the next level of enhancements

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Deepwood Snipers seem to largely focus on increasing the critical properties of their arrows, making them Keen and improving their critical multipliers. They also have abilities that allow them to Aim (adding bonuses to hit), use poison and reduce their target's concealment.

I don't remember for sure, but isn't the big ability of the deepwood sniper increased range increments? Not that applies in DDO...

These should probably be variants on the Eldeen Ranger's Sect Abilities.

That would be cool, good call MT.

[MysticTheurge]

I don't remember for sure, but isn't the big ability of the deepwood sniper increased range increments? Not that applies in DDO...

Yeah, they get that too. I didn't include it for it's inapplicability.

[Cannon]

It would be fun if Order of the Bow initiate was added (however, too many words to fit those ***) rather have something like that then the arcane archer but that is just my personal feeling

and Tempest just sounds like fun!

(For those without the stack of reference books, here is a site that has a bunch of the prestige classes.)

http://nwnprc.netgamers.co.uk/manual/index.html (but it does not have deepwood sniper)

Does anyone have a link to deepwood sniper that I could look at?

Cannon

[MysticTheurge]

Does anyone have a link to deepwood sniper that I could look at?

It's not open game content, so you can't really post it legally.

But you may be able to use Amazon's search inside feature for the book.

[BlameCandida]

(For those without the stack of reference books, here is a site that has a bunch of the prestige classes.)

http://nwnprc.netgamers.co.uk/manual/index.html

Wow. That's a lot of prestige classes. I really hope WotC dumps PrC's for 4th edition. I hope we go back to kits and talent trees as the route for further customization of characters. Barbarians as just a subset of fighters, "ninjas" as a kit for rogues, druids as clerics that took Earth and Stability domains. That would make my day.

Okay, so now for my on-topic issue: if these PrC's are implemented as enhancements, does that imply that we won't be getting PrC's in the game in their normal fashion? So if a few mods down the line (after we get monks, druids, crafting, and 2-handed piercing weapons), the devs decide to put in the PrCs, say, Mystic Theurge and Dwarven Defender. Do they just get implemented the same way as enhancements, or do we get a new system that incorporates them the "normal" way? And if we get a new system, do these rangers get those enhancement points refunded?

I like the idea of rangers getting specialization through enhancements, but if it is at the expense of being able to implement PrC's "correctly" later on, I would rather this not happen yet.

[MysticTheurge]

I really hope WotC dumps PrC's for 4th edition.

Not according to the ENWorld 4th edition page:

Prestige classes stay.

Will there be prestige classes? "There will be functionality equivalent to that."

[Symar-FangofLloth]

OotBI would be fairly represented by merely adding the feat Zen Archery, which lets you use Wisdom in place of Dex on ranged attack rolls. With Force of Personality and Insightful Reflexes being added, it's possible we'll see this feat as well.

[BlameCandida]

Prestige classes will still exist, but different. They want to make them easier to integrate. They also don't want you to have to stop being your core class to enter a prestige class- you could be a frenzied berserker but you'd still advance as a barbarian.

That doesn't sound too bad. It's still not how I would do it, but then again I'm not the only person playing, and I know a lot of people are attached to their PrCs. I guess this is similar to what Turbine is doing if those asterisks are what you say they are. Rangers still advance as rangers, but get PrC talents as enhancements. That gets my blessing. I don't have all the splatbooks, so is there any precedent for the three bard specs (Spellsinger, Warchanter, Virtuoso)?

To engage in a little conspiracy theory here, perhaps Turbine is testing out some ideas for 4th edition in the way they implement PrCs (and monks, druids, and crafting). Well its probably too late for 4th edition... maybe for 4.5th edition.

[MysticTheurge]

so is there any precedent for the three bard specs (Spellsinger, Warchanter, Virtuoso)?

Yeah, those are PrCs too.

[BlameCandida]

Yeah, those are PrCs too.

Oh. Well now I feel dumb. That's what I get for taking a break for a few months. I guess I'm also confused. Why are people still asking for PrCs if we know they are already being implemented through the enhancement system?

Maybe we can get domains and school specializations through the enhancement system too? That's how faiths are working, so hopefully they can exapt the system to handle domains too.

[honkuimushi]

Oh. Well now I feel dumb. That's what I get for taking a break for a few months. I guess I'm also confused. Why are people still asking for PrCs if we know they are already being implemented through the enhancement system?

Maybe we can get domains and school specializations through the enhancement system too? That's how faiths are working, so hopefully they can exapt the system to handle domains too.

I just re-upped after a few months dealing with real life issues and am slowly getting back into the swing of things so I'm kind of in the same boat.

One of the reasons I want PrCs is beacause it would be really hard to duplicate some PrCs with enhancements. The PrCs that combine two or more classes are especially difficult. Any class that gives partial casting would also be very difficult to do. You also have classes that grant a couple of special abilities at the cost of BAB, hit die, skill points or caster levels. Once you start to change those, you really need to design a new class. The enhancement system is still multiclass unfriendly, so what do we do about PrCs that require or are best entered by multiclass characters?

Try building a Gish, a Mystic Theurge, an Invisible Blade or an Arcane Trickster. They are nearly impossible to recreate using enhancements. While doing something like Archmage is possible, unless you start changing some of the basics of the class, you really risk making something that is completely unbalanced or a mockery of the original PrC.

[Griphon]

So if we go with the idea that the Dev hints where 'Arcane Archer' 'Deepwood Sniper' and 'Tempest', how do we guess these will actually be implemented?

Arcane Archer - Had to be Elf or Half Elf... You also had to have a certain lvl of Arcane magic Prowess. I don't see them actually putting a racial restriction on it, or even the arcane casting requirement.
Possible benefit of the enhancement: Reduction in SP costs? A natural increase of say +2 in the Enchantment of your Bow/Arrows? A lvl 18 enhancement of a clickie to allow you to -always hit- for 30 seconds? (Oooh. Imagine hitting Multi, THEN this one.)

Deepwood Sniper - I can't remember to much about this one off the top of my head for requirements. (And I'm at work and can't access most things related to 'games'... Websense is the Devil.)

Possible Benefits of Enhancement: Increase in Crit Multiplier. Increase in Crit Range that would stack with Keen/or Improved Crit Multiplier. I was gunna suggest an inherent increase in shot speed.. But then I realized that they're Snipers.. not Deepwood Machine Gunners.

Tempest - Again can't remember much in the way of requirements.

Possible Benefits of Enhancement: Increased number of TWF attacks. Increased AC modifier while using TWF.

Anybody else have any thoughts?

[MysticTheurge]

Why are people still asking for PrCs if we know they are already being implemented through the enhancement system?

Because it's a largely unsatisfying alternative to real PrCs.

I mean, they're neat enhancements, but they're not Prestige Classes.

[Mad_Bombardier]

I also expect to have those asterisks decoded by the time I look at the boards tomorrow morning.

Where's Wulf_Ratbane when you need him?!?

...

Apparently, Wulf was beaten to the punch by GramercyRiff and MT.

I'll take a stab at two of these. The second is Deepwood Sniper and the third is Tempest. The first I would have think about more.

The first is arcane archer.

[Cannon]

In regards to the Deepwood Sniper (thank you for the idea of looking it up on Amazon MT) how do you think
Conceleament reduction would be implemented in DDO? Perhaps the ability to negate blur or a percentage of Displacement (Kind of like a mini true-seeing on?)

Also I am not sure how giving rangers the ability to make their bows all keen with a x5 crit multiplier would work out. Very very fun but wow.

Cannon

[Eladrin]

Arcane Archer, Deepwood Sniper, and Tempest are indeed the currently planned Ranger enhancements.

Griphon's correct - there won't be a racial restriction on Arcane Archer, but it's likely that Elves will have a racial enhancement among the "...and one of the following..." prerequisites.

[Spectralist]

Arcane Archer, Deepwood Sniper, and Tempest are indeed the currently planned Ranger enhancements.

Griphon's correct - there won't be a racial restriction on Arcane Archer, but it's likely that Elves will have a racial enhancement among the "...and one of the following..." prerequisites.

Awesome, i always loved the idea of arcane archer, but i dont much like elves. Can't wait to see where it goes, might actually make my ranger pick up a bow for a change.

Now if only we see, in some manner of implementation, the duelist someday. Although which class it would be appended too is hard to say.

[Urguloth]

Boy oh boy, that looks great so far! Only thing I would have a worry about, is since it would be set as enhancements, would taking a first level of wiz or sorc be required for them? And for the special attacks for the Arcane Archer would seem difficult to apply, especially with cooldowns (1 arrow of death at a given time, and lasting a year? Hail Of Arrows?). Hope it doesn't work like manyshot.. or perhaps applying an alternative enhancement application for lowering the cooldown on Manyshot in it's place?

On the other hand, I hope that there would be an overhaul on the whole system and applying actual classes to the PrCs rather than going through enhancements, to allow a "levelling" feel to them.

[MysticTheurge]

Boy oh boy, that looks great so far! Only thing I would have a worry about, is since it would be set as enhancements, would taking a first level of wiz or sorc be required for them?

I'm going to guess that "Magical Training" is on the list of "one of the following..." prerequisites.

[Borror0]

I'm going to guess that "Magical Training" is on the list of "one of the following..." prerequisites.

What if you've taken bard?