Dark Dancer (A build by request)

[sigtrent]

From Sigtrent's Build Request Thread

Build Name: Dark Dancer
Author: Sigfried Trent
Requester: Jules921
Last Updated: 05/27/10

Key Words [Drow, Warchanter, TWF, Bard]

Objectives
The requester wanted a pure warchanter, one that was more about beefing up the party than themselves, but could still do some fighting.

Design
The original really marginalized its combat with only two weapon fighting, although this was at a lower level cap. I didn't change much here. Drow was used due to the strong charisma and dex, both needed for the build, and because of the weapon synergy with a bards better TWF weapons. While this is definately a casting bard, feats are used to amplify combat, and some enhancement points do the same. While not maxed out on DC and Spell Pen, its still very respectable. On the combat side the build does not have massive strength, although its enough to have a respectable to hit and add some extra damage. In some ways that may be best for a build with modest con and final hit points. Pulling to much agro would be a problem. Agro and hit points are why diplomacy was taken as a skill. If the build does pull agro it has a mechanism to shed it long enough to throw up more defenses. Healing is only so-so, mostly useful for topping off and keeping a party going through fairly average encounters. As a primary healer it just can't crank out the numbers needed which is fine since its more a CC and fighting character during a fight.

I build this one without tomes so that it could be a starting build, although if you have them you can eek out strength by taking dex down a bit and using a +2 tome to hit the prerequisites you need at level 15. Many would say the build has too few HP and not enough DPS and sacrifices too much to get what DPS it does have. I agree to some extent but if you really want a caster warchanter, thats what you end up with, the feats needed more or less demand further investment in melee and that conflicts directly on feats and ability scores with the casting side of the build. Its not a bad character at all, great utility for any party, but as an individual character its not a superstar in any single way and depends on a party to make what it does specialize in (helping others) to work well.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Drow Male
(20 Bard) 
Hit Points: 160
Spell Points: 826 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 7
Reflex: 15
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    14
Dexterity            17                    17
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             17                    27

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    25
Bluff                 4                     9
Concentration         5                    24
Diplomacy             8                    32
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                4                     9
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate            4                     9
Jump                  4                    24
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               8                    32
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     2
Spot                 -1                     1
Swim                  1                     1
Tumble                4                     4
Use Magic Device      8                    32

Level 1 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (1): Hypnotism
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 2 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Rage
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Master's Touch
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II


Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I


Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Soundburst
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Charm Monster
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II


Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III


Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Neutralize Poison
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Spell (5): Summon Monster V
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III


Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (5): Mind Fog
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III


Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Focusing Chant
Spell (5): Greater Dispel Magic
Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (6): Otto's Irresistable Dance
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration II


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Glitterdust
Spell (6): Greater Shout
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I


Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (3): Remove Curse
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song II


Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Hold Monster
Spell (6): Mass Charm Monster
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (5): Mass Suggestion
Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II

Play
Avoid playing hero. Stick with a partner in melee, one that can pull agro from you. Jump in after the fight starts. Use CC to good effect but watch out for the agro it can generate. Keep that diplomacy button handy and say mobile.

Variations
Feats are where you can shift things around. If you want more of a caster, loose the later combat feats. If you want more of a fighter, drop a spell feat for toughness and move charisma points into strength.

[EinarMal]

I would probably either drop mental toughness for ITWF or drop TWF for spell focus enchantment or extend. From my experience without at least ITWF it really isn't worth having TWF past level 8 or so unless you keep taking the feats. You do get off hand effects which help a little, but you don't have any strategy (trip/stun) that really benefit from an off hand bonus. You could even take SF UMD to get close to 39 for automatic heal scroll usage.

[skraus1]

Taking only one of the TWFing chain seems a little off to me. You must sacrifice 6 build points for the 16 dex and a +1 tome to qualify for subsequent feats all of which could be spent elsewhere, such as in str.

TWFing seems a little like THFing, you need to take them all you qualify for or take none of them.

I really think that if you want to take casting feats, you will be better off with a more str based build and a two handed weapon.

[skraus1]

Ein- how is it you always respond WHILE I'm responding!?!?!? Lol Luckily we tend to think the same way.

[skraus1]

One other comment. I don't see a reason for an int above 10. Sneaking and hiding are not necessary if you can fight. Warchanters should be able to fight.

If you're not going to take the TWF line all the way I would go :

Starting Statistics (28pts)
STR 17 – DEX 10 – CON 12 – INT 10 – WIS 8 – CHA 18

Feats: Weapon Focus slashing, Power Attack, Improved Critical Slashing, Mental Toughness, some other casting feat : sf enchantment.


If you really want to be a CC build with int, you could even make a tripping bard to make the bard less reliant on mana for CC. Of course ideally this would be a dwarf build for the dwarven strategy enhancements, but a drow would work too.

I would go something like:
Starting Statistics (28pts)
STR 16 – DEX 10 – CON 12 – INT 13 – WIS 9 – CHA 16

Feats: Weapon Focus slashing, Power Attack, Improved Critical Slashing, combat expertise, improved trip.

[sigtrent]

Good comments, I'll explain my thinking...

#1 Its a pure bard so two handed weapons are limited to quarter staff which I don't think is an especialy good weapon, so I'm stearing away from two handers.

#2 TWF by itself is still pretty good. I have two characters with TWF only, one has it via ranger, the other is a finesse wizard. For the ranger guy, TWF is better DPS than 1-H and often a bit better than 2-H even with power attack so long as I have an attack bonus in the 25+ range. for the wizard, adding an off hand sneak attack is HUGE in terms of bonus to attack and damage. What other single feat gives you an extra attack each round? And we all know that with a bard, extra attacks = a lot of extra damage. Why no ITWF? Its a question of ballance. IC piercing is probably a tad stronger due to puncturing weapons bieng so good. I could drop mental toughness but it's quite a few spell points and this is a mixed fighting casting character.

#3 The original build already had 14 dex, I was trying to stick kind of close to it, and the bump to 15 was pretty easy. I ended up with an odd point so I went to 16. Its good for AC if nothing else and I could only eek out 2 pts of str moving it down to 10. That just doesn't seem worth it, dumping 3 AC 3pts of ranged attack, and TWF for +1 to attack and damage in melee and 2pts to throw elsewhere.

#4 The stealth also came from the orginal build which had 14 int. I paired it down a bit but wanted to keep the stealth since the original had it, and it can be usefull.

[~Jules921]

Looks like I'm going to have to build a 3rd bard. I even like the name DarkDancer. Will have to try a variation on it

Let you all know how she turns out.

Jules

[cparkhorn13]

I like this build, A LOT! Gonna try it out for sure, but can you work out a modified enhancement line so that the prestige class Virtuoso can be incorporated instead of warchanter?!

[winsom]

I like this build, A LOT! Gonna try it out for sure, but can you work out a modified enhancement line so that the prestige class Virtuoso can be incorporated instead of warchanter?!

Do some more research on the bard forums as this build is over 3 years old and the game has changed. I'm not saying that this build is bad. A lot of things have been added to the game (enhancements, feats) and some important rules have changed. TWF used to be a lot better than it is currently. I don't think TWF feats are worth it on many characters any longer. Rogues, Monk, Ranger (free), sure. Maybe some fighter builds.

[Aerendil]

My prediction - this character will level insanely fast until level 10, and then flop.

I had a Drow Spellsinger who took a few TWF feats so that he could melee a little - and ended up basically with the same stat layout as what was presented above. 13 starting STR (instead of 14), 17 DEX, rest into CON and CHA.
When he got to level 10+ and started doing Gianthold / Sands / etc., I found I was whiffing. Alot.
And when he was hitting, he just wasn't putting out the damage needed.

And, unlike my SS, this Warchanter won't be able to reliably land his/her spells (no metamagic feats other than Extend) either, which makes the character even worse.

Bards don't have great AC. or HP.
You need to be able to keep an enemy either perma-disabled (via stuns, holds, etc.) or be able to simply take them out very quickly.
I'm not sure a 14 STR / 12 CON melee Bard with no Evasion can do that.


*edit* - yeah, hadn't noticed the initial post date either.
**** you guys for necro-bumping this stuff and discussing it as though it's a recent template. Grrr.

[karl_k0ch]

I just realized that I was responding to a pretty old post, but nevertheless I'm going to include the comments.

Good comments, I'll explain my thinking...

#1 Its a pure bard so two handed weapons are limited to quarter staff which I don't think is an especialy good weapon, so I'm stearing away from two handers.

Nowadays, we have Warchanter II, which is a huge boon in the form of the following enhancement:

- <Weapon> Training, e.g. this one
Usage: Passive
Cost: 1 action point
Spent: 43 action points
Requires All of: Weapon Focus: <Weapon Type Weapons>, Bard Warchanter II
Available to Bard class level 12
Grants martial weapon proficiency with <Weapons>.

This helps pure Warchanters a lot when trying to melee. I prefer Falchions for that task.

But I think this build deserves a revistation and I do not recommend rolling this toon 3 years after the build has been posted.

[unbongwah]

I don't think TWF feats are worth it on many characters any longer.

I don't want to get into a TWF vs THF debate / flame war, but: if you decided to go for TWF, why would you not take the full TWF feat chain? Or are you saying TWF itself isn't worth it?

[cparkhorn13]

After I had posted this, I did realize that it was 3 years old. So enhancements and feats will be rearranged by me as needed.

My starting stats are

STR: 14
DEX: 16
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 18

*Thoughts on stats at least?*

Prediction: Drow, Pure Bard, Virtuoso, TWF (rapiers, shortswords)

[BoBoDaClown]

After I had posted this, I did realize that it was 3 years old. So enhancements and feats will be rearranged by me as needed.

My starting stats are

STR: 14
DEX: 16
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 18

*Thoughts on stats at least?*

Prediction: Drow, Pure Bard, Virtuoso, TWF (rapiers, shortswords)

My immediate reaction - feats?

You look like you getting the charisma to be able to spell cast and heal, yet you'll need weapon feats to make the twf chain worthwhile.

Necessary Feats (you have 7 available):
Toughness
Two Weapon Fighting x3

Nice Feats:
Heighten for spell casting
Maximise for healing
Quicken for spell casting and healing
Improve Crit for when you don't have min2 or so you are not forever tied to min2s
Extend would be nice
Power Attack - might be hard to maintain in epics with your to hit.
I guess you could drop Extend, Quicken, Power Attack.

This would enable you to contribute dps wise with dual lightening strikes/vorpals.
Have decent spell CC (be 3 DC off a specced spellsinger)
Be a solid back up healer - no quicken for serious healing duties.

[Crinos]

snip
Power Attack - might be hard to maintain in epics with your to hit.
I guess you could drop Extend, Quicken, Power Attack.
snip

This is a warchanter build. Power attack is a required feat to take the warchanter pre. Unless of course you are suggesting swapping to a different Pre.

Also, ato all those commenting on this being a 3 year old build, it's worth noting that the initial post was edited only 3 months ago, so I'd imagine it's fairly up to date. After all, we didn't have level 20 3 years ago.

[Valindria]

After I had posted this, I did realize that it was 3 years old. So enhancements and feats will be rearranged by me as needed.

My starting stats are

STR: 14
DEX: 16
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 18

*Thoughts on stats at least?*

Prediction: Drow, Pure Bard, Virtuoso, TWF (rapiers, shortswords)

the bard in my sig is a twf pure bard (drow) check it out and see if it something you would be interested in.

[bartosy]

the bard in my sig is a twf pure bard (drow) check it out and see if it something you would be interested in.

yea that one actually makes sense.. this one however.. i dunno i can undertstand the idea of pure and charisma dc for spells but 12 con racial toughness 2 and no lvl ups in con whatsoever nor tomes just makes for a character that got under 300 hp and will die like a fly later on in quests..

valindria's build makes a lot more sense she/he put some lvl ups into con to counter the low hp at the start with 12 + 2 lvl +2 tome +6 item you're sitting on 22 = 24 raged is around 350 hp i think at lvl 20 wich is pretty decent, i personally like my bards even pure ones at least with 400 hp tho.. you can get away with 350hp on maybe a halfling because they got incredible saves and no penalty to con like drow but on any other race 350hp is a bit of a liability if you want to melee, 300 and under is just borderline suicidde in some epic quests.

[BoBoDaClown]

Unless of course you are suggesting swapping to a different Pre.

Going by the stats, wanting to cast and melee, I would go Spellsinger - cheaper feat wise, and offsets some of the loss of not having spell focuses.