Borror Z'rro - Dwarven Defender

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Intimitanks have always been very, very heavily gear dependent. To say "no new player could ever attain this" is partially right, if only due to the fact that without the proper gear and knowledge, such an Intimitank is gonna get clobbered no matter the cause.

Exactly. That was my only point. Selling builds like this mislead new players and average players. Unless you plan on dedicating all your DDO life and most of your REAL life to "possibly" get the perfect gear needed, and sounds groovy to you, then knock yourself out.

My warforged tank gets up to 65AC and I know full well the benefits and the effort and the gameplay that goes into playing a tank. On certain quests he comes in great handy. In PvP a superstar. But PvP isnt questing, there IS a difference. There are costs besides gear/weaponry to keep this soldier upright in battle. The right items needed to really make this build shine are simply out of grasp for the vast majority of players. Its a very very "niche" build.

[Borror0]

Exactly. That was my only point. Selling builds like this mislead new players and average players. Unless you plan on dedicating all your DDO life and most of your REAL life to "possibly" get the perfect gear needed, and sounds groovy to you, then knock yourself out.

**Ahem**

However, that's only if you suck but have good gear. It is very important to have good lowbie and high-end gear. Intimitanks are really gear-dependant, be ready for it.

I've said it from the start, you're still arguing about it on page 5...

My warforged tank gets up to 65AC and I know full well the benefits and the effort and the gameplay that goes into playing a tank. On certain quests he comes in great handy. There are costs besides gear/weaponry to keep this soldier upright in battle. The right items needed to really make this build shine are simply out of grasp for the vast majority of players. Its a very very "niche" build.

A very very "niche" builds that I receive questions about to help reproduce it or adapt to their game play and then receive thanks for the help and feedback oince they reach high levels and enjoy their build, sorry, but this build is enjoyed a lot. Lots of ppl enjoy their intimitank. Thjey are not the majority in-game, but they are a high proportion on the forums, which is a good thing... as ppl that doesn't read the forums will never read this thread. I will not that someone into consideration if he'll never read this thread. There are people that will enjoy this build, this is for them. Quit arguing, you don't like it? walk away, it's not for you. Some people do, this is for them and obviously not for you.

No offense Leslie, but you're very illogical. You have a 65 AC tank... but you're saying intimitanks sucks... what the hell?

[Strykersz]

To summarize the last few pages of this thread: This build *can* be effective with suboptimal gear, if you know what substitutions to make. However, the gear used is not excessive for a build that says "You must eat a tome by level 4 to use this build."

[Impaqt]

-sigh- Most of the build presented on this forum are NOT designed for brand new players. They are designed for well established gamers who tend to run in semi-static groups. ANd Surprise..... this tends tobe the VAST majority of people who frequent the forums. SHocking.. I know!

NOTHING in this list is all that had to come by taking that scenario into the equation. and to be honest, even a newer player with a little luck and a friend could do this build justice.

Some people enjoy picking apart builds for no real good reason..... THis is not one that screams "Outrageous" to me....

THeres been plenty of builds that incorporate Raid loot in just about every slot and Multiple +2 and even +3 Tomes..... THos are the ones I laugh at...

Playing a True Tank isnt for everyone. (Or even a "Hybrid" as some peoplel like to call it) If you arent up for the challenge, you can roll a straight fighter and take all kinds of SPecilizations and Focus' for your offense and do just fine int his game. FOr a True Defensive build, It take a bit more effort.

**
A very very "niche" builds that I receive questions about to help reproduce it or adapt to their game play and then receive thanks for the help and feedback oince they reach high levels and enjoy their build, sorry, but this build is enjoyed a lot. Lots of ppl enjoy their intimitank. ?

Dont forget about the people this build help influence to design their own Tank. WIthout this Build, Kilgan never would of been designed or rolled up!

[Averroes]

My warforged tank gets up to 65AC and I know full well the benefits and the effort and the gameplay that goes into playing a tank.

Wow. Your warforged must have some pretty nice gear... The best I can do is:

10 base
10 armor (mithral body, +5 docent)
7 dex (2 mithral fluidity feats, FTM 3, 24 dex)
=27
9 +5 MTS
5 deflection (+5 protection item)
3 natural (bark)
6 dodge (feat, chaosguards, chattering ring)
=50
1 aura
5 CE
1 haste
=57
3 standing next to an 11+ pally
2 grouped with a 12+ ranger
=62
2 recitation
=64

Not 65, even with buffs that one is unlikely to ever actually have.


And really, what are these costs "besides gear and weaponry" that are incurred to keep an intimtank up and running? Mine certainly doesn't require a cleric...

[sigtrent]

Wow. Your warforged must have some pretty nice gear... The best I can do is:

A lot of folks will include stuff like +2 when blocking and/or +5 armor fighter armor boost or thier bonus from uncanny dodge etc...

Silly to me but folks do that sometimes.

[kelsolo]

Well, I've managed to make my way up to level 7 with a very similar build to Borror's. I was worried that I might be a liability to groups I was in, but I simply took his final loot list and paired it down to items I could wear at my level. Currently my unbuffed AC is 40, achieved with this list:

10 - base
+11 - +3 Mitheral Full Plate
+7 - +3 Mitheral Tower Shield
+2 - Protection Necklace
+1 - Paladin Aura
+4 - Dex modifier
+5 - Combat Expertise

I regularily hit 45-46 in group situations.

I find that to be a pretty spectacular number doing tangleroot or stormcleave or other appropriately leveled quest.

My saves are great for this level as well, usually only failing on rolls of 1, but I am finding that agro from multiple casters requires some healing to stay alive (half damage still adds up). I'm begining to wonder if evasion at 14, while losing a few AC, might be worth it. Time will tell.

All of the items I'm currently wearing came very cheaply from the AH or from out of friend's bank accounts. I realize that they are not end game items, but really, if I just continue to upgrade what I have, I will certainly achieve the list Borror has posted, or very close to it. I already have several of the big items banked from my first character and friends (the full plate and tower shield). LeslieWest keeps talking about how the average player cannot get the items Borror listed unless he loots them himself, but I propose that most of us that play this game do it socially, and with the help of others its certainly doable. Yes it will take some time, but isn't that the point of this game? Questing to try and improve our characters? Yes, I may not be "quite" as effective as Borror (who has achieved most of his list), and Borror may not be "quite" as effective as someone who has achieved all of his list, but really, a couple of points here and there do not make it unplayable. It's actually the opposite, you just have to try a little harder!

In any case, I'm having a blast, and I think if you gave it a shot you might find yourself enjoying it as well LeslieWest.

Intimidating 4 giants on stormcleave elite, and watching your health bar just stay full is an absolute riot. Not sure if you know this, but when a giant does his big AE swing, even if he misses you, he still pushes you back with the rest of the fighters who were just knocked on their butts. Kinda funny to keep getting tossed around but not take any damage.

Cheers, and thanks to all the intimitanks that posted their builds, it really helped me decide what I wanted to do with my own.

[Slayer918]

A lot of folks will include stuff like +2 when blocking and/or +5 armor fighter armor boost or thier bonus from uncanny dodge etc...

Silly to me but folks do that sometimes.

Leslie does not like using clickies such as boosts

[Borror0]

Intimidating 4 giants on stormcleave elite, and watching your health bar just stay full is an absolute riot.

I don't know if it was an intended pun or not, but I laughed so hard.

Glad you enjoy your tank.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Wow. Your warforged must have some pretty nice gear... The best I can do is:

10 base
10 armor (mithral body, +5 docent)
7 dex (2 mithral fluidity feats, FTM 3, 24 dex)
=27
9 +5 MTS
5 deflection (+5 protection item)
3 natural (bark)
6 dodge (feat, chaosguards, chattering ring)
=50
1 aura
5 CE
1 haste
=57
3 standing next to an 11+ pally
2 grouped with a 12+ ranger
=62
2 recitation
=64

Not 65, even with buffs that one is unlikely to ever actually have.


And really, what are these costs "besides gear and weaponry" that are incurred to keep an intimtank up and running? Mine certainly doesn't require a cleric...

10 Base
7 Max Dex Bonus (Fighter's Armor Mastery II)
5 Mithral Body
5 +5 Docent
7 +5 Heavy Shield
5 Combat Expertise
2 Chaosguarde Bracers
1 Dodge feat
1 Haste
5 Protection
3 Chattering Ring
3 Barkskin
1 Aura
-----------------
55
4 Action Boost
-----------------
59
3 Standing next to pali
2 standing next to ranger
-----------------
64
2 luck bonus (recitation)
-----------------
66

just woke up so dont kill if i added wrong or left something out ... but overall not a bad number heh?

[Riot]

I don't know if it was an intended pun or not, but I laughed so hard.

I saw that too. Thought it was Subliminal.... LoL

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I saw that too. Thought it was Subliminal.... LoL

Hmmm, think I'll swipe that name for my Bard... Subliminal....

[kelsolo]

I don't know if it was an intended pun or not, but I laughed so hard.

Glad you enjoy your tank.

Heh, not intentional, but mayhaps subliminal...

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

There are people that will enjoy this build, this is for them. you don't like it? walk away

Ahhhhh, funny how you didnt take this advice from me in a thread I started last month.... You didnt like my DPS build, which would have been cool if you didnt spam my thread for say.. 80 different times? No offense, but I think you need follow your own advice a little more....

Its my personal preference to tell it the way it is. There are too few people in DDO that can clothe and play this build.

All I'm saying is lets put together some builds that the MAJORITY of DDO can build and play... and not these super-duper-uberfied concepts that even the builder himself doesn't even have the loot to match.

As for being called "illogical" Borro, I must say it feels pretty logical to help people design and play builds that they can play today. Thats what I do on Ghallanda for those who ask. They seem pretty happy about their builds too.

My opinion will not change because Mr. Borro0 doesn't like my build or doesn't like my opinion of his. I feel that this build isnt worth the time invested into it to play at this point. It doesnt speak to enough players (that has this loot) to really be worth much. Maybe when we get to level 16-20 my opinion might change. I think the intimitank and battle cleric builds will be much happier when we see level 20. Until then, step aside, Aandre's getting the kill!!

[Impaqt]

Ahhhhh, funny how you didnt take this advice from me in a thread I started last month.... You didnt like my DPS build, which would have been cool if you didnt spam my thread for say.. 80 different times? No offense, but I think you need follow your own advice a little more....

Its my personal preference to tell it the way it is. There are too few people in DDO that can clothe and play this build.

All I'm saying is lets put together some builds that the MAJORITY of DDO can build and play... and not these super-duper-uberfied concepts that even the builder himself doesn't even have the loot to match.

As for being called "illogical" Borro, I must say it feels pretty logical to help people design and play builds that they can play today. Thats what I do on Ghallanda for those who ask. They seem pretty happy about their builds too.

My opinion will not change because Mr. Borro0 doesn't like my build or doesn't like my opinion of his. I feel that this build isnt worth the time invested into it to play at this point. It doesnt speak to enough players (that has this loot) to really be worth much. Maybe when we get to level 16-20 my opinion might change. I think the intimitank and battle cleric builds will be much happier when we see level 20. Until then, step aside, Aandre's getting the kill!!

SO now the real motivation comes out.... Your thread got closed, so your going to do whatever it takes to shut this one down....


The Majority of the server population dont even come to the forums on a regular basis.. Let alone to look at Builds.... THe vast majority of people around here are the power gamers who dont feel the gear listed is excessive at all.... I cant explain it any better.

[Borror0]

Ahhhhh, funny how you didnt take this advice from me in a thread I started last month.... You didnt like my DPS build, which would have been cool if you didnt spam my thread for say.. 80 different times? No offense, but I think you need follow your own advice a little more....

Difference, we were trying to improve your build, you would not listen. You had the biggest fighter forum posters against you (and even that mostly post in other sections), telling you that you could impove it. Coming up with logical arguements, proving you that you would come out better of the suggested changes. Now, if you have any suggestion to make my build better, I will gladly listen and comment on your suggestions. If all you have to do is saying how mean I am to post a build that most players of the game can't play, get off the thread. Let those that like the build post.

Its my personal preference to tell it the way it is. There are too few people in DDO that can clothe and play this build.

All I'm saying is lets put together some builds that the MAJORITY of DDO can build and play... and not these super-duper-uberfied concepts that even the builder himself doesn't even have the loot to match.

So you're saying that it should be forbiden to posr a Battle mage or any fun build because they are not for everyone? Because they need gear? I'm not walking around and saying "everyone should make an intimitank" or saying that it's for everyone. I've said it many times, and say it once more intimitanks are not for everyone. Live with it. I know it, stop trying to "teach" me or whatever. I've played the build, I know it's not an easy build to play to its full potential, but for those that what to give it a try, the build is there. Quote me where I said this was for the majority of DDO players. I'm not giving false hope to anyone. I would have not reposted my build it wasn't of requests. Yes, you read right, I got a ton of PMs about my build and I'm still getting. I've got two people waiting for me to have enough time to reply, to give them my point of view.

You're saying i should not post here and help them?

As for being called "illogical" Borro, I must say it feels pretty logical to help people design and play builds that they can play today. Thats what I do on Ghallanda for those who ask. They seem pretty happy about their builds too.

What makes this build unplayable today?

Then I would try to refute and prove you're being illogical but you didn't even refute my statement, lol.

My opinion will not change because Mr. Borro0 doesn't like my build or doesn't like my opinion of his. I feel that this build isnt worth the time invested into it to play at this point.

Then why do you have a "65 AC tank"?

Until then, step aside, Aandre's getting the kill!!

What kills? The sorcerer, the rogue and the barbarian's stole them from you.

[Mhykke]

I'd just like to say that I don't think the gear required, on the whole, is all that difficult for a player (casual or powergamer) to get, in today's ddo, if he makes a conscious effort to do so. Especially not if he focuses on that one character's development for a little while.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

SO now the real motivation comes out.... Your thread got closed, so your going to do whatever it takes to shut this one down....


The Majority of the server population dont even come to the forums on a regular basis.. Let alone to look at Builds.... THe vast majority of people around here are the power gamers who dont feel the gear listed is excessive at all.... I cant explain it any better.

See now THIS is where you are wrong. Once gamers find out there IS a forum, they check it out. I get about 10-20 a week at LEAST to check out the forums. I read it and recommend it. I know as a long time gamer that a forum represents a game in many ways. A vibrant forum almost always means a vibrant game. Since I love this game, I will get as many people to the forums as I can...

In order to educate the general populous, we need to include builds they can play. I already know how to build and play an elite build. I have several in fact. But I prefer to cater to the general player. I support THEM, not the power gamer. Without the "regular" players, DDO would be gone.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Difference, we were trying to improve your build, you would not listen. You had the biggest fighter forum posters against you (and even that mostly post in other sections), telling you that you could impove it.

Out of over 250+ posts more than half were you and Mkykke... constantly spamming the thread, with insults and no new ideas... But I still won the war. I didnt cry, I stood up for what I believed in. I listened to everyone, but had to repeat appx 100 times to you and Mkykke that the build wasnt going to change to your likings. For the 2 or 3 people that actually had good ideas, I gave them props, and explained that it was an alternate way my build can be designed... You however had no good ideas for the build. My build is a solid DPS build built on a Maldini core. It is pretty easy to build and pretty dominating, regardless what you feel. Most importantly ANYBODY can play the build, not much is needed to dominate, just good solid stats, feats, and enhancements. Those are the kind of builds I like.

You want my critique? ok... I think your toon is too underpowered to be an offensive force. Your defense isnt as effective now as it would be if this were Mod 2 or 3. You'll do great in PvP because noone can hit you. In a quest, you get hit, no doubt about it, spend your money on healing... futz around with your defenses (clicky's and pots and whatever else you use) instead of killing. The attitude you've shown on my thread and on this thread show that you cant take criticism well. You have said your build is the ultimate... I dont see it that way.. I'm really not impressed. Show me a build that can be played AS ADVERTISED.

If one is interested in an intimitank build, I suggest Riot's build. It's sold honestly, without the dream-gear, and plays as advertised.

Just because I have an intimitank, doesnt mean I play it now. I take him out for certain quests only. A DPS fighter or barb can excel in many more situations in the current game setting.. just my opinion.... Oh, if you dont want your build picked apart, then dont post 100+ of the same post on somebody's thread.

[Mhykke]

Out of over 250+ posts more than half were you and Mkykke... constantly spamming the thread, with insults and no new ideas... But I still won the war. I didnt cry, I stood up for what I believed in. I listened to everyone, but had to repeat appx 100 times to you and Mkykke that the build wasnt going to change to your likings. For the 2 or 3 people that actually had good ideas, I gave them props, and explained that it was an alternate way my build can be designed... You however had no good ideas for the build. My build is a solid DPS build built on a Maldini core. It is pretty easy to build and pretty dominating, regardless what you feel. Most importantly ANYBODY can play the build, not much is needed to dominate, just good solid stats, feats, and enhancements. Those are the kind of builds I like.

You want my critique? ok... I think your toon is too underpowered to be an offensive force. Your defense isnt as effective now as it would be if this were Mod 2 or 3. You'll do great in PvP because noone can hit you. In a quest, you get hit, no doubt about it, spend your money on healing... futz around with your defenses (clicky's and pots and whatever else you use) instead of killing. The attitude you've shown on my thread and on this thread show that you cant take criticism well. You have said your build is the ultimate... I dont see it that way.. I'm really not impressed. Show me a build that can be played AS ADVERTISED.

Just because I have an intimitank, doesnt mean I play it now. I take him out for certain quests only. A DPS fighter or barb can excel in many more situations in the current game setting.. just my opinion.... Oh, if you dont want your build picked apart, then dont post 100+ of the same post on somebody's thread.

For the record, I didn't insult you. Go back to your thread, I even defended you once or twice. Criticizing your build isn't insulting. Nobody was saying anything different than I was, even those you praise.