VoN 6 on hard is not a level 11 quest

[Makdar]

We had a group of very well equiped level 14s doing VoN 6 last night on hard and wiped 4 times rushing velah. Are you going to tell me that a group of level 11s will be able to do that?

Velah herself is overpowered for the level of that quest. Either the quest level needs to change or she needs to not be able to nearly instantly kill everyone in the party.

[Laith]

if i ran up to an encounter and got smacked down three times in a row, i might change my approach.

i've heard insanity defined as "trying the same thing repeatedly, but expecting different results".

yes, velah can hit very hard. lots of monsters can do that though, and there's always a way to beat them.

[binnsr]

if i ran up to an encounter and got smacked down three times in a row, i might change my approach.

just sayin'...

I honestly can't think of any valid way to take her down without getting your melees in her face -- which on hard last night resulted in 3 party wipes for our 'well equipped group of lvl14 folks' before we finally beat her down. (on a side note, I can think of a way that would probably be considered an exploit so enough said about that)

Please enlighten the masses on your solution that doesn't involve folks dying.. She was hitting my rogues 55AC on every attack for 80-100hp of damage each time. I checked my combat log and there wasn't a single miss from her.
The majority of the folks in the raid group that didn't have either massive hitpoints or a great reflex save were going down in the initial rush (yes, that means all the casters were all out of it, so you can't count on things like disintegrate or acid fog).

[llevenbaxx]

Velah got the max level cap make-over. It still has some of the best loot for many builds. Why else would they need to jack it up to compensate for level14s running it. Ran it on elite with a level 11-13 once and most of us never got a swing off. She was using her dispelling breath weapon to do upwards of 130 hps per pass. Not to mention she just kept going back and forth. No longer is it a level9-10 raid imo

[Kerr]

Wow... sounds like you had a Hard encounter. Hard having been the difficulty it was set to. Can't imagine why you think the difficulty you had fighting her would be any less than Hard.

BTW, did you bother to examine her and see her CR? Just because it was a level 11 quest doesn't mean her CR was only 11.

[Ithrani]

there are a few safe spots to dodge her first breat weapon, you need to stand behind the giant rocks near the gate entrance. Have the rogue take the blast (hope for no 1's) and then you can come out from behind and throw spells and melee her. Sure at some point she will breath weapon again and you will most likely die but you know what to do then. At least you would have gotten some spells off that would have done some damage and tanks would have had a minute of damaging here before you wipe.

[binnsr]

Wow... sounds like you had a Hard encounter. Hard having been the difficulty it was set to. Can't imagine why you think the difficulty you had fighting her would be any less than Hard.

BTW, did you bother to examine her and see her CR? Just because it was a level 11 quest doesn't mean her CR was only 11.

12 Level 14 characters with very good equipment and good coordination (all guild group that plays together all the time) should not get near instant party wipes routinely in a level 11 quest.

[Ithrani]

Wow... sounds like you had a Hard encounter. Hard having been the difficulty it was set to. Can't imagine why you think the difficulty you had fighting her would be any less than Hard.

BTW, did you bother to examine her and see her CR? Just because it was a level 11 quest doesn't mean her CR was only 11.

No one is saying she should be CR 11 thats ridiculous, the OP is about her being stronger then ever. If a full raid of 9-10th level were able to complete this on normal then why are 12 level 14's failing on hard even 6 level 14's should be able to complete on hard. The quest is timed and cannot be rerun like the DQ so if you fail it's VON 5 all over again it is difficult enough the DEVS should not be making a level 10 raid any harder because of the level cap. It was their fault for putting in over powered items to begin with and now because higher level groups could easily get through for those raid items they change how strong her abilities are, how quickly she breath weapons. I have seen her do it 3 times in a row, not even attack just use breath, that should not be possible period. Just to prevent over high level groups from running a lower level raids easily, so now all the lower level groups are F******D. Try running it even on normal with a group of 9-10th levels like it was designed for. It is not fun to die 5-10 times and hope to kill her before time runs out. They ruined the DQ by making everything red named because PK and Finger of death work well on gnoll archers. And people can still duo or solo that raid, easier then a full group can. The items in the Dragon raid are way overpowered, a +6 Wis mask with what +7 intimidation min lvl 9 +6 STR mod fort belt min lvl 9 the sword of shadows does that mean that level 14 groups have to only run it on normal every time to make sure they can complete the quest to get those items. The Dragon is disproportional on Hard and Elite to her Normal version and even her Normal version is a bastardization of her original design.

[In_Like_Flynn]

12 Level 14 characters with very good equipment and good coordination and using good tactics should not get near instant party wipes routinely in a level 11 quest.

Fixed it for ya.

[Taur]

DPS+ 2 clerics + mass cure moderate = WIN!!!!

[Impaqt]

Dev devs have stated numerous times that Difficulty doesnt NOT directly scale with level. a Level 10 Quest onhard is a HARD level 10 quest.. Level 12? Level 13? More?

Raids are suposed to be difficult.... If you dont want as much of a Challenge, stick to Normal... WHy go in on Hard or Elite if you dont want to test your skill and determination?

[Ringos]

12 Level 14 characters with very good equipment and good coordination (all guild group that plays together all the time) should not get near instant party wipes routinely in a level 11 quest.

Binnsr, if I would have been with you we would have brought 'er down quick! I'm sorry I wasn't dragon ready. This is probably my fault...

[Caliban]

Did it on elite the other night with only a few deaths (because people weren't paying attention).

Rushing her only works well on normal. On Hard/Elite you have to change tactics.

[Ninety]

are you all forgetting elite velah when the level cap at 10?

it was easy then, even short manned (3-6 people)

12 level 14's, unless they are all 10 year olds doing it, on hard shouldn't die.

[tihocan]

So, fighting Velah is a straight up fight that can challenge a full party of high level characters... what's the problem, isn't that exactly what people have been asking of a raid? And what's wrong with a dragon being tough to kill?

It may not be equivalent in difficulty to a L11 quest, but the very large majority of quests in the game do not scale linearly in difficulty either.

[arminius]

I kinda wish they would just go ahead and raise the quest levels for Butcher's Path, Irestone Inlet, Stealthy Repossession, Freshen the Air, Taming the Flames, The Pit, and the Church and the Fury. You could toss VON 6 in there too, if you wanna. Reclamation too, probably, and maybe a couple of the Shadow quests (I stopped running them so I don't know if they are still considered too hard now or not).

But then to be fair they'd have to lower the quest level for PoP. That'd make me sad, since it is the only reliable loot run left. So, just scratch the whole idea.

_

[Makdar]

Wow, so few good responses.

I'll repeat, the quest is NOT a level 11 quest. No way, no how. Very few, if any, quests in the game are scaled this badly.

She should not be able to take down 11, well equiped, level 14 characters rushing her in the time she does, or the quest level should be raised.

Admittedly, to the one or two posters that suggested some kind of dodging behind the rocks at the start. Maybe that does work and we might try that next time. Thank you.

[Cruzer]

Wow. Yet another post of someone higher level than a quest getting beat down repeatedly by it, and then coming on to complain (or even inform) that the quest level is inaccurate.

If you are a group of people doing a quest lower level than you, and you're wiping repeatedly... you're doing something wrong. Its not the quest. Its you.

[Cruzer]

I kinda wish they would just go ahead and raise the quest levels for Butcher's Path, Irestone Inlet, Stealthy Repossession, Freshen the Air, Taming the Flames, The Pit, and the Church and the Fury. You could toss VON 6 in there too, if you wanna. Reclamation too, probably, and maybe a couple of the Shadow quests (I stopped running them so I don't know if they are still considered too hard now or not).

But then to be fair they'd have to lower the quest level for PoP. That'd make me sad, since it is the only reliable loot run left. So, just scratch the whole idea.

_

I was looting Ghosts of Perdition last night in 5-8 minutes each for the Ethereal Bracers. Theres still plenty of loot run quests in the game.

[tihocan]

Have you tried bringing 6 L14 characters in the Bloody Crypt on normal and killing the vampire without finding his sarcophagus? If it turns out you can't beat him (and I really don't know if you can), does this mean the quest is not a proper L6 quest?