Please quit ignoring the Rogue class

[Tavian]

You started with Mod three, then proceeded to four and now five with screwing the Rogue class out of participating in the three new raids. You make the preraids and raids so that a Rogue is never needed. I love playing my Rogue. It is my main character, but I have to constantly fight to be included in any preraids or raids. The Dragon and Titan were nice because the class was needed. Please, please, please quit ignoring this class when making the preraids and raids. At this rate the only way I will get to see the Abbot raid is when I can solo it.

[Crabo]

You started with Mod three, then proceeded to four and now five with screwing the Rogue class out of participating in the three new raids. You make the preraids and raids so that a Rogue is never needed. I love playing my Rogue. It is my main character, but I have to constantly fight to be included in any preraids or raids. The Dragon and Titan were nice because the class was needed. Please, please, please quit ignoring this class when making the preraids and raids. At this rate the only way I will get to see the Abbot raid is when I can solo it.

Yes i agree here. Take some of the goodness from the slasher trap in von5 and spread it around.

[borgec]

...and why would you put traps in the pre-raid that cannot be disarmed?

[Borror0]

...and why would you put traps in the pre-raid that cannot be disarmed?

It can, just pull the lever at the end.

[JelloMold]

I would have looked at this earlier but I've been ignoring the please don't ignore the rogue threads.

...um, I agree

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

With respect, I would disagree with the OP.

Out of the four sigil quests in the Orchard, two of them require a rogue to (effectively) get the shield chest (one is disarming the traps in Fleshmaker, and the other is opening the locked door in Vol).

In addition - the Cursed Crypt has an optional chest that requires a rogue to reach, and one of the new Tomb quests has several traps that, admittedly can be bypassed, but really benefit from having a rogue.

I would say that, on average, compared with other mods - mod5 has been pretty generous to rogues. What the devs are doing is making it so you can still complete a quest without a rogue, but by having one in your group, you stand to benefit considerably.

Garth

[ethsar46]

I would have to say that the issue isnt with traps etc.

Its the fact that most of the rogues dmg is negated in Mod 5 due to undead being sneak attack/crit immune.

Its probly worse for pure rogues however, but i dont see many of them around these days.

My recommendation is to do guild/friend group runs. They should take you as long as they have room.

I almost never PUG anymore, just too many headaches most of the time.

It would also be good to note that the Main Abbot raid doesnt really "need" any melee classes, you could complete it with just clerics and casters no problem.

[The_Hoff]

With respect, I would disagree with the OP.

Out of the four sigil quests in the Orchard, two of them require a rogue to (effectively) get the shield chest (one is disarming the traps in Fleshmaker, and the other is opening the locked door in Vol).

In addition - the Cursed Crypt has an optional chest that requires a rogue to reach, and one of the new Tomb quests has several traps that, admittedly can be bypassed, but really benefit from having a rogue.

I would say that, on average, compared with other mods - mod5 has been pretty generous to rogues. What the devs are doing is making it so you can still complete a quest without a rogue, but by having one in your group, you stand to benefit considerably.

Garth

Yeah - I think rogues definitely have a place. Paladins and Rangers, now those are useless classes.

[Memnir]

No class is usless when well played.

[Crabo]

Yeah - I think rogues definitely have a place. Paladins and Rangers, now those are useless classes.

Really depends who plays them. I have seen both rangers and paladins that are awesome. I think the reason you see poor ones is because it is alot easier to build a bad pally or ranger than it is to build a bad fighter or barb.
Fighters and barbs dont have as many stats to worry about, max str, give solid con and maybe a little dex and you are good to roll. Throwing wis into the equation (for pally or ranger) means needing to know exactly where you are going with your build right from the get go. there is really no room for error.

But hey, buff rangers, we are nearly gods already....we may as well be recognized as one.

[Snike]

With respect, I would disagree with the OP.

Out of the four sigil quests in the Orchard, two of them require a rogue to (effectively) get the shield chest (one is disarming the traps in Fleshmaker, and the other is opening the locked door in Vol).

In addition - the Cursed Crypt has an optional chest that requires a rogue to reach, and one of the new Tomb quests has several traps that, admittedly can be bypassed, but really benefit from having a rogue.

Garth

Shield chest is optional, just like a rogue is optional on doing any of the required stuff.

Making "Trapsmithing" optional is the point some people are tring to make. I understand the concern that people want to be able to complete objectives without a rogue, but you don't hear such ideals about needing to complete objectives without DPS, Tanking, or Healing....

Yes, I do believe there should be a way to finish objectives without a trapsmith. But I think that way should not just be harder but take longer. Blazing through traps is faster in DDO, in PnP it would be death or take days longer for rest.

If DDO could find a way to make trapsmithing a viable way to make running a quest FASTER, like DPS and Healing does... many rogues would be happy.

[MysticTheurge]

No class is usless when well played.

Except Clerics.

[Aesop]

No class is usless when well played.

but regardless the perception of the classes is somewhat skewed.

Rogues can do it all. A well built rogue can do it better and well played can do it best.

Rangers are in the same boat. They are a Can Do class and they get the shaft ... often. But its not the game itself or the Devs (though the Ranger enhancments are a little weak IMO)... its the players.


Aesop

[Aesop]

Except Clerics.

Clerics aren't useless...

Did you misread?

Aesop

[Cowdenicus]

Except Clerics.

I sense some kill count envy.

I happen to enjoy playing my cleric though in all honesty the moment they allow me to make a Mystic Theurge is the day i retire both of my clerics.

[MysticTheurge]

Clerics aren't useless...

Did you misread?

Nah. I was just feeling contrary.

[Vinos]

With respect, I would disagree with the OP.

Out of the four sigil quests in the Orchard, two of them require a rogue to (effectively) get the shield chest (one is disarming the traps in Fleshmaker, and the other is opening the locked door in Vol).

Actually anyone with a level or 2 of rouge can pick that lock and the elec trap can be dealt with by other means.

In addition - the Cursed Crypt has an optional chest that requires a rogue to reach, and one of the new Tomb quests has several traps that, admittedly can be bypassed, but really benefit from having a rogue.

That chest is hardly a premium chest that most people could care less about skipping

I would say that, on average, compared with other mods - mod5 has been pretty generous to rogues. What the devs are doing is making it so you can still complete a quest without a rogue, but by having one in your group, you stand to benefit considerably.

You can say that for any class. If anything MOD 5 is generous to casters.

Garth

Rogues need love but I don't know what you can give them that will make any difference. Having 2 levels of rogue is still about as good as having 14 levels of rogue.

[Raithe]

I think the reason you see poor ones is because it is alot easier to build a bad pally or ranger than it is to build a bad fighter or barb.

No offense, but I find this statement really funny.

I must have really bad luck with grouping, both in guild and out, because I have run with more useless fighters and barbarians than adequate ones.

It is quite difficult to make a barbarian or a fighter worth anything for the end game. Their saves are poor, they can't do anything that doesn't require getting within melee range, and they can't buff themselves.

That's why I say why not take a rogue, you are just as likely to get a worthless melee if you don't.

[sigtrent]

Rogues need love but I don't know what you can give them that will make any difference. Having 2 levels of rogue is still about as good as having 14 levels of rogue.

Nonsense!

Look, traps and locks are quest elements but not required. There really are no quests that require any class, and that is on purpose. Class is an arbitrary designation in DDO to a large extent. Any class in DDO can do DPS, any class can specilize in defense, any class can heal in some way shape or form. Only one class can do traps.

My rogue is often a combat monster, but he has limitations just like any other character. People don't generaly look for rogues because they don't specilize in combat but anyone avoiding them making a mistake.

Roges have gotten all kinds of goodies in the enhancement realm and there are many good rogue items in game. Nothing wrong with rogues. It would suck if we couldn't run X quest without a rogue when we can run any quest in DDO without X class.

[Cowdenicus]

Skills need more use in quests in general, not just rogue skills.