Official Shadow/Wall of Fire Feedback thread. - PLEASE KEEP ALL DISCUSSION HERE.

[DoctorWhofan]

Who says Ghosts of Perdition isn't popular. It's one of my favorite to run. I see Lfms up for it all the time and farming it is how I got my hands on the bracers. It comes down to risk vs reward. And no it doesn't revolve around it. You could have a ghost touch disruptor or a ghost touch greater undead bane. But if you feel that without firewall you are completely helpless against shadows I truly feel bad for you.

Let's change that. Let's NOT have an quest completion built around a rare drop from another quest. There, no hate implied.

[Perceval418]

As much as I would applaud this change - I don't think it has a chance at all of it being implemented.

Same. I think the cooldown timer on phasing is a good idea. Thats the balance, which is what should always be sought in a MMO. BALANCE!

If the notes had read that the Shadows in vol now took half damage from fire, and thier phase timers had been increased to a three second cool down, or something, i think people would have hardly batted an eye and accepted the increase in challenge.

But yeah i enjoy the rest of the game so im just going to pretend the Orchard doesnt exist, maybe do some loot runs in the orchard itself for plat, and wait for Mod 6...

[issiana]

Not a PNP thing. But that is not my source of disagreement. Because DDO is not PNP and that doesn't matter to me.
Its the blanket immunities that I can no longer agree with. Specially because its a let down when I know that the developers are so much better than this than to just click off a check box for immunity to fire. How long before giants are immune, then the reaver, then what is next?
How much longer and farther does this go?

have you run giant caves lately?

i took my sorc out there a week ago. some of the normal giants, about 50% are immune to fire atm. (not talking about the fire giants) i got a bit of a shock when i placed a fw and say many die but still many more just standing there. so i cast scorching ray and got "immune" flash up. i got a bit mad at that, stoned them, looted and left. I havent being back in yet.

Maybe i missed something and they have always being this way, i dunno, it was the first time i took a caster in there solo. I'm normally in there with a mellee.

[QuantumFX]

The melee solution for this ******** spaz cycle is even lamer than having to drop Wall of Fire all over the place.

1) Arm ghost touch weapons
2) Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick Rightclick
3) Wonder: Is it dead yet?

[Seneca_Windforge]

Definitely agree. Phasing needs to go.

Did they really make shadows immune to fire? If so, that deeply sucks.

[Nuckin]

adding doors wouldnt do nethin at all to that quest, i used to solo it with out pulling everythin to the center by runnin past the doors and firewallin in a group and usin other tactics. the fire immune thing was the only way to nerf the caster solo run in there. But is it just me? or did they not post the fire immune thing in the release notes? i read the notes but didnt see nethin about the fire immune just the increase in shadows, i might have passed it up but dunno. And it makes no sense as to y the shadows are immune to fire at all! making a shadow immune to fire is just wrong. And incorporal creatures cannot pass through doors. But yea i really hate the change, i havent ran ne of the other quests that have been changed due to decreased play time, but i absolutely hate this change and what ive heard about the others.

I mean come on take a place that everyone hates like the necrop, fill it wit undead, and when we find a way to run through the quests quicker they immediately nerf it. that would be like makin stuff in gh immune to elements or makin the last fights in quests like madstone or somethin only accesible once. I mean what did we do to deserve this horror?!?!?! lol

[DoctorWhofan]

adding doors wouldnt do nethin at all to that quest, i used to solo it with out pulling everythin to the center by runnin past the doors and firewallin in a group and usin other tactics. the fire immune thing was the only way to nerf the caster solo run in there. But is it just me? or did they not post the fire immune thing in the release notes? i read the notes but didnt see nethin about the fire immune just the increase in shadows, i might have passed it up but dunno. And it makes no sense as to y the shadows are immune to fire at all! making a shadow immune to fire is just wrong. And incorporal creatures cannot pass through doors. But yea i really hate the change, i havent ran ne of the other quests that have been changed due to decreased play time, but i absolutely hate this change and what ive heard about the others.

I mean come on take a place that everyone hates like the necrop, fill it wit undead, and when we find a way to run through the quests quicker they immediately nerf it. that would be like makin stuff in gh immune to elements or makin the last fights in quests like madstone or somethin only accesible once. I mean what did we do to deserve this horror?!?!?! lol

No, just said more numorous. On a related note: Is it true you cannot reenter the GHosts quest after the Doomsphere is triggered? THat wasn't in the release notes either. WHy was that? No trully, ifthey were going to make drastic changes to the game, why not let us know on the release notes?

[CSFurious]

i agree with your sarcastic example in an abstract way

however, this is not somebody's kitchen table at midnight on Friday night

i do not believe that Turbine can continue to **** off its playerbase like this, i.e., the DM can only go so far before there is no one left to DM

i think that this change may have been warranted maybe when new content was released

it is that famous "honey-salt" principle

there would be little complaint about the changes of yesterday, if they had been made after the level cap was raised & new "undead-free" content had been released

You: I'm going to lure them all into the Wall of Fire (which I can mysteriously stand in without taking damage).
DM: Uh.... they don't follow you?
You: Why not?
DM: Because they're not stupid.
You: But... they should. Don't they want to attack me?
DM: Not if they're just going to roast.
You: I don't get it. Well I'm just going to stand here in my Wall of Fire until they come die.
.... 20 minutes later ....
DM: Ok, they come and start attacking you, but they don't seem to be taking damage from the Wall of Fire.
You: **** this ****! I quit!

[penumbra]

actually Nuckin, i've seen wraithes pass through doors in Delera's. i've also seen enemy casters cast through doors. swiped signet was the one. sleep spamming and sleet storm.

[Kingfish]

...i've also seen enemy casters cast through doors. swiped signet was the one. sleep spamming and sleet storm.

Good call...however, thats cause there are little openings under the door...good part is, you can cast through them too. I do like that!

BUT, i've seen lightning cast through the gates in WW2(and others)...and we CAN'T cast through those gates, which suks...so your example stands .

[smodge13]

You: I'm going to lure them all into the Wall of Fire (which I can mysteriously stand in without taking damage).
DM: Uh.... they don't follow you?
You: Why not?
DM: Because they're not stupid.
You: But... they should. Don't they want to attack me?
DM: Not if they're just going to roast.
You: I don't get it. Well I'm just going to stand here in my Wall of Fire until they come die.
.... 20 minutes later ....
DM: Ok, they come and start attacking you, but they don't seem to be taking damage from the Wall of Fire.
You: **** this ****! I quit!

hate to do this but owel

You: ok im going to swing at the shadow with my ghost touch disruptor
DM: the shadow ducks into the floor so you cannot hit it
You: oh smart, okay, im going to ready an action to swing at it when it comes out
DM: the shadow comes out of the floor and attacks you.
You: okay i roll a 20 yay i hit
DM: no sorry, the shadow phased back into the floor to avoid your attack
You: but i readied an action
DM: sorry you didn't ready the action at the right time you needed to be 0.5 of a second earlier with the swing
You: **** this **** im quitting.

[Dane_McArdy]

i do not believe that Turbine can continue to **** off its playerbase like this, i.e., the DM can only go so far before their is no one left to DM

It sounds like people are ****ed.

They are ****ed that the simple, safe way to just get some chests and such has been made harder. That people now have to be more active in doing this quest then just stand in a spot, and wait.

Sorry that Turbine took the fastest fix, because you people demand Turbine pick up the pace in what they are doing.

Next time, Turbine, please shut down a quest, canvas the forums and players for suggestions, take the time to do those suggestions, and then reopen the quest. No matter how long it takes to do this.

[ccheath776]

What are you talking about?

I just went out into the orchard and krispy fried me a whole dozen to test this after reading your post.

You're talking about those guys that phase in and out, and when they die, they make a huge explosion, right?

If so, then yes, they burn just fine. You just have to wait for them to phase in. Often times this means standing still and blocking, but once they pop in, they have so few hitpoints they usually die instantly.

Am I missing something, here?

All the ones in the POP are. Can we check the other LOTD quests. It may not be in the orchard then.

Still doesn't matter. That check off to make another blanket immunity is enough for me. Its called uncreative design. They should have done alot more and instead they hit the easy button. Well sorry, your easy button is my off button.

[ccheath776]

You: I'm going to lure them all into the Wall of Fire (which I can mysteriously stand in without taking damage).
DM: Uh.... they don't follow you?
You: Why not?
DM: Because they're not stupid.
You: But... they should. Don't they want to attack me?
DM: Not if they're just going to roast.
You: I don't get it. Well I'm just going to stand here in my Wall of Fire until they come die.
.... 20 minutes later ....
DM: Ok, they come and start attacking you, but they don't seem to be taking damage from the Wall of Fire.
You: **** this ****! I quit!

No MT its not like that at all.
Its
DM - A bunch of mobs are standing in the hall way.
Yu - Ok I draw them in by shooting at me.
DM - OK they are now at you.
Yu - Good I cast wall of fire on them and burn them all.
DM - Uhhhh Actually they are immune to fire.
Yu - Since when?
Dm - Since now I cant have you killing mobs that way, deal with it.
Yu - I quit.

Thats how it is not the other way around. Plus its not a matter of realistic or not its a matter of my disagreement with the "fix". Lots more could have been done like in your example. Make it so the mobs DONT run into the firewall, problem fixed. This blanket immunity deal is just their way of getting around coming up with more creative designs. This disturbing trend of lets just make them immune is something I can't agree with anymore. If a company doesn't know that what they did was not desireable by the community then how will they try to go back and fix it. I am simply voicing my disapproval. nothing wrong with that.

[ccheath776]

have you run giant caves lately?

i took my sorc out there a week ago. some of the normal giants, about 50% are immune to fire atm. (not talking about the fire giants) i got a bit of a shock when i placed a fw and say many die but still many more just standing there. so i cast scorching ray and got "immune" flash up. i got a bit mad at that, stoned them, looted and left. I havent being back in yet.

Maybe i missed something and they have always being this way, i dunno, it was the first time i took a caster in there solo. I'm normally in there with a mellee.

Then I wont run giant caves either. By the way they cast protection from fire not immune completely Or at least I think.
Anyway, when does the line get drawn at some point and the player community says, "Sorry no more blanket immunities." Come up with someting else. They keep doing it because we keep ignoring it. Well I am not ignoring it anymore, At some point its just beyond my frustration level.

Its basically taking casters out of the equation completely. Where does the line get drawn?

[ccheath776]

It sounds like people are ****ed.

They are ****ed that the simple, safe way to just get some chests and such has been made harder. That people now have to be more active in doing this quest then just stand in a spot, and wait.

Sorry that Turbine took the fastest fix, because you people demand Turbine pick up the pace in what they are doing.

Next time, Turbine, please shut down a quest, canvas the forums and players for suggestions, take the time to do those suggestions, and then reopen the quest. No matter how long it takes to do this.

I agree with you dana. Dont make a quickfix like this. I would have been willing to put up with many other ways. Blanket immunity is not what I call a good move.

[MysticTheurge]

You: ok im going to swing at the shadow with my ghost touch disruptor
DM: the shadow ducks into the floor so you cannot hit it
You: oh smart, okay, im going to ready an action to swing at it when it comes out
DM: the shadow comes out of the floor and attacks you.
You: okay i roll a 20 yay i hit
DM: no sorry, the shadow phased back into the floor to avoid your attack
You: but i readied an action
DM: sorry you didn't ready the action at the right time you needed to be 0.5 of a second earlier with the swing
You: **** this **** im quitting.

Oh, I definitely agree here.

Thats how it is not the other way around.

It's not that simple. You can no more ensure that it's the one way than I can that it's the other.

The point is, there are some difference between the two mediums, but there are scenarios even in D&D where a DM has to get creative because his players are being jackasses. Which isn't to say everyone was, that's the nature of an MMO. Some people may have been going through all the rooms, fighting, using firewall to great effect. But enough people were pulling everything back to layered firewalls in the switch room that the DM decided to do something about it.

They only have so many options in their toolbag. They aren't a DM sitting across the table who can intelligently respond to anything people might throw at them. So they have to come up with a solution that works without constant attention.

Making it so mobs don't run into Walls of Fire doesn't fix the problem. As long as we can stand in walls of fire, that little bit of AI logic would be disastrous. You've suddenly given the players a free ride. Wall of Fire is the ultimate defensive spell, cast it on yourself and nothing even comes to attack you. How would that be good for the game?

I agree that this wasn't the most elegant solution possible to the problem. But it also didn't take a lot of Dev time. And you've got enough people complaining that the devs waste time on old stuff as is.

[Knightrose]

I understand the frustration, but don't completely agree.

I enjoy the fact that these kind of undead are more difficult because of their AI as opposed to how many hit points they have.

I'll give you an example.

Before they turned Minotaurs into puppies, all players, level 1 or level 14 paid attention to how a Minotaur was going to charge. Because getting hit meant bad bad damage. Now they might as well be large Kobolds. Their charge rarely hits and even when it does it inflicts pillow damage. I truly wish they'd change them back to how they were before.

I'm not a sadist. I just feel that having to work together is what makes DDO fun. At least for me. Accepting orders from a loud caster over voice is not fun. I don't pay to play my Barbarian as bait for a 19 WoF trap.

[Rekker]

I seem to recall a patch/update where they supposedly lowered the amount of phasing that was done due to the issues when Shadow Crypt series came out. Did this ever occur ???

The only way to do that series was with WoF. So they probably also increased the HP they have making it even harder to melee them and making WoF even more important.

[Prinstoni]

Who says Ghosts of Perdition isn't popular. It's one of my favorite to run. I see Lfms up for it all the time and farming it is how I got my hands on the bracers. It comes down to risk vs reward. And no it doesn't revolve around it. You could have a ghost touch disruptor or a ghost touch greater undead bane. But if you feel that without firewall you are completely helpless against shadows I truly feel bad for you.

I have both of those (a ghost touch disruptor or a ghost touch greater undead bane) without the E bracers, but if I could just get those bracers I could have a holy ghost touch disruptor...Now that is ubber.

I am sick of the devs smacking the NERF bat everytime they come out with new content. It is not fair to the people who haven't completed that stuff yet (which includes both casual and core gamers).

It is just BS that the devs are so concentrated on NERFing instead of working on new ways to challange us.

I have said this since MOD 3 when I joined the forums... STOP CHANGING EXISTING CONTENT AND CONCENTRATE ON NEW CONTENT. IT ****ES US OFF, AND THAT IS WHY MANY PEOPLE ARE LEAVING!!!