Borror Z'rro - Dwarven Defender

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I'm currently a kensei rather than a Stalwart Defender; I think that says a lot about the state of tanks at end game.

Wow thank you for shedding light on this build. Its followed by many. Yea, my tank enjoys the extra ac that stalwart provides but to be honest it goes on for boss fights, period. If your tank isnt an end boss tank, Stalwart is USEless.

[Borror0]

Wow thank you for shedding light on this build. Its followed by many. Yea, my tank enjoys the extra ac that stalwart provides but to be honest it goes on for boss fights, period. If your tank isnt an end boss tank, Stalwart is USEless.

Well, it's not like if I can't tank with 3 less AC in the rare situations where I do feel the need to tank.

[Auran82]

I have to admit the game is very quickly moving towards tanking being a combo of lots of hitpoints and holding aggro with DPS with AC and intimidate dropping by the wayside again.

Still works quite nicely in VoD though, as well as hound.

[Gnorbert]

Bor,

If you were going to build a new tank today... how would you do it?

Just curious.

[Borror0]

Bor,

If you were going to build a new tank today... how would you do it?

I would use the same starting stats, go Kensai and stay pure.

The feat selection would be something like this:
1. Toughness, Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
2. Dodge
3. Iron Will
4. Combat Expertise
6. Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons, Force of Personality
8. Improved Critical : Slashing Weapons
9. Skill Focus: Intimidate
10. Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
12. Power Attack, Two Weapon Fighting
14. Improved Two Weapon Fighting
15. Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
16. Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
20. Quickdraw

[Gnorbert]

Interesting.

mucking about in the char planner I had the following...


Strength 16
Dexterity 14
Constitution 16
Intelligence 14
Wisdom 8
Charisma 10

Level 1 Toughness, Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Level 2 Dodge
Level 3 Bullheaded
Level 4 Combat Expertise
Level 6 Skill Focus: Intimidate, Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Level 8 Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Level 9 Iron Will
Level 10 Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Level 12 Power Attack, Two Handed Fighting
Level 14 Improved Two Handed Fighting
Level 15 Shield Mastery
Level 16 Greater Two Handed Fighting
Level 18 Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons, Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Level 20 Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Maxed Intimidate, Jump, Balance, UMD and 2 points in tumble

Now, once I have good gear I can see that FoP gets me more than Bullheaded and would probably swap it. Also I was playing with Stalwart defender on the enhancements. For my own tastes I wanted to go with Two Handed fighting and my stat allocation allows everything I want to do without any tomes. However, if I want to switch up his style later then I'm only a +3 tome away from two weapon fighting.

Aside from flavor differences it should be functional.

Don't want to hijack your build thread, just wanted to get your input.

Oh, just noticed I'd need to get to 13 Cha for FoP... hmm...

[Borror0]

Oh, just noticed I'd need to get to 13 Cha for FoP... hmm...

Drop Con to 14 and use a +1 Cha tome.

Don't worry about derailing this thread. It's been derailed quite a few times and still survived.

[Gnorbert]

I suppose I'll have to... I was really hoping to capitalize on that dwarven constitution but I suppose it is simply 20 HP and -1 Fort save in order to gain +4-5 will save, +1-2 intimidate and +1-2 UMD depending on +1 or +2 tome.

So what's the reasoning for Kensai over Defender?

[Borror0]

So what's the reasoning for Kensai over Defender?

I don't find myself tanking often enough to warrant it.

[Gnorbert]

I don't find myself tanking often enough to warrant it.

Is that because other classes are preferred as tanks? Or is it a matter of not many tanks really needed at all?

[Borror0]

Is that because other classes are preferred as tanks? Or is it a matter of not many tanks really needed at all?

Very few situations really call for a tank. Often, just switching to DPS is faster.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I have been a fan of this build Bor for a while. I was just asked to create a mod 9 version, with solid DPS and solid AC. Of course with today's AC ceiling and newest Turbine content released, playing a tank is a bit different. Interesting you would go pure, didnt see that before I created my take on your build. Since you have played this build for so long, interested in your opinion... pros and cons ... may help lots of folks deciding on building a tank...

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Hitman The Holy Terror
Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(18 Fighter \ 2 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 322
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 12
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             17                    25
Dexterity            14                    17
Constitution         12                    14
Intelligence         13                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             12                    14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 12
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                    18
Bluff                 1                     2
Concentration         1                     2
Diplomacy             1                     2
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     2
Heal                 -1                    -0.5
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate            5                    36
Jump                  8                    20
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     2
Search                2                     4
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  4                     7
Tumble                n/a                   6
Use Magic Device      n/a                  16

Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stability
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stonecutting
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Dwarven Waraxe
Feat: (Automatic) Giant Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Orc and Goblin Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Poison Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+3)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Flanking Mastery I


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery II


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization II


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III

Armor Class:

10 Base
+13 Armor
+9 Shield
+5 Protection
+6 Dodge
+1 Aura
+7 Dex
+4 Insight
+5 Combat Expertise
60 Standing, unbuffed

+3 Barkskin potion
+1 Haste pot/spell
64 self buffed

Then, there is always Aura of Good from higher level paladin, Barkskin from a high level ranger, Inspire Heroics from a level 15 Bard (or higher) and Recitation and you mid/high 70s AC!

Intimidate:

23 Base
6 Charisma
2 Luck
2 Fighter's Intimidate
15 Helmet of Intimidation
3 SF: Intimidate
51 Intimidate
55 with GH (Magic number to intim Sally in VOD on normal)
61 with Shroud +6 CHA skills bonus item

With 50 intimidate, you get the Stormreaver (Elite) on a 2. It takes 53 the pit fiend (Normal) on a 2.

Saving Throws:

Code:Base Saves: +12 +4 +4
Saves from Charisma: +6 +6 +6
Saves from Feats: +0 +2 +0
Aura of Good: +1 +1 +1
Enhanced abilities: +2 +6 +6
Luck bonus: +2 +2 +2
Resistance: +5 +5 +5
Total Saves: +28 +26 +24

These will be in the 30s with buffs and/or gear

UMD breakdown:

16 Base
+3 6 Charisma item
+2 Luck (Head of Good Fortune)
+3 Skill Focus UMD
+4 Morale (Greater Heroism)
28 UMD

If we add Golden Cartouche for non-weapon UMD (like scrolls or gear that is not changed while in combat), a total of 30 UMD can be reached.

Seven Fingered Gloves and +6 Cha skills Green Steel Accessory = 38 umd.

Hit points:
450+ with gear

[Auran82]

My tank who was based of this build is currently level 19 and at 20 will be something like:

14/6 Fighter/Paladin
Currently Stalwart II/KotC I

Considering changing to Kensai because as Borro said, I rarely tank and spend more time TWFing Khopeshes than using a shield.

Originally was 13/3 at level 16 and decided to go to 6 levels of paladin for the extra cha, exalted smite and divine sacrifice.

At 20 he should have just over 500hp, all saves are 30+ (more with GH etc) intimidate at last check was 63, 67 with GH.

TWF AC:
+10 Base
+8 Dex
+1 Dodge Feat
+2 Bracers
+5 Prot
+4 Insight
+15 Armour
+1 Armour ritual
+5 CE
+2 Aura
+2 Prestige
---------------
55 ac TWFing without buffs
---------------
+8 Shield
+1 Shield ritual
+3 Stance
---------------
67ac with a shield
---------------

Then can add in barkskin pot/spell, haste, bard song, better paladin aura to have a 'tanking' ac in the mid to high 70s which is ok for normal content, lol.

Can post the rest of the build if anyone wants it, some weird choices on stats but I'm happy with how he worked out, lol.

[roadrunner404]

read your OP and updates, looks like a great build to me, im doing it atm, but question for you. Since this is a tank, hes using sword/shield right? Then why did you say axe attack ??

also, can't find dwarfen thoughness, do you mean dwarven constitution?

[rimble]

Since this is a tank, hes using sword/shield right? Then why did you say axe attack ??

He's using axe/shield, or axe/axe. You're not always tanking, at those times you whip out two weapons and hack things up. A good tank needs a good damage option too.

also, can't find dwarfen thoughness, do you mean dwarven constitution?

I think it's called Racial Toughness.

[roadrunner404]

oh didn't notice any 1 hand axes yet! thanks for pointing that out.

so never 2h axes? always 1h axe/shielld or 1h axe/1h axe?

why axes? just what he chose?

[Tanka]

why axes? just what he chose?

Dwarves have two Enhancement lines that buff axes, one for their to-hit, one for their damage.

[spyderwolf]

Well, it's not like if I can't tank with 3 less AC in the rare situations where I do feel the need to tank.

stalwart is actually more than 3 more ac. its 2 more max dex to heavy armor , 4 from stance, 1 per tier for 3 total ,and 2 from set bonus. so thats 11 ac more? 11 ac is a pretty significant jump.