Please quit ignoring the Rogue class

[Mad_Bombardier]

Or a cleric.

Dude, what's with the Cleric hate today? Don't make me sick Darkschneider on you.

[MysticTheurge]

Dude, what's with the Cleric hate today? Don't make me sick Darkschneider on you.

Oh come on. It's just fun when everyone starts being all "XXX sucks. Why would you need XXX!?!?" to throw out the one class that every acts like it's absolutely 100% necessary as being equally "worthless."

Because you know, they are. In that no one's really worthless.

[Vinos]

What else do you want? This is a combat game. Thats basically all D&D ever offered-combat, role-playing and strategy. DDO only offers two of these, roleplaying will never be big in MMOs. They have imho given rogues(really any class at all) the ability to be affective in combat if they build the character accordingly.

The game should not have glaring reasons to stay pure-class any more than they do to go MC. Im afraid kinda what they will do at level 20, as I imagine there will be a lot cries for "why did I bother staying PC for all this time"? If the enhancements and class feats arent enough, then I would ask the same question.

When I play my rog10/ftr3/barb1 I could care less if ppl want to run through traps, I only do them for xp bonus if im running with non-capped characters. Why? because I can self buff my str to 32 if needed, sneak around the mob and kill casters in seconds flat. I sacrificed some abilities for others but weighed the pros and cons and am happy with the character. Dont get me wrong I can do traps but Im just as inclined to run around them if everyone else does.

I kinda like it this way. Building characters to do whatever you want them to.

I don't want anything. Rogues aren't my style but I am curious as to what the PC rogues or paladins out there are expecting.

[Cowdenicus]

Or a cleric.

I'm watching you now.

[AEschyl]

The only thing more useless than a pally or a ranger is a pally/ranger.

lol!

i cant wait to add 1 or a few levels of monk to my build

[SaberMonkey]

Yeah - I think rogues definitely have a place. Paladins and Rangers, now those are useless classes.

Are you ignorant or just trying to stir the pot?

[Hvymetal]

a) People need to get over their fear of multiclassing. You can build your character however you choose. Having a few levels in one class and a few levels in another class doesn't make them any more or less those classes than you with your 14 levels in a class. You both made valid character creation choices and should be happy with what you did.

b) People aren't nearly as selective, exclusive (i.e. *****y) as you'd think from coming to these boards. I've never ever seen anyone go "Oh, no don't invite him, we don't need a full rogue, find someone with only 2 levels of rogue instead." or anything even remotely similar to that. Most of the time, people just get invited to groups. Sure, to a degree, people tend to feel like they have to have a healer and a tank, but that's generally about it.

c) Rogues do way more than disarm traps and open locks. So stop looking to those two things to make your feel like you have a valid and useful character. So long as you think those are the only two things you bring to the party you'll always be disappointed. Quests should not be designed to require someone to disarm traps and/or open locks. Just like they shouldn't be designed to require any other specific classes. Adding optional chests behind traps and/or locks is the best thing the devs can do on this level to encourage the inclusion of rogues.

d) All of the above said, Rogues sure could use a few specific changes to the game.

1. A way to sneak attack undead and/or constructs. This could be a feat, an enhancement or a magic weapon; it doesn't really matter much.
2. More skills. And more (powerful) uses for existing skills.
3. The ability to take any bonus feat in place of their 10th-level+ special abilities.
4. Real prestige classes.

Ok MT I play 4 Rogues and I pretty much agree here, I really do not feel that a Rogue should be "required" but it is nice to have little bones thrown our way like access to optionals and chests.....

[Cowdenicus]

lol!

i cant wait to add 1 or a few levels of monk to my build

At least you understood I was just ribbing you.

[Cowdenicus]

Are you ignorant or just trying to stir the pot?

My guess would be stirring the pot, you know like all the cleric love being felt here.

[Cowdenicus]

Ok MT I play 4 Rogues and I pretty much agree here, I really do not feel that a Rogue should be "required" but it is nice to have little bones thrown our way like access to optionals and chests.....

Agreed, but it shouldn't be just for rogues, why have i never used my heal skill on an NPC? Not just for clerics though, there are many other classes/skills that should be used for optionals as opposed to hack/grind fest.

[AEschyl]

At least you understood I was just ribbing you.

well you'd better've been.. cuz otherwise you would've been the one looking foolish

[MysticTheurge]

My guess would be stirring the pot, you know like all the cleric love being felt here.

I only stir pots that call kettles black.

[Aspenor]

Here's a novel idea, as well.....

The devs create the dungeons in the manner they see fit. It is up to the player to make his character viable in a dungeon, not up to the dungeon to make his character viable. A smart rogue can easily find a role to take in all raids. For the abbot, rogues have UMD....heal scrolls, anybody? Backup healer? My friend Rameses has run his rogue as the primary healer for Titan and Reaver raids. Rogues can do a lot more than traps and locks.

[Hvymetal]

Agreed, but it shouldn't be just for rogues, why have i never used my heal skill on an NPC? Not just for clerics though, there are many other classes/skills that should be used for optionals as opposed to hack/grind fest.

Agreed I would like to see skills get a big boost in the way that they are implimented, however I unfortunatly do not see that going over very well with a majority of the player base that want to zerg kill or skip as much as possible and grab a chest or two

[Cowdenicus]

Here's a novel idea, as well.....

The devs create the dungeons in the manner they see fit. It is up to the player to make his character viable in a dungeon, not up to the dungeon to make his character viable. A smart rogue can easily find a role to take in all raids. For the abbot, rogues have UMD....heal scrolls, anybody? Backup healer? My friend Rameses has run his rogue as the primary healer for Titan and Reaver raids. Rogues can do a lot more than traps and locks.

They can?

[MysticTheurge]

unfortunatly do not see that going over very well with a majority of the player base that want to zerg kill or skip as much as possible and grab a chest or two

Well the answer is simple. Offer more chests for valid uses of skills and/or alternative abilities. Offer short cuts for the same thing. Or offer alternative methods to overcome the same problem. I think PotP does this marvelously well. Pick the lock, diplomacy/bluff/intimidate the key away from them, or kill them and take it.

[llevenbaxx]

Here's a novel idea, as well.....

The devs create the dungeons in the manner they see fit. It is up to the player to make his character viable in a dungeon, not up to the dungeon to make his character viable. A smart rogue can easily find a role to take in all raids. For the abbot, rogues have UMD....heal scrolls, anybody? Backup healer? My friend Rameses has run his rogue as the primary healer for Titan and Reaver raids. Rogues can do a lot more than traps and locks.

big QFT

Lets leave it up to the player to justify his build, not the dungeon. Nice.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Oh come on. It's just fun when everyone starts being all "XXX sucks. Why would you need XXX!?!?" to throw out the one class that every acts like it's absolutely 100% necessary as being equally "worthless."

Because you know, they are. In that no one's really worthless.

MT, unfortunately when you were en hiatus, you missed several REAL threads spouting the Cleric hate. They insisted that Clerics were for n00bs and kiddies. I'm all about arguing for self-awareness and self-sufficiency. But man, you missed some crazy times.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

No class is usless when well played.

/qft

[Aspenor]

MT, unfortunately when you were en hiatus, you missed several REAL threads spouting the Cleric hate. They insisted that Clerics were for n00bs and kiddies. I'm all about arguing for self-awareness and self-sufficiency. But man, you missed some crazy times.

Dude I bet some of those posts were me Gotta take that tongue-in-cheek.