I wanna try a bard but im clueless

[nbhs275]

Forgetting specific build advice for the moment, the thing to realize with Bards is they are the most versatile (and therefore fun) class in the game in my opinion. You can pretty much "emulate" almost any other class in the game by focusing one way or another. While that particular emulation might not do everything the other class can do, the Bard does other things (mainly with songs) that no other class can bring. So, you lose a few things, but gain fascinate and buffs that no other class can match.

To me you just have to decide what you find fun and what you want to do besides buff and fascinate with songs. Once you know what that is you can talk about what type of build etc...

Otherwise you are just going to get a million people telling you a million +2 different things. The reason for this is the versatility of the class, everyone has their way of doing things and thinks it is the "best" way to go. There is not really a best way to go with Bards although you can certainly make a poor build without forethought.

My advice would be to think about what primary thing you would like to do with your Bard. You could pick CC casting, healing, melee, ranged combat, trap skills, etc... Then think of what else you would like to have as a secondary focus. Then you will have a good idea of what to build. In general the best builds tend to focus on a couple of things, while almost all Bards can fascinate/song buff well essentially for free.

That is not to say that you can't do a lot of things well, but generally with only ~5 feats (depending on class breakdown) you do have to pick a couple of things to be your primary focus and what you do best.

If you can balance your build and try to conserve feats, without going into long chains, and giving yourself unneccessary required feats, the 5ish you get should be enough.

heres a little view of some common bard feats, and mistakes.

Mental Toughness: 75 sp, and is a required feat if your taking spellsinger. A strong choice for most bards, and has no true downside

Heighten: Casting bards think that this feat will give thier spells SOOO much better, but forget that it burns more spellpoints, and is often redundant. If your looking to enhance the DC of your spells through feats, spell focus enchantment is a much stronger choice.

Toughness: 16 HP. Not much, and isnt truly worth a feat slot unless you also have access to toughness enhancements like dwarf toughness or some from a fighter/barbarian dip.

Extend: Take it, you will use it very often.

Power attack: If your gunna be a melee bard, you want this feat. Its what makes DPS DPS.

Improved Mental Toughness: Now, this is a toughy. Its only 70 sp, and if you have mental toughness, mana shouldnt be a problem. Also, just think of it this way, its not even 3 extended hastes.

Weapon focus: Its required for warchanter, but isnt worth taking if your not taking warchanter.

Two handed fighting: Its a very long chain, thats only worth having when you have it all. Too much investment for an average bard.

Two weapon fighting: Yet again, long chain. But is stronger then THF, and plays well with bard songs.

Improved crit: If your doing any melee, its what you want. Pick whichever your using(slashing for axes, greatswords, and you duel khopesh ppl, piecing for finesse bards)

Skill focus: UMD: Well, if your going for umd, and you got a spot for it, take it. You wanna have a 39 umd atleast, for failless heal scrolls

Skill focus : Haggle: If your haggle is above 40, the difference starts to dwindle.

Skill focus: anything else: Not worth the hassle....unless your rogue//bard then maybe for disable or something.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Mad, please show me how you fascinate vermin and things with mind-immunity effects (aka, madstone infected critters).

Darn it, I had *almost* in there, but must gotten lost in editing.

[Zenako]

Yah I too wanna see some dancing spiders and oozes...mmm. I mean Rusties do push ups. Hobgoblins get all funky on you.

Best thing for vermin...paralyzer....

15th level Bard Song...Fascinate the Rest!.

We get Fascinate for most things, then Song of the Dead for the occasional undead we might run acrosss (not), and then Song of the Makers for all those constructs to put them in a holding trance. So we next need Song of the Mindless to let us get the vermin and otherwise mindless things normally immune to other songs. Preq of something like Perform 18 to get would work.

[Mad_Bombardier]

We get Fascinate for most things, then Song of the Dead for the occasional undead we might run acrosss (not), and then Song of the Makers for all those constructs to put them in a holding trance. So we next need Song of the Mindless to let us get the vermin and otherwise mindless things normally immune to other songs. Preq of something like Perform 18 to get would work.

Unfortunately, Rangers have that niche already covered. And D&D is a very niche oriented game.

[EinarMal]

If you can balance your build and try to conserve feats, without going into long chains, and giving yourself unneccessary required feats, the 5ish you get should be enough.

heres a little view of some common bard feats, and mistakes.

Mental Toughness: 75 sp, and is a required feat if your taking spellsinger. A strong choice for most bards, and has no true downside

Heighten: Casting bards think that this feat will give thier spells SOOO much better, but forget that it burns more spellpoints, and is often redundant. If your looking to enhance the DC of your spells through feats, spell focus enchantment is a much stronger choice.

Toughness: 16 HP. Not much, and isnt truly worth a feat slot unless you also have access to toughness enhancements like dwarf toughness or some from a fighter/barbarian dip.

Extend: Take it, you will use it very often.

Power attack: If your gunna be a melee bard, you want this feat. Its what makes DPS DPS.

Improved Mental Toughness: Now, this is a toughy. Its only 70 sp, and if you have mental toughness, mana shouldnt be a problem. Also, just think of it this way, its not even 3 extended hastes.

Weapon focus: Its required for warchanter, but isnt worth taking if your not taking warchanter.

Two handed fighting: Its a very long chain, thats only worth having when you have it all. Too much investment for an average bard.

Two weapon fighting: Yet again, long chain. But is stronger then THF, and plays well with bard songs.

Improved crit: If your doing any melee, its what you want. Pick whichever your using(slashing for axes, greatswords, and you duel khopesh ppl, piecing for finesse bards)

Skill focus: UMD: Well, if your going for umd, and you got a spot for it, take it. You wanna have a 39 umd atleast, for failless heal scrolls

Skill focus : Haggle: If your haggle is above 40, the difference starts to dwindle.

Skill focus: anything else: Not worth the hassle....unless your rogue//bard then maybe for disable or something.

I don't really disagree with anything you say here, but you still can't be great at everything with 5 feats. You can be pretty good at melee and casting but not great. To be great at either it really pretty much takes all 5 feats.

There are probably some other feats as well that some take like empower healing, or a weapon prof. if you are a pure Bard to use a greataxe or greatsword.

[nibel]

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA have you ever played a bard or with a good one? I know my bard is crazy good, and a few others that are nasty nasty customers (think quicktoez). Im sorry if your bard is nothing more then a spot filler, haggle bot, but bards are a class that should not be under estimated.

To the OP, their is ALOT of things you can do with a bard. You can focus heavily on casting and buffing, heavily on melee, or go with a strong balance of both. There are many good builds in this portion of the board. I know my personal build isnt up right now(havent replaced it yet) but for a decent battle bard use einarmal's build. It has strong melee, though it does sacrifice high casting and skills for it.

Just to not repeat myself, i just tryed to say what EinarMal said very better. Bards are jokers and there's nothing wrong with it. Your last paragraph just confirm it (the part i bold on quote).

(Just to ask, because i'm not american: "Joker" is a offensive term? Because when i think on the Joker word, i can only figure the Batman's Archvillan and the card with a clown)

And in any way the bard take, it probly still being the toon on your acc with the best Haggle (Charisma as primary status, Haggle as class skill, and Haggle enhacements).

[nbhs275]

Just to not repeat myself, i just tryed to say what EinarMal said very better. Bards are jokers and there's nothing wrong with it. Your last paragraph just confirm it (the part i bold on quote).

(Just to ask, because i'm not american: "Joker" is a offensive term? Because when i think on the Joker word, i can only figure the Batman's Archvillan and the card with a clown)

And in any way the bard take, it probly still being the toon on your acc with the best Haggle (Charisma as primary status, Haggle as class skill, and Haggle enhacements).

joker isnt a bad word in the states, just the way you used it, it seemed like you thought bards arent to be taken seriously.

[nibel]

joker isnt a bad word in the states, just the way you used it, it seemed like you thought bards arent to be taken seriously.

/understood

Just because "coringa" (joker in portuguese) is a very neutral term here, and sometimes i forget that literal translation do not means exactly what im thinking.

[nbhs275]

lol your pork and cheese? ah then i can relate! Im not but the city i live in is predomitly spanish and portuguese.

[Ganak]

Started a enchanting/healing focused spellsinger bard which is now lvl 8, and loved playing a bard. I was surprised that I can contribute quite decently in melee too. I learned Bard builds can have so much variety, so I have already developed a warchanting 10 bard/4 fighter stunning blow specialist build (currently lvl 2).

You can determine what you enjoy doing most playing the game, and roll a bard with those strengths.

I also learned:
If the party is overmatched, facinate is a god send.
The party is much stronger for your buffs, invest in them.
Invest in UMD, any RR item is fair game and its nice to be able to use any scroll or wand in the game.
No matter what, make sure you pick up the haste spell.

[wemery73]

thxs good info

Look closely at the three special types of Bards first. Spellsinger (most often taken), Warchanter and Virtuoso. They all cater to different approaches to the game.

Taking Drow lets you reach a 34 CHA without finding anything real special, just the +2 tome for 1750 will do it, which can make the DC on your WILL save spells hit ~30 with the right training. Most mobs WILL FAIL. Charm and Dominate them at will.

If you go the robe route, pump up dex a bit and consider taking something like Weapon Finesse. A lot of finesseable weapons are already on the Bard and Drow lists of useable weapons. You will not be a DPS hound this way, but using debuffers (Cursespewing, Destruction, Wounding, etc and later on things like Paralyzers) can really help the party and yourself. With some spells and songs, you will do enough damage to get through most DR even with a middling to low strength.

Keep UMD, Perform and Haggle maxed out. UMD is obvious, Perform base skill will keep opening up new songs for you, and Haggle is a financial godsend to poor toons. Without taking too many special steps, I can hit low 50's haggle skill with my bard. That gives you items at below list price from vendors, and moves your selling price from around 10% to close to 25% of the retail value. Those plats will really add up over time.

Going with dex and robes allows you to use a variety of robes as the situation calls for. One nice thing about having effects on robes, is that besides them being instant change, you also get to see which robe you have on. My Robe of the Magi looks very different than my Heavy Fort Robe so I do not have to hunt and check about which necklace or ring I am wearing to get a special effect.

Being a master of UMD that means never having to see a racial restricted item you cannot take advantage of. I would guess that about 2/3 of the items on my Drow Bard list some other race as being required, but with most item difficulties being in the low 20's or less, any bard with a standing UMD in the 30's just auto equips stuff all the time.

With a well played bard, you will make ANY group have an eaasier time with any quest I can think of. You have good roles in raids, you can (if you take the right songs (Song of the Dead) you can stop virtually any undead in their tracks to let the party regroup.

Bards have unmatched CC and buff abilities and can be a lot of fun to play with. They can work quite well in small groups too, even solo if you want to.

[Arianrhod]

(Just to ask, because i'm not american: "Joker" is a offensive term? Because when i think on the Joker word, i can only figure the Batman's Archvillan and the card with a clown)

I think the equivalent term for American audiences might be "wild card"

[nbhs275]

Back to the OP, If you go to the build in this forum, EinarMal's build and the Warforge warchanter are good builds for heavy melee warchanter. Which i know i run all kinds of things up in those threads, but its not to say i dont appreciate them. I play with quite a few people with those builds and it works out fine, i juat love fighting about the stupid numbers involved. There is my build, the balanced bard, which is a good middleline build that can do most things very well. Though i will admit It does make use of alot of higher end gear.

[EinarMal]

Back to the OP, If you go to the build in this forum, EinarMal's build and the Warforge warchanter are good builds for heavy melee warchanter. Which i know i run all kinds of things up in those threads, but its not to say i dont appreciate them. I play with quite a few people with those builds and it works out fine, i juat love fighting about the stupid numbers involved. There is my build, the balanced bard, which is a good middleline build that can do most things very well. Though i will admit It does make use of alot of higher end gear.

numbers? We don't need no stinking numbers.....(looks around for A_Sheep)

The best advice I can give is pick a build that you think somewhat fits what you want to do, then play it. Then blow it up and build something based on how you play and what you learned. There isn't any build that is "The One", but it helps to start with something solid.

[nbhs275]

numbers? We don't need no stinking numbers.....(looks around for A_Sheep)

The best advice I can give is pick a build that you think somewhat fits what you want to do, then play it. Then blow it up and build something based on how you play and what you learned. There isn't any build that is "The One", but it helps to start with something solid.

truth. The numbers are just fun to mess around with on paper, but you throw in the variables of playstyle, weaponry, and tactics, and it all gos out the window.

[A_Sheep]

numbers? We don't need no stinking numbers.....(looks around for A_Sheep)

Wha... Wha.. What??!?!?!

*Mathamabarian FRENZY!!!!! Int(e^x)=i^u*

In a world without numbers, how would I make decisions?... Now I'm all depressed....

[EinarMal]

Wha... Wha.. What??!?!?!

*Mathamabarian FRENZY!!!!! Int(e^x)=i^u*

In a world without numbers, how would I make decisions?... Now I'm all depressed....

Ah, you know I was just joking I love numbers as much as anyone! The problem is it becomes difficult as you know to compare all the trade offs, at that point it becomes more opinion. Is 10-20% less DPS worth +2-3 DC on dancing sphere etc.... Then it comes down to what you want to do with the character more than what the math says is *better*.

[Mad_Bombardier]

numbers? We don't need no stinking numbers.....(looks around for A_Sheep)

As long as you don't touch his spreadsheets and graphing tools.

[Oreg]

You guys crack me up sometimes

The way Nibel said "Joker" implied a Joker in cards i.e. a very versatile and very wanted addition to your hand. How anyone interpreted it as "a joke" is beyond me. The fact that 3 people actually posted that they misinterpreted is hilarious. His whole paragraph basically praises the bard......oh nm. Carry on doing whatever it is you are doing here.