VoN 6 on hard is not a level 11 quest

[Thrudh]

Did it on elite the other night with only a few deaths (because people weren't paying attention).

Rushing her only works well on normal. On Hard/Elite you have to change tactics.

What are those tactics? Can you give a few examples?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Wow... sounds like you had a Hard encounter. Hard having been the difficulty it was set to. Can't imagine why you think the difficulty you had fighting her would be any less than Hard.

BTW, did you bother to examine her and see her CR? Just because it was a level 11 quest doesn't mean her CR was only 11.

Actually that's what it SHOULD mean but in DDO CR is meaningless

[GeneralDiomedes]

She was using her dispelling breath weapon to do upwards of 130 hps per pass.

Dispelling Breath is a real spell in the Compendium, and Velah is a Sorcerer capable of casting this spell is she not?

[Makdar]

Wow. Yet another post of someone higher level than a quest getting beat down repeatedly by it, and then coming on to complain (or even inform) that the quest level is inaccurate.

If you are a group of people doing a quest lower level than you, and you're wiping repeatedly... you're doing something wrong. Its not the quest. Its you.

Great post Cruzer. I feel so enlightened now.

Hope you didn't learn that line from past dating partners. Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Kerr]

12 Level 14 characters with very good equipment and good coordination (all guild group that plays together all the time) should not get near instant party wipes routinely in a level 11 quest.

What can I say, sometimes you get the Dragon, sometimes the Dragon gets you. Do you expect an easy button on Hard setting for a reptile that is like 60 feet long from snout to tip of tail, breaths fire, and has claws that can rend adamantine? By the way, last I recall on Hard she's a DC 25 Red Dragon against puny level 14 characters.

[Coldin]

Just to add to Binnsr's statements, she was hitting every single attack and for upwards of 70 damage per attack not counting her crits. Our high HP barbarian got taken down in one stroke from a crit. We still beat her in 3 rushes, but Velah certainly seems overpowered for a level 11 quest. A group of level 11s would certainly have a difficult time of it.

PS. You probably didn't have a 55 AC on Level. She pretty much does a dispelling breath first, and that almost always gets rid of any buffs you might have, especially buffs from potions.

[Kerr]

Actually that's what it SHOULD mean but in DDO CR is meaningless

If I see a DC 25 next to a Red Dragon when I'm examining her, I think it does mean something. It means put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.

[Makdar]

Have you tried bringing 6 L14 characters in the Bloody Crypt on normal and killing the vampire without finding his sarcophagus? If it turns out you can't beat him (and I really don't know if you can), does this mean the quest is not a proper L6 quest?

So true!!! And part 4 of tangleroot, should be drastically increased because we can't seem to kill Wisperdoom without smashing her eggs first. (well, complete the quest anyway) Maybe if we could just find Velah's eggs. None on the ground though and she is female so none above the ground. Ahh well.

Hmm, so when we use to be able to take 4 or 5 of the same level 14 people, that we're then level 12s, and beat her down easily, the quest should have been a level 5 quest I suppose.

[Cruzer]

Great post Cruzer. I feel so enlightened now.

Hope you didn't learn that line from past dating partners. Sorry, couldn't resist.

I thought it was great too. Too bad people miss the point. I can't wait until people complain about Butcher's Path being a level 2 quest. Maybe next it will be Old Sully's Grog is too hard for a level 1.

I think Euphonia's challenge is too tough. We should just walk in, talk to her, and get our 1st rank. Please help. Those wizard stones are hard to find.

[Blazer]

Just to add to Binnsr's statements, she was hitting every single attack and for upwards of 70 damage per attack not counting her crits. Our high HP barbarian got taken down in one stroke from a crit.

If you're a group of level 14 characters, why is anyone getting critted? Between the BAM necklace and the new Heavy Fort helm, no one should be walking around these days without 100% fortification.

[spyderwolf]

the op point is that when the cap was 10 a full group could do von 6 on elite with a good plan most of the time. 12 level 10s, keep that in mind. now a full group of 14s, 12 level 14s arent getting it done. that is what his point was, not that they were dieing too much in a lower level quest.

[captain1z]

put fighters in her face

everyone should have an item of greater fire resistance

everyone should have protection from fire pots (and drink one)

clerics spam mass heals

wizards spam freezing sphere and cone of cold (max + empowered)

attack until she dies or you die

if she uses a breath weapon drink a protection pot after to counter her next one

result = her breath weapon is reduced by 90 pointsof damage + velah dies in seconds

on a bad run 1-2 people may die...but hey you can raise them after its done

[Cruzer]

the op point is that when the cap was 10 a full group could do von 6 on elite with a good plan most of the time. 12 level 10s, keep that in mind. now a full group of 14s, 12 level 14s arent getting it done. that is what his point was, not that they were dieing too much in a lower level quest.

Spyder, if you're leading von 6 hard and elite runs and having problems, I'd actually be surprised. I thought you were better than that.

[Shade]

Other then exploits being fixed, and protection from energy being made ablative, nothing has changed in the velah encouter. It was difficult but doable at level10, and remains that way today.

Many have done it on hard and elite with level10 characters, many have failed as well. So what?

It's been explained a million times before and something you should really easily pick up on if you've played the game up to level14:
Hard and Elite are NOT +1 or +2 "levels" of difficulty. The sole purpose of the +1/2 levels is for xtra XP and loot, NOT to define the level of challenge.

Anyone noob can get to level14, that does not make them better then a level10. At level10 I was better then 90% of players are now at level14 without a doubt.

Even a full group of level14 average/poor players should not nessarily be able to beat a level1 quest set to hard. Thats not the intention of difficulty. It's just not fun. The idea that oh - I just can't beat this quest so I need to grind XP to do so is boring as hell, thats WoW, thats EQ, thats every other MMO out there and the best thing DDO changed. If you can't do something in DDO you don't need to grind more levels - you need to do better, think up a better strategy, actually PLAY your character better - things that really are challenging.

Adding 1000xp so you can get +1 this or that is not a challenge, its a grind.

Hard is hard, your group needs to be highly skilled and up for a challenge to beat it. Character level does not equal skill. Not even close.

DDO is a real time game where skill matters much more so then anything else.

While you do need at least a few characters with the correct feats and stats to beat it, those requirements are not hard to meet - the other part of having a full team of good players is where the real challenge comes in.

So yea, sorry to say - your group was bad. Even if you were all level20 you might not of beat it, and thats a good thing.

Otherwise there would be absolutely no challenge to the players who are actually skilled, especially those well equiped with strong characters to back that all up, everything would be a walk in a park because its design for any **** level14 group to beat it just by throwing enough "levels" at it.

Honestly the only thing required to do this raid on hard or elite is 1 cleric with quicken and good healing dps, the rest can be anything as long as you use the correct strategy.

[BereanMalachi]

Again I absolutely agree!!!! Velah is NOT a level N10, H11, E12 quest!!!! What concernes me most about this is that Turbine seems to think that since level cap has come up so should the difficulty of their mobs especially onthe hard elite settings..... The point here boys and girls is NOT that hard meant hard even for 14 ut us that hard WAS hard for 14s !!!! The players level cap should in no way effect the playability of a level 10 dungeon..... However that would mean that something even MORE spetacular than Velah would have to come out in her stead!!!! And it simply has NOT!!!! Turbine has failed expectations on the reaver pre-raid and raid!!!! compared to Velah... the reavers fate is boring..... same with the titan!!!! Honestly I have not played the LOTD and probably will not till cap increases and I can gain xp out there !!!

Now to the OP there are ways to beat her I have taken groups from level 8s all 12 of us to all 12 14s and even some mixed 8-11, 9-12 , 10-13, 11-14 and have beat her several times .... there is a stratagy to complete on each difficulty and if the stratagy is used it is very effective !!!! She can be beaten on Normal hard and elite even bu level 8s I have done it !!!! Ask some guilds on your server that you know are a little strongetr than you are or even more advanced in their raid system they will help as killing Velah is challenging and exhilarating!!!

[Lillitheris]

Oh man I just love these 'we know how to do it, but we're not gonna tell you' -posts. Add something, ANYTHING, useful to the thread or shut up.

I kinda agree with Shade *shudder* though.
There is a world of difference between grizzled founders and , as I like to call them, "gianthold-newbs". Gianthold-newbs because they've been in the game for 3 months and joined a powergamer guild that helped them level to 14 through the usual WW-STK-TR-Delera's-SC-Co6-GH -grind in three weeks. With vorpals and disruptors provided by the guild, these guys might seem like veterans, but the truth usually comes out in a matter of minutes. Their utter lack of street-wise is baffling. "Oh, you can lock items down your inventory?" And don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming them. In fact I feel sorry for them.

Anyway. Back on topic.
Velah is ridiculously tough on Elite. But with a decent strategy it can be done, I'm sure of that. I'm thinking one of these two:

• Hero-mode. 1-3 DPS characters charge in while the rest cast Mass Cure, Fire Prot. and Raise Dead. The rest can wand whip or just look pretty.
• Hide behind the rocks and deal with the spawns. CC, DPS, Fascinate, anything. Casters nuke Velah and the rest deal with the monsters.

[Makdar]

Oh man I just love these 'we know how to do it, but we're not gonna tell you' -posts. Add something, ANYTHING, useful to the thread or shut up.

I kinda agree with Shade *shudder* though.
There is a world of difference between grizzled founders and , as I like to call them, "gianthold-newbs". Gianthold-newbs because they've been in the game for 3 months and joined a powergamer guild that helped them level to 14 through the usual WW-STK-TR-Delera's-SC-Co6-GH -grind in three weeks. With vorpals and disruptors provided by the guild, these guys might seem like veterans, but the truth usually comes out in a matter of minutes. Their utter lack of street-wise is baffling. "Oh, you can lock items down your inventory?" And don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming them. In fact I feel sorry for them.

Anyway. Back on topic.
Velah is ridiculously tough on Elite. But with a decent strategy it can be done, I'm sure of that. I'm thinking one of these two:

• Hero-mode. 1-3 DPS characters charge in while the rest cast Mass Cure, Fire Prot. and Raise Dead. The rest can wand whip or just look pretty.
• Hide behind the rocks and deal with the spawns. CC, DPS, Fascinate, anything. Casters nuke Velah and the rest deal with the monsters.

So happy that there's at least one person who doesn't feel the need to turn a simple post into a ****ing contest.

Excellent post Lillitheris.

My original point still stands. This quest as it is, is at least as difficult, if not much more difficult than the reaver and titan on the same difficulties.

I never said make it easier is the solution. Raising the base difficulty level should be done though if they are going to keep it the way it is. Hell, if one didn't have to spend the extra 20 to 40 minutes redoing VoN 5 just to get to her again after a full party wipe, I'm sure everyone would be willing to try all kinds of strategies. Problem is, many people don't have all day to play and can not afford to experiment the way the uber gamers can.

[Kerr]

on topic.
Velah is ridiculously tough on Elite. But with a decent strategy it can be done, I'm sure of that. I'm thinking one of these two:

• Hero-mode. 1-3 DPS characters charge in while the rest cast Mass Cure, Fire Prot. and Raise Dead. The rest can wand whip or just look pretty.
• Hide behind the rocks and deal with the spawns. CC, DPS, Fascinate, anything. Casters nuke Velah and the rest deal with the monsters.

Out of curiousity, as I've never hidden behind the rocks and everyone has always told me not to, the spawns that show up when you go out of sight of Velah, do they keep respawning? If it's just one wave of mobs, then that's no great issue. Even respawning it may not be depending on the types.

[Shade]

Out of curiousity, as I've never hidden behind the rocks and everyone has always told me not to, the spawns that show up when you go out of sight of Velah, do they keep respawning? If it's just one wave of mobs, then that's no great issue. Even respawning it may not be depending on the types.

There not spawns.. There summons by velah. And like all monsters, velah has unlimited spell points.... So yea there unlimited, ive seen like 50+ at once.

Makes crowd control for any long legnth of time impossible. You could simply kill them over and over but there pretty tough and will drain some resources as you go..

Worst of it is the velah can still telekiness you off the platform while behind the rocks... So a couple low rolls and some key players could be sent away... Least thats what happen to me when I tried that.. CC'd 10 or so of em, then all of sudden im making a will save roll every second until I get ejected out of the fight.

Really just have to kill her fast and heal fast to win, other tricks and strats and such can work, but are unreliable.

[tekn0mage]

Just...unbelievable

I'd like to see ANY of you go in there on Elite and start talking about "tactics" after she hits you for 146 points of damage (250 on a crit). Her fire breath does 300+ points damage (-120 fire prot, -30 resist, still ended up doing 170 points of fire damage)

It's *very* VERY obvious that none of you "tactic" players have even attempted this on Elite. Hard, maybe. But not elite. You wouldn't be spouting off the cuff about tactics and about how easy it is (just because other people may have done it).

So, go ahead and since you're all so convinced how easy it is. Show me a screenshot this weekend or go home already. This quest needs a severe "re-balance". OP is right. And no, it's not "his tactics" that are the problem. Elite is a wipefest.