Two Things to Fix

[DSL]

Cast by a 20th level caster, without saving would be 20d6 or up to 120 points of damage (Save for 60). Maximized multiplies it 2 times to 40d6 or up to 240 points (Save for 120). Add empower on to that and it goes up to 50d6 or 300 points of damage (Save for 150). Even if you save for half, hitting the entire party for that much damage could be devestating since there is NO way to stop it.

AHh right... I forgot that in DDO maximize is x2 instead of, well, maximum.

However, we are making what is perhaps a bold assumption that this spell would be used by Maximize-using MOBs, and the track record of these things in my experience is that they would not have too many scenarios where this sort of damage would be spammed out at the players (though I expect eventually we'll see the players spamming it out at the MOBs).

[DSL]

And what happens when you add in the fact that while only a fraction of enemies have spell resistance at all, pretty much every PC could have it at higher levels?

What tends to be the case is that some quests have SR-protected MOBs, while other quests don't. Since players know which are which, casters could readily tailor their spell selection accordingly (well, except the sorcerers). Of course, nothing stops NPC clerics form buffing their guys with Mass SR spells either. Also, don't forget that some creatures magical attacks are supernatural abilities (No SR), while pretty much everything a player can throw is a spell.

There's no doubt that allowing SR to work as per PnP would improve the players' defensive abilities, but I expect that this would more than anything cause a lot of problems for the casters, especially the arcanes, and ultimately anger a great many of them. This is not like the evasion in heavy armor issue, which was something they hadn't really intended but didn't bother to fix for a while - this is a deliberate design choice, and when they say it was to benefit players, I confess that I believe them (call me crazy).

[MrCow]

Average non humanoid monstrosity on norm has 16-18 caster level. Hard jumps to 20-22 elite jumps to 24-26-28 onward into infinity.

Sorry, but I have to correct this.

Monsters in DDO use their CR rating to determine their caster level, not their hit dice. This is kinda odd, like when that fighter/wizard elf in gwylan's is casting at full blast (being humanoids have 1 CR for every level).

Regardless, monster CR from normal to hard and to elite follow a fairly simple pattern on nearly every monster (excluding the decimal CR monsters and a few other exceptions, namely harbor rated monsters). On hard, add +2 to the CR of the monster from what it has on normal. On elite, add +5 to the CR of the monster from what it has on normal.



In regards to the whole no negating horrid wilting problem... doesn't it use something like slow, where the purple cylinder ring graphic occupies an area and the effect takes place a second later? If that is true, then can't you dodge it with a high tumble or fast run?

[MysticTheurge]

when they say it was to benefit players, I confess that I believe them (call me crazy).

Honestly, I believe that that was the original intention of the change.

But I think it was done without considering a) all the ramifications or b) where the game would grow (a fairly significant flaw in DDO's early game design if you ask me).

And honestly, in general, anything defensive benefits players more than our enemies (provided we both have equal access... grumblegrumblebossimmunities) largely because we're smarter than they are, but also because of the differences in HP totals. An given defense benefits us more because we have fewer hit points and therefore are in more need of said defense.

If someone really wants to do some caster level testing vs. SR it shouldn't be that hard. Find some people who cast spells that currently interact with SR and explore it's efficiency.

Determine what has what levels of SR should be even easier. Go out and start casting SR-able spells on things and see what kinds of numbers you have to roll to overcome it.

[Gornin]

I think both SR and Anit-magic fields both need to be fixed just for the simple fact that it will be closer to PnP. These are just 2 of the small things that have caused several people I know to quit playing. The most common reason I get that people I know quit is " it says D&D Online, but its not really D&D".

Some changes to a realtime game are to be expected, but alot of people feel that not properly implementing an iconic monster like a beholder is not right. Same with a simple concept like SR. Many feel that until it is just like D&D rules, don't implement it until it is right.

I love this game, but some times it irritates me that things don't work like they are supposed too. I usually don't figure it out until I die. Frustrating.
I'm not talking about bugs, they are to be expected in something like this. Just things like this and other things I see talked about on the forums or in game. The goal should always be to be as close to PnP rules as possible.

Edit: Unless this game is being used to test out some 4.0 concepts. Let us know about it if it is.

[Kraldor]

Globe of invulnerability is different. It stops/prevent spells (and spell-like effects) of a given spell level or lower. It's generally less powerful than Antimagic and won't stop any supernatural abilities.

I think his point was that those antimagic globes suppress magic instead of dispelling it, and that it shouldn't be too hard to implement a similar mechanic for antimagic fields and beholder eyes.

[HumanRogue]

In regards to the whole no negating horrid wilting problem... doesn't it use something like slow, where the purple cylinder ring graphic occupies an area and the effect takes place a second later? If that is true, then can't you dodge it with a high tumble or fast run?

If this is the case, then I have no problem with Horrid Wilting implementation. I was running under the impression that it was like Diefic Vengence and was an insta-hit spell. If it is as you describe it, dodging is a defence which means my concerns are unfounded. Thanks for pointing that out and setting my mind at ease.

[Lifespawn]

correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't that ghost in From beyond the grave cast horrid wilting?And the way to save the party was deathward it always blocked it...?

[HumanRogue]

correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't that ghost in From beyond the grave cast horrid wilting?And the way to save the party was deathward it always blocked it...?

Horrid Wilting actually deals 1d6 untyped damage per caster level (max 20d6) to all living creatures within the area of effect, Fortitude half.

It's possible that at the moment on live it's set up to deal negative energy damage, but in the spell update pass that'd have been corrected. Death Ward won't stop it - not much does.

As posted today.

[Invalid_86]

/signed. Mystic you are right on the money!

[LeLoric]

Can we add a third for ranged touch attacks mt?

[MysticTheurge]

Can we add a third for ranged touch attacks mt?

/sigh

Yeah, probably. I've just done that one up a few times already. Adding touch AC and flat-footed AC to the game would be a good thing too.

[Drider]

How about a 4th, I want my followers!

**do they even still have those in 3.x?

[MrCow]

If it is as you describe it, dodging is a defence which means my concerns are unfounded. Thanks for pointing that out and setting my mind at ease.

Don't rest easy yet. If they are changing the spell's damage type then they could be looking at changing the implementation in other things for the spell. Its one of those questions we won't know the true answer to until we either get confirmation from Turbine or see it for ourselves.

Although, that would require work to change...

[Pellegro]

I don't recall reading the lack of SR for direct damage spells as being expressly for the purpose of helping PCs (vs. NPCs). I always assumed the reason direct damage spells bypass SR was to give casters the equivalent of a sword - something that they could use to consistently contribute (read: pump out damage) so as not to be bored. Some of you were around pre Mod-4 (or was it even pre Mod-3?) back when everyone complained that DDO was all about tanks & hack-n-slash, with casters being good for haste and not much more .... That's not the complaint you hear nowadays.

Regardless, I think DDO has settled into a niche market - namely, D&D players. While I personally like that direct-damage spells avoid SR and give my sorceror the easy fall-back option of a maximized scorching-ray on most enemies, I also see the wisdom in catering to one's market.

So I'd like to see them bring it more in line with PnP, and just consider other ways to keep casters feel involved (e.g. relatively low SR on most monsters until higher levels thereby making the debate somewhat academic; combined with more enemy casters having feats to overcome/counteract the SR of players). Personally, in a dream world, each individual monster (as opposed to each monster type) would have a unique set of randomly applied buffs and SR, items, etc. Keep casters challenged with trying out new approaches in each encounter rather than each quest or mob-type. After all, everybody knows, the smart kids play the MU.

[LeLoric]

the reason i say touch ac is if they do sr and people with high sr are not getting disintegrates and polar rays my elven rogue with no sr should also have a way to not be hit