Bard/Quest Fixes Needed (Short Version)

[Zenako]

Yes they certainly can be. A well built battle Bard can out DPS and outlast many fighter builds. Battle Bards rock....

Speaking more about the mentality of things. A fighter can be wearing his Plate armor and just move up and out whomp things. No arcane failures, no spells to worry about, no songs, no non-proficiency penalties to avoid.

A newbie bard character, played in the same fashion has lower BAB, is using inferior damage weapons, is likely wearing more crappy armor, and will have fewer HP to work with.

With spells, twinkage and some skill, bards can kill butt with the best of them, if they choose to build that way, no question.

[EinarMal]

Speaking more about the mentality of things. A fighter can be wearing his Plate armor and just move up and out whomp things. No arcane failures, no spells to worry about, no songs, no non-proficiency penalties to avoid.

A newbie bard character, played in the same fashion has lower BAB, is using inferior damage weapons, is likely wearing more crappy armor, and will have fewer HP to work with.

With spells, twinkage and some skill, bards can kill butt with the best of them, if they choose to build that way, no question.

Maybe it really just depends, if you are strictly speaking about pure class Bards then at low levels that is mostly true. Dipping even one level of fighter (at level 2). Gets you the weapons you need and getting a usable AC at low levels is not that difficult, e.g. 20+ gets you through level 3 and below quests pretty well.

Like I said, I solo Bards all the time with no problem, I find them much easier than fighters actually since they can self heal and cure wands are cheap. Fascinate can also be a life saver and fighters have no such luck. Then again all my Bards are melee focused and have 16+ strength and decent hit points etc...

Even with pure class Drow Bards I have no trouble soloing with a melee focused build. Use a shield and rapier and you can get 20+ AC and decent damage with only cheap +2 equipment from the AH.

[daydrmrzzz]

I've never played a bard before, but usually start my chars with 1 lvl of rogue to get the max skill points. Figured bard couldn't be any worse than rogue, but made one to test it out. Made an elf with 12 str/dex, 10 con, 14 int/wis/cha. 1st lvl feat was iron will. Was able to solo all of the solo only quest without dying once. Then did the goodblade quests, sewer rescue and the low road on normal without dieing once. Did Missing ward on normal, died once (ghoul fever and ray of enfeeblemen took me to 0 str), re-entered and completed the quest. Tried matter of protection 3 times on normal, kept failing, tried it on solo and succeeded. I never used a spell or my fascinate ability once, never even needed a potion until missing ward and matter of protection. I purposely didn't level so I could remain at 1st level for all of these quests. Enhancements I took were elf melee damage and elf range damage. Equipment wise, i bought a heavy mace and longword right after finishing Euphonia's challenge. Bought a composite longbow and light shield soon as I had the money. Upgrading to chain shirt and heavy shield not long after that, and ended up with masterwork chain shirt and +1 heavy shield by the time I'd finished all the 1st lvl quest. So, I conlude bards aren't all that bad at fighting at 1st lvl, and the quests aren't broken or too hard. However, my preferred play style is solo and I've done the newbie quests so many times with so many characters, that they seem easy to me. Stealth and ranged attacks can be very useful if you know how to maximize their effectiveness. A new player could have more trouble with the quests though. espescially if they'd only played a fighter before and tried to zerg them.

[RichD]

My apologies if the tone of my first response offended you. Without knowing your character build or the tactics you were using I couldn't be more specific. I don't think you need to be twinked to get through the quest (my permadeath bards aren't twinked).

There have been a number of good suggestions in this thread (e.g., make sure you carry a shield, it will help a lot when you have to fight even if you never shield block).

The other thing I would point out is that it is possible to avoid being greased by jumping to the side/back of the defender as it breathes. It can be hard to get the timing of this right, but you are no worse off if you try it and fail than if you don't try it.

Also, use sneak to your advantage. If you sneak and let the mob come to you, you can often get in the first strike, and in solo mode that can make all the difference. This worked well for me with whats-his-name, just standing in front of the doors in sneak mode and let him run to you, swinging as he gets to you. You'll get a couple of swings in, and hopefully at least one hit before he attacks you.

[HorridForm]

Erm....while I agree that bards should be able to solo level-appropriate solo quests without much difficulty (inability to do so indicates a need to revise player tactics), they aren't one of the easiest to solo with at first level. Remember - first level bards get ONE bardsong. Not exactly "godly crowd control", and more effectively used as a fairly minor buff that will last most of the quest. They also suffer arcane spell failure if they equip a shield (anyone who has a mithril light shield at first level is a twink who has no business complaining that they can't solo), so suffer from poor AC (starter leather + no shield = AC 12+dex bonus, maybe AC 14-15; even in level 1 quests, that AC gets hit fairly often). Cure Light Wounds is the most sensible choice for a first level bard with no one passing down equipment (no endless supply of CLW wands), since there aren't any quests where things will be immune to their one & only spell (undead, of course, being immune to things like charm person & hypnotism), so they are often faced with using crummy starter weapons with an underwhelming strength bonus and healing themselves with limited spell points & possible spell failure...doable, certainly, but not always a breeze.

As soon as you land on stormreach and get out of the wavecrest hit up "survive the lowroad" you can run this quest without having to kill a single mob. Take the left at the fork, time the poison trap in the following room, open the door and run to the large open room. Use your CC to deal with the kobold on the left handside at the base of the stairwell (he's sleeping) then do the same for the righthand side. Once all for levers are pulled take a dive into the water and swim to the next room then run past the shaman until you can exit the tunnel. You can level like this in like 12 minutes.

I think you are just trying to get ahead of yourself by braving Kobold Isle at level 1.

[HumanJHawkins]

<CUT>it is possible to avoid being greased by jumping to the side/back of the defender as it breathes. <CUT>If you sneak and let the mob come to you, you can often get in the first strike, and in solo mode that can make all the difference.

Two more good suggestions. Thanks!

[Cirlandir]

4) Kobold Island is a stupid waste of time. Do Low Road instead.
K... That's why the thread title includes "Quest Fixes Needed". Any time you hear yourself saying "X quest or area sucks", that is a sign that something is wrong. I (now) know that I should have run something else if my goal was to level. But Kobold Island could be easily fixed by giving it 200XP for completion and putting a lvl 1 chest out there somewhere. This would turn it into a worthwhile place to go, and bring it in line with the other lvl 1 quests.

Maybe run it with a group? Kobold Island is yet another example of unneccessarily wasted development resources. No fun. No loot. Fix? Avoid. Better fix? Devs not waste their time on it in the first place.