In addion the the Abott raid, think about places like the pit where some of the jumps have 0 margin for error even with a good jump skill or that one chest in DQ that no matter what your jump its all about the player skill to get that chest (who hasn't seen someone spend 5 minutes jumping 100 times to try?)

On targetted spells and targetted ranged attacks I'd rather they use the appropriate attack roll (ranged touch in some cases) than physics, but that's a bit less of a problem. (I mean my 30 dex evasion build really should be able to duck that ray better than your 8 dex figher but your better twich may let you duck it before we even get saving throws...just a bit odd from a D&D perspective)

[Dirkan]

I like the twitch aspect of combat in DDO but dislike it when it becomes a main factor in completing a puzzle or quest.

Agreed

[DagazUlf]

MT sums it up for me just fine.

I both like and dislike the twitch factor.

But overall, I'd like to see it be less important than it is in some quests (the pit, what I hear of the Abbot, etc.).

I can accept the dodging arrows/ray spells, having to be in range and facing properly for melee attacks/spells. But I'd like to see those things eased up a bit too (i.e. arrows/rays moving faster).

But the really twitch-y/platform-y quests can be quite annoying for those of us who'd prefer Dungeons and Dragons Online to be a little more like Dungeons and Dragons and a little less like an FPSMMOG.

[GrayOldDruid]

What if the chars dont have the int or wis to come up with such a good plan.

If you have above a 3 INT and/or 3 WIS, that is about all that is required to not run into swinging blades. Its INSTINCT. If it hurts, don't do it. Now, maybe a big, dumb, heavily armored guy would stand there and eventually try to run past and just take the hit, but nobody - no matter how stupid - would see huge blades popping out of walls, floor and ceiling and think, "Ah, I'll just run through it and heal up later" Running a toon through is a different matter, because it doesn't really hurt you. And, you're not going to be doing a whole lot of running in full plate anyway, no matter how strong you are.

Heck, even animals - IRL - are not that stupid, usually.

As for jumping, I would like to see at least the OPTION to use character stats to do it rather than relying on my control and timing of pressing keys and the network latency to be just right in order to get to the place I want. Maybe a 'target space, then press jump' for those hard-to-twitch jumps.

"Tweek not notice things good. Not doing puzzles well either. I just hurt things good. *confused look* Who I should hurt now?"

[GrayOldDruid]

Walker Boh - Human Sorcerer Lvl 14

Dang, and I was hoping to nab that name for when Druids become available.

[cforce]

For an indication, please see name of my main character, below .

[Shade]

Thats the game we bought. Says right on the box, a game where everything is real time and skill matters. If they tried to wash that down it wouldn't be DDO anymore.

Abbot is a bad example, I wouldn't call it a heavy twich raid at all.
The puzzles are more like 80% dumb luck and 20% twitch as they are now.

Rock one you could say oh well good twich skill will win it.. But it won't. Even the best twitch players that maybe have beat it a few times will still usually fail it because its just so random. Meteors that just dont show up hit the platform no matter what, and sometimes you get knocked off, sometimes you dont .. So do the twitch part sure, but mostly roll the dice to see if you win that one.. And the dice arent in your favor.

Ice one just requires good timing at the start, then the ability to jump.. Doing some jumps is not a hard task that only some super skilled twitch player could perform. Hoping the icebergs you fire don't intersect your partnet or apear underwater or you don't lag for 1 second -- dumb luck.

Phase one you just need good communication, nothing to do will twitch skill at all.