Two Things to Fix

[Raithe]

Soundburst seems to deal damage regardless of the SR check for stun. I think different spell effects are checked or not checked separately. I don't think it's a "this spell is, that one isn't" thing.

I might be wrong, however.

[Drider]

As much as I'd like a working SR, that would mean it would work for the baddies too, and it already takes 2-4 maximized damage spells to kill most mobs.

[MysticTheurge]

As much as I'd like a working SR, that would mean it would work for the baddies too, and it already takes 2-4 maximized damage spells to kill most mobs.

What are you doing using damaging spells against enemies anyway.

But more seriously, that's part of the game. Some enemies have high SR and are harder to kill with spells just like some enemies have high AC or DR and are harder to kill with regular attacks.

[Drider]

What are you doing using damaging spells against enemies anyway.

**** it! I'm hardcore! Besides, I like my fireballs and cones of cold!

and I really just have no fun when the most efficient way to kill things is Firewall, PK, or FoD.

[Sokar6000]

/agree, ESPECIALLY since they ALREADY have the coding for supressing effects. (Glode of invulnerability, anyone?)

[Nero]

In reference to earlier posting look at SR this way.

Lets say we have 22 sr from and item or 26 from a cleric. And the monster has the same + some due to levels.

Monsters will be increasing in hit dice and levels faster then we will and fixing SR will only really benefit the monster.

Average non humanoid monstrosity on norm has 16-18 caster level. Hard jumps to 20-22 elite jumps to 24-26-28 onward into infinity. With level cap up expect this to rise even further into the extreme numbers.

Monsters casters will still hit you a lot. But we will miss a lot unless we spend feats and points into things so we can effectively bypass their sr.

Also look at it this was 90% of spells that will gain sr stoppage were already easily preventable. Let say fireball. Simple and easy to dodge. Up reflex save and you have nothing to worry about since most casters will hit you for 40-60 points resisted its 10-30 if you save before that all of the damage is gone. If you manualy dodge the damage is gone. Schorching ray by monsters is even easier because its 3 small damage spells pop on a resist and they don't even get through. Of course you could always dodge them. Polar ray is a hard hitter but heh they got to have something. 90% of nasty damage in this game short of a sword up the wazoo can almost be completely mitigated. Horrid wilting won't be that bad since monsters don't use feats. 20d6? thats 90-120 damage without saving fort saves for most people are high my caster has a 24 fort save buffed.

With SR fixed we will still get hit but our ability to hit them will be compromized. unless were talking low level content.

[Laith]

Horrid wilting won't be that bad since monsters don't use feats. 20d6? thats 90-120 damage without saving fort saves for most people are high my caster has a 24 fort save buffed.

that makes it similar to an AOE disintegrate, that's probably much harder to dodge.
maybe closer to a delayed blast fireball (but no possible resistance to cover up 1/4 to 1/3 or all of the effect)

sounds pretty painful to me.

[Drider]

Horrid wilting won't be that bad since monsters don't use feats. 20d6? thats 90-120 damage without saving fort saves for most people are high my caster has a 24 fort save buffed.

Umm it will be when they start spamming it, and it's AOE not single target. Oh and some creatures do have metamagic feats... mainly the bosses that will be casting this.

[HumanRogue]

Horrid wilting won't be that bad since monsters don't use feats. 20d6? thats 90-120 damage without saving fort saves for most people are high my caster has a 24 fort save buffed.

With SR fixed we will still get hit but our ability to hit them will be compromized. unless were talking low level content.

I thought that some of the baddies were using feats now (I know I've seen some turn Power Attack on and I thought some of the hobgoblin casters turned some metamagic feats on too, alhtough I could be wrong).

If they tossed out some maximized Horrid Wilting spells, they would then be hitting for 40d6, a maximized empowered one would hit for 50d6... There has to be some way to stop that kind of damage (Or dodge it or something...)

Edit: I agree that changing SR would probably hit players harder than the baddies due to the fact that they are much higher level than we are...

[Drider]

If they tossed out some maximized Horrid Wilting spells, they would then be hitting for 40d6, a maximized empowered one would hit for 50d6... There has to be some way to stop that kind of damage (Or dodge it or something...)

Well you get a fort save.. and the way to avoid it, let your party members take aggro then stay on the opposite side of the room that they are in.

[HumanRogue]

Well you get a fort save.. and the way to avoid it, let your party members take aggro then stay on the opposite side of the room that they are in.

The old 'Sacrifice the Tank' trick...

[Nero]

that makes it similar to an AOE disintigrate.

sounds pretty painful to me.

Nah disintigrate is much worse. 2d6 a level. A creature casting that would put out 40d6. Thats painful but hey only one creature casts that often at the moment. The beholder! But of course disintgrate is even weaker when a save is made. 5d6? PShaww 18-30 damage on a save....

As for the 26 SR. Most enemy casters are humanoid. With low Cr by comparison so yeah it holds pretty well. One thing is in all the times I've gone with pugs Ive only seen SR M cast 2-3 times. Then again most pugs also are 75% drow. So they don't think its that required. On a side now. Why is it everyone and their dog has a drow character! I mean really I know they are well suited for almost every class in the game but still.

When I hold my tournament I am gonna do a race count just to see how many of what class and race show up. I got a feeling on the numbers.

[Laith]

The old 'Sacrifice the Tank' trick...

bah, even flesh golems are beyond falling for that these days

strangly enough, they're intelligent and can be intimidated/diplomacied though *shrug*

[moorewr]

What are you doing using damaging spells against enemies anyway.

Red Names. Turbine wont let me do anything else.

[Drider]

As for the 26 SR. Most enemy casters are humanoid. With low Cr by comparison so yeah it holds pretty well. One thing is in all the times I've gone with pugs Ive only seen SR M cast 2-3 times. Then again most pugs also are 75% drow.

Mass SR is the first thing my cleric casts for a buff, don't leave home without it. As for 75% Drow, that seems pretty inflated. I don't notice that many of them. Although I'm guilty of using Drow for my 2 cha based characters, but that's the only reason.

[MysticTheurge]

Monsters will be increasing in hit dice and levels faster then we will and fixing SR will only really benefit the monster.

Edit: I agree that changing SR would probably hit players harder than the baddies due to the fact that they are much higher level than we are...

HD don't go into the SR calculations, just caster level.

And I don't believe enemy caster levels are that out of control compared to our own. Higher, to be sure, but not "soooo high" that SR won't make a difference.

[HumanRogue]

HD don't go into the SR calculations, just caster level.

And I don't believe enemy caster levels are that out of control compared to our own. Higher, to be sure, but not "soooo high" that SR won't make a difference.

At this point its really hard to say how high an enemy caster level is, so you may be right in that regard. I do know that when they cast Dispel Magic (The effects of which are determined only by caster level), they tend to knock almost all my buffs off which means that they are higher level than us. (Of course we 'tend' to play smarter with spell penetration feats, enhancements, and items to get past SR)

So, I guess my point is, its hard to say who it would benefit more from a change to SR.

[DSL]

If they tossed out some maximized Horrid Wilting spells, they would then be hitting for 40d6, a maximized empowered one would hit for 50d6... There has to be some way to stop that kind of damage (Or dodge it or something...)

Edit: I agree that changing SR would probably hit players harder than the baddies due to the fact that they are much higher level than we are...

Huh? Did I miss something, or would a maximized version simply be 120 dmg instead of 40d6? Empowered it would likely not go over 170. Any way you look at it, it would hurt, but if it isn't being spammed out by multiple casters it shouldn't be too bad, and in any case a 20th level caster probably won't have that much trouble cutting through player SR.

I do believe that SR against direct damage evocations would in fact benefit the NPC's more. Ultimately, in my experience such damage is rarely a huge problem for players (after mid levels anyway), and when it is it's likely that your SR would be of negligable benefit. On the other hand a great deal of caster effectiveness does in fact stem from such spells, contrary to what you seem to think MT. Wall of Fire alone is probably responsible for the demise of more MOBs than any other spell, including such spells as FoD, PK, and Haste. In any case, there is no question that players are routinely capable of dealing vastly higher amounts of damage via these spells than the MOBs (even, arguably, in relation to their hp).

[MysticTheurge]

In any case, there is no question that players are routinely capable of dealing vastly higher amounts of damage via these spells than the MOBs (even, arguably, in relation to their hp).

And what happens when you add in the fact that while only a fraction of enemies have spell resistance at all, pretty much every PC could have it at higher levels?

[HumanRogue]

Huh? Did I miss something, or would a maximized version simply be 120 dmg instead of 40d6? Empowered it would likely not go over 170. Any way you look at it, it would hurt, but if it isn't being spammed out by multiple casters it shouldn't be too bad, and in any case a 20th level caster probably won't have that much trouble cutting through player SR..

Cast by a 20th level caster, without saving would be 20d6 or up to 120 points of damage (Save for 60). Maximized multiplies it 2 times to 40d6 or up to 240 points (Save for 120). Add empower on to that and it goes up to 50d6 or 300 points of damage (Save for 150). Even if you save for half, hitting the entire party for that much damage could be devestating since there is NO way to stop it.