Official Shadow/Wall of Fire Feedback thread. - PLEASE KEEP ALL DISCUSSION HERE.

[miceelf88]

That's just great. Isn't there a better way aroudn this than one that makes all firespecked casters useless? as of now, you can't even burning hands or fireball in a completely non-exploiting way, let alone scorching ray.

yes, it's easy because right now, mobs mindless run into firewalls, but the whole rationale for the fact that things are harder than PnP (undead hd being out of whack so that turning is useless, monster hp being crazy, no monster sp or cooldowns) is to compensate for the problems with monster AI. So, rather than do something about the AI, we're just adding another power to the monsters.

[Aspenor]

This one and a couple of others. Maybe not attack but his tone of writing just come off bad.

IMHO that's about as polite a way as possible to say "please keep this thread on topic, this isn't a thread about firewall"

[Cupcake]

A metagame should not be built around an item that drops from an unpopular quest.

/signed.

[Yukiko]

In truth, phasing never really bothered me untill now.
There are just so many that do fade in the newer quests that its more of an issue. Its not like the 3 or 4 like there use to be.

But if magic AoE is not the answer, yes they need to stay in the physical world longer. At least long enough to slash at or get off a Fireball and or Cone of Cold.

[MrWizard]

Yep, guideline changes are difficult, but they make things challenging.

With all good things.....

Cloudkill and solid fog rocked for a long time, now they do not last long and everything has frredom of movement....

Firewall has been incredible for a lot of casters, now it does not last as long...and now more mobs are immune...

Time to take that wizzie and think about other spells and enhancements (acid is cool)...

Take some fighters along that carry ghost touch weapons, pref two handers, to take them out.

Shadows were never any fun anyway...wish we could stone them like the wheeps....

I just charm em and move on so there are no problems....charm keeps them away from me and everything else too...love it...until they nerf that.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

I hope the Devs realize that MT is rarely wrong.

The entire Litany of the Dead series has been a COMPLETE WASTE OF DEV
RESOURCES.

I've set foot in the orchard twice. One long day to grind for tapestries; and again this past weekend just to help some guildies out. I will not be going back.

The quests aren't fun. They are tedious beyond compare.

I hope the Devs also realize that I am rarely wrong.

[Dane_McArdy]

That's just great. Isn't there a better way aroudn this than one that makes all firespecked casters useless?

It makes firewall, in one quests against one set of mobs useless, it does not make firespec casters useless in the game.

[FlyinS]

Well done MT. Good post and I wholly agree.

[GrayOldDruid]

Not a PNP thing. But that is not my source of disagreement. Because DDO is not PNP and that doesn't matter to me.
Its the blanket immunities that I can no longer agree with. Specially because its a let down when I know that the developers are so much better than this than to just click off a check box for immunity to fire. How long before giants are immune, then the reaver, then what is next?

I have one character that will just have to NEVER go in there. He is a sorcerer and his main game is the flame. Making them just flat immune to fire basically makes him useless *in that quest*. Unless he wants to magic missile them to death.... lol.... or are they immune to that as well?

[Bogenbroom]

Very nice post (again) MT.

I think it breaks down as they have created a class of creatures on whom traditional tactics do not work. This is, of course, nice. But they have done so with a group of creatures who, because of their general type (undead) are highly resistant to most other types of attack.

My thinking is that they should (maybe they do) have a vision for how this type of creature is supposed to be combated. Maybe certain types of weapons should have effects on their ability to phase or their rate of phase. Maybe their should be (are?) spells that alter the environment to counteract/impede their phasing ability. Maybe their are certain spells that are insta-kill against this sort of creature? (Shouldn't light spells kill shadows?)

To be honest, I like the idea of creatures change the general combat dynamic, and one of the real beauties of Mod 5 was the mixing of creature types that require different tactics. However, MT is very right in pointing out that there is no real acceptable tactic for phasing undead. They are immune/resistant to many things without being given any sort of real weakness to target.

[MysticTheurge]

I hope the Devs realize that MT is rarely wrong.

...

I hope the Devs also realize that I am rarely wrong.

And two rarely wrongs almost always make a right.

[MysticTheurge]

Maybe their should be (are?) spells that alter the environment to counteract/impede their phasing ability. Maybe their are certain spells that are insta-kill against this sort of creature?

This might be an acceptable alternative.

If you implement "Incorporeal Nova" and ensure that it hits them even while they're "phased out" (since being in the ground shouldn't be a defense against this spell) it would help a lot.

There's another one too, the name of which I'm not remembering, that essentially forces them all into corporeality.

Adding those two spells would be of huge benefit and might negate a lot of the issues I've listed above.

[JelloMold]

Congrats on the baby. Your life as you know it is over! (for the better of course)

Cheers to the DDO comments as well. If you aren't having fun with certain quests...just don't do them. I wonder why that is so hard for some people.

Yep, your priorities are definitely going to change. Get ready for those quick (and sometimes) extended afks for the baby. As a stay at home dad for the past year, I can also attest to the fact that you can still find time to play (after everyone is asleep ).

[Issip]

OMG, a post that not only do I agree with, but everyone seems to agree!! And people in this forum sem to argue about whether your client should randomly crash or not - I'm not sure I've seen such agreement on any subject in the DDO forums ever!!

I agree whole-heartedly. I had posted a similar sentiment yesterday - basically fighting incoporal mobs with my fighter makes my wrist hurt (click click click click click hit! 6 dmg click click click click). It's not fun, and I generally don't even bother to swing at them.

Please don't make the devs test this content - they try fighting those incorporal mobs in VOL for a week and they'll all be at home with wrist braces on and orders from their doctors not to click a mouse button for at least 2 weeks, which would push the development schedule.

But please do note the overwhelming agreement form the player base on this one, and don't try to make us swing wildly in the air for hours.

[Cupcake]

Nice post, MT.

Sorry I don't have anything to add.

[Gabrion]

Mobs that go incorporal, need some tweaking. Yes, they are a pain to deal with because of the blinking and such. It needs to be toned down. More so since most of them can do ability drain, and negative levels, which is often worse then flat out damage.

Yes they are a problem and I'm glad you recognize this. Scorpions also fall into this category.

If people are nice, and ask, perhaps Turbine, who has often said they are commited to making a game that is fun for the players, will put some work into this. Keep in mind, that means time, and we aren't going to see that happen tomorrow.

Wraiths have existed since day 1 in this game, as have scorpions and their "tunneling" ability. They have caused problems since day 1 and these problems have been brought up on the forums over and over again - some in kind polite ways, some in other ways. If it just "takes time" to fix something like this, I don't see why a year and a half shouldn't be sufficient.

Ideally, some doors and mob leashes on the priest might be a better idea. Maybe. It's really hard to say, until you actually do it. Adding geometry to doors takes a while, and so does leashing.

Your extensive programming background is informing you here I assume?

We've all read how players would react if a DM pulled stunts in their game, though most of them are just outragouse.

If I was a DM and the players keep trying to use cheaty tactics or such to reduce the risk, and then got all ****y, I would be less likely to change my mind about a ruling.

You miss the point - DMs are in control in a game, not players. The issue isn't players cheesing each encounter, its that the DM "rule zeros" every encounter. Then when the players find ways to meet the new challenges (even if these are not the least bit cheesy), the DM uses his power to alter reality and completely negate them.

Anyone that has played paper has encountered these type of players. Nothings more fun then the player who tries to find a cheaty way of playing every other time it's their turn.

And again I point out, many PnPers have also encountered the control freak DM who can't stand the players "winning" and therefore uses mindless rule zero adjustments.

When I'm a DM, the player that presents a rational reason, rather then a tantrum, will either get thier way, or more often we reach a compromise.

Thats you. Other people are different. You've shown on these forums that you have particular tendencies that are tied to your personality. You are motivated by flowers, group hugs, and coombyya. Other people are (and should be in a market situation) motivated by things like profit margins. Some people are only motivated by harsh words and confrontation. We on the forums are simply hoping that turbine, being a profit driven company, would be somewhat interested in those profits. So far they don't seem to be, but who knows, maybe increasing the profit margins of running this game will eventually appeal to them.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Well, the constant phasing is a pain, but etheral bracers fix the incorparal thing. I am sorry many are upset over these changes. I myself am upset over the raid changes. But honestly it has to be a big change (like the raid one) to bug me. Fighting incorp, phasing undead doesnt really kill it for me

Ethereal Bracers does nothing to fix TARGETING a phasing mob. Melee can swing, swing, swing at thin air and wait for the mob to phase back in to get hit. Ranged and Casters do not have the unlimited resources to do so and can rarely target the creature before it phases out again.

[Rekker]

Does Glitterdust work on phased creatures ???

If not, making it work on phased creatures would allow you to target them inside the spell allowing you to cast cone of cold, fireball, etc.

Or make a higher level equivalent of that spell that does make them visible.

[MysticTheurge]

Does Glitterdust work on phased creatures ???

If not, making it work on phased creatures would allow you to target them inside the spell allowing you to cast cone of cold, fireball, etc.

No, it doesn't. They're not invisible they're "in the floor." Allegedly.

[Serdan]

There's another one too, the name of which I'm not remembering, that essentially forces them all into corporeality.

I believe you are thinking of corpse candle. It emitted a 5' radius of bright illumination and rendered incorporeal creatures corporeal, thus negating the miss chance.

Unless I'm wrong and you are thinking about another spell....