Brilliant Turbine! (Compliment, not sarcasm)

[Waterboy]

Honestly, JJ, to a point Yes.

We're far, far more intelligent than the AI. There's no getting around this. So, to some degree setting up overwhelming ambushes and waiting for things to run into them is bordering on an exploit of the fact that the AI can't do anything about them.

I have read a lot of absured things on these forums but this is right up there at the top. Setting up an ambush is bordering on an exploit....it is so silly and absured I am not even going to say anything more about it.

[Warrax23]

I use Fireball and Cone of Cold a lot, and is more my primary spell against non shadow,wraith,ghost opponents. My cone of cold does more damage against living things then WoF.

However the point is this, The 4 quests out there since you have to run them multiple times to get sigil peices SHOULD be a little easier then say Madstone which you only have to run once to be Raid Ready.

A resistance to Fire damage isn't a bad idea because they still DO damage, I just sit there and have to watch now because I'm a FIRE/COLD mage. My disco balls sure don't do anything to them.... stone to flesh... fail...

SO I say pull yer brain out of the jar and think of a solution instead of a hot fix that makes people not want to actually DO a mission. They are supposed to ALL be fun... and for the DDO crown jewel it's pretty garbage since better loot GENERALLY still falls out of Giant hold.

[MysticTheurge]

Can't remember the last fireball I have seen a caster cast. I am sure it occurs, its just not truly the most efficient use of sps most of the time.

It doesn't help that they're really hard to see.

[Yaga_Nub]

I've noticed BB as a suggested replacement for WoF and I started thinking..... Isn't it really the same thing? An AoE spell that can be spammed down in the in room and you can place them so that a critter has to run through many of them?

So what's the difference? Why is one okay and one isn't?

[MysticTheurge]

So what's the difference? Why is one okay and one isn't?

You have to move across the boundary of a blade barrier to be hit by it. Thus, you can't really "Fight in a Blade Barrier." This usually adds up to meaning that it's most effective to just put down one blade barrier and kite around in it (when even that is effective), unlike Wall of Fire where you can throw down tons and fight in them.

More over, with regards to incorporeal creatures in particular, they can phase out on one side of the barrier and phase back in on the other, suffering no damage.

[Hafeal]

It doesn't help that they're really hard to see.

You raise a good point, fireballs exploding in the firewall don't really get much graphic love!

[Dane_McArdy]

You raise a good point, fireballs exploding in the firewall don't really get much graphic love!

Yeah, can you make the fire stand out from the fire please?

he he he.

[MysticTheurge]

Yeah, can you make the fire stand out from the fire please?

I know you're joking, but I wasn't. Where's the expanding sheet of flame that marks the edge of a fireball as it explodes?

There's a little comet of fire, and then, like, a *poof* of flame. The graphics for fireball are some of the most disappointing spell effects in the game, if you ask me. And given that it's such an iconic spell that really sucks.

[Aesop]

I know you're joking, but I wasn't. Where's the expanding sheet of flame that marks the edge of a fireball as it explodes?

There's a little comet of fire, and then, like, a *poof* of flame. The graphics for fireball are some of the most disappointing spell effects in the game, if you ask me. And given that it's such an iconic spell that really sucks.

Yeah I agree on that one... when you think Wizard you think of them Launching Fireballs that level battlefields ... not a small poof


Aesop

[Mad_Bombardier]

I think you are confused (or I am). The damage doesn't stack like you seem to imply. In my experience it works like this:

(numbers given purely for an easy example)

1x Firewall = 30 damage per tick
5x Firewall = 30 damage per tick x5

Casting firewalls doesn't give a single source damage of 150 damage (120 after 30 resists), it would give 30 damage 5 times (reduced to 0 each time).

Correct, but when your WoF does 150-250 dmg each to Undead (420-680 on a crit), even with Resist Fire 30, it's 120+ damage x5. Unless they invent Resist Fire 100, it barely even dents WoF damage.

[jjflanigan]

Correct, but when your WoF does 150-250 dmg each to Undead (420-680 on a crit), even with Resist Fire 30, it's 120+ damage x5. Unless they invent Resist Fire 100, it barely even dents WoF damage.

Yes, however that doesn't have any bearing on the quote that I was answering

With the current stackable quality of the spell, any kind of prot/resist can just as easily be overcome by just spamming a couple more.

If the damage didnt stack Id say your suggestion would work just fine.

It doesn't talk about the damage from an individual fire wall being too great, it talks about adding more firewalls to make it overpower the resists.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Yes, however that doesn't have any bearing on the quote that I was answering

It doesn't talk about the damage from an individual fire wall being too great, it talks about adding more firewalls to make it overpower the resists.

To be fair, he did mention overcoming Protection too. And more WoF brings down the ablative Fire Protection faster.

[Charmazal]

If what I read elsewhere is true, and the shadows are now immune to fire, then I'm going to have trouble calling this move brilliant, or even smart.

Blanket immunities are not a solution, they are a cop-out.

yes this is a cop out

[Yaga_Nub]

You have to move across the boundary of a blade barrier to be hit by it. Thus, you can't really "Fight in a Blade Barrier." This usually adds up to meaning that it's most effective to just put down one blade barrier and kite around in it (when even that is effective), unlike Wall of Fire where you can throw down tons and fight in them.

More over, with regards to incorporeal creatures in particular, they can phase out on one side of the barrier and phase back in on the other, suffering no damage.

That's the problem then, I never stay still in a fight so I have also figured that dropping BB was better anyway. Drop them in a pattern and then start running circles in the pattern. Seems to work as fast as firewall but maybe that's just because I'm running scared and time seems to fly by.

[MysticTheurge]

That's the problem then, I never stay still in a fight so I have also figured that dropping BB was better anyway. Drop them in a pattern and then start running circles in the pattern. Seems to work as fast as firewall but maybe that's just because I'm running scared and time seems to fly by.

It's the lack of synergy between blade barrier and other spells largely that makes the difference I think.

You can Dancing Sphere and Firewall and have yourself a nice little roast. But for BB to work, you've got to run around in circles and they inevitably get off a few hits.

[Lizardgrad89]

Sounds like clerics will have fun dropping divine light and cure mass spells on the shadows while the arcanes torch everything else... and the meatshields can get some use for their ghost-touch weapons.

So what, big deal.

I was thinking that bringing in a couple of clerics and throwing down some heavy blade barriers while the casters throw down acid fog and/or acid rain would do about the same thing, and probably about as quick, but even if you did, what would be the difference?

The devs want you to wade in and kill everything melee style and take 40 minutes to run the quest. If you find a way around that, they will just change it again. AND claim you are "exploiting the game".

I wonder, if any of this were real, and you were a wizard in a dark dungeon, wouldn't you use every means at your disposal to accomplish the mission and get out alive?

Hate to sneak up, get the info, create a battle plan, then have some demigod step in with a thunderous voice and say "you may not kill these creatures with a fire spell. You must kill them with naked steel!"

I'd want to tell the demigod to mind his own darn business.

Want to tell the Dev's the same thing.

[Lizardgrad89]

What?

You really want me to go on with other things? I kind of thought I beat it into the ground with those first six posts. By the way, that one about Von 3..yea, that is done still. You don't fight the earth elementals, you just burn the marut the moment he comes out.

PoP? Like the guy said, you don't fight there, either. So it isn't melee centered at all. A firewall after the room started, everything dead. A blade barrier, everything dead.

I'm just pointing out that your 'brilliant puzzle solution' isn't really brilliant at all, it done everywhere, in every quest. I've seen casters cast firewall on fire basec creatures (I kid you not) because they are so used to hitting that macroed button, and watch everything die.

Nerf the **** out of Firewall. Well, I shouldn't say it that strongly...just nerf it enough so it isn't the only spell in the game (besides instant kill spells, nothing will ever beat those.)

I'll say it again..you aren't solving anything creatively. You are putting down a firewall, and burning everything in sight.

For PoP before fix: You are putting down cloudkill through a wall of force A wall which even Ethereal creatures can't even pass, let alone gas, and killing things inside. That's not creative, that exploiting something that's not possible in any terms. I didn't know Tear gas floats through a solid brick wall in real life.

1. I am posting about more than firewalls. I am posting about the developer attitude that if you don't run a quest the way the want you to, it's considered an "exploit", and they will change the quest to try to force you to do things the way they want them done, and WILL continue to make changes until they have countered every creative way to finish the quest that isn't the way they want.

2. Never made mention of VON 3. VON 6, Velah, is the one that has been changed so many times and will continue to be changed, until the Devs find a way to force the party to split into three groups and fight battles at all bases simultaneously while trying to take down the pillars at the same time, similar to the battle with fire and ice in TS. That's obviously what they want, and anything else is an "exploit".

3. POP before fix: ACTUALLY, before the first fix, you went into a room, laid cloudkill down, then left and pulled the lever. Then the devs made all spells drop when the wall went up. Where's the logic there? Heck, where's the logic that the undead archers in Stormcleave can now hit you from a long distance without being able to see you. Even William Tell couldn't do that, yet mindless undead can.

As for your point about tear gas and solid walls, well, maybe MAGIC tear gas does go through walls. Maybe the spell travels the etheral plane (passing through barriers) until it intersects with the point desired on our plane and then bursts through.

I can't for the life of me imagine why you would try to use REAL WORLD LOGIC in a fantasy setting.

Maybe you should switch over to an RPG like WWII Online, where the application of real world physics is actually a valid argument.