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  1. #1
    Community Member Flint_Redbeard's Avatar
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    Default I wanna try a bard but im clueless

    Well everyone i've talked to thats made a bard has had a great time with it and really enjoyed playing it. So i've thought about it and ive decided i'll probably go drow and pure bard. But i've heard and seen all kinds of mixes bard/sorc bard/ranger bard/rogue bard/fighter. Not really sure what i want or what other people want or expect of a bard.

    I played a PNP elf bard once, i played songs buffed and healed people and half @$$'d with a bow. But as we all know D&D is not DDO so i have to rethink the feats and strategy etc. Because of their cha i'd say id have a maxed out umd for wands and raise dead scrolls. But i dont know what combat would be like since ranged is apparently gimped compared to melee, and bards suck at melee cause of the low str or dex compared to other classes.

    Basically I really dont know what kind or bard to make or what people are expecting of me when they invite me to a group. So if someone could point me in the right direction id appreciate it.

  2. #2
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Bards are jokers. Period. They are naturally halfway competent in almost everything. Is just your our option to focus in one way over the others (melee & Warchanter, buff & Heal spells, AoE status spells, ranged, fascinate everything on the way...) or maintain the middle way. Generally, they invite bards waiting for a wand-healer and a box breaker. Or they just want to gamble on you and see what happens.

    But in anyway, i suggest you to leave Haggle as high as possible. Waste a feat or two is your option, but with a high charisma, the enhacements, and the correct itens, your bard can be the central trader for all your others toons. Even a non-dedicated bard can have a big haggle compared to all other toons.

  3. #3
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    Look closely at the three special types of Bards first. Spellsinger (most often taken), Warchanter and Virtuoso. They all cater to different approaches to the game.

    Taking Drow lets you reach a 34 CHA without finding anything real special, just the +2 tome for 1750 will do it, which can make the DC on your WILL save spells hit ~30 with the right training. Most mobs WILL FAIL. Charm and Dominate them at will.

    If you go the robe route, pump up dex a bit and consider taking something like Weapon Finesse. A lot of finesseable weapons are already on the Bard and Drow lists of useable weapons. You will not be a DPS hound this way, but using debuffers (Cursespewing, Destruction, Wounding, etc and later on things like Paralyzers) can really help the party and yourself. With some spells and songs, you will do enough damage to get through most DR even with a middling to low strength.

    Keep UMD, Perform and Haggle maxed out. UMD is obvious, Perform base skill will keep opening up new songs for you, and Haggle is a financial godsend to poor toons. Without taking too many special steps, I can hit low 50's haggle skill with my bard. That gives you items at below list price from vendors, and moves your selling price from around 10% to close to 25% of the retail value. Those plats will really add up over time.

    Going with dex and robes allows you to use a variety of robes as the situation calls for. One nice thing about having effects on robes, is that besides them being instant change, you also get to see which robe you have on. My Robe of the Magi looks very different than my Heavy Fort Robe so I do not have to hunt and check about which necklace or ring I am wearing to get a special effect.

    Being a master of UMD that means never having to see a racial restricted item you cannot take advantage of. I would guess that about 2/3 of the items on my Drow Bard list some other race as being required, but with most item difficulties being in the low 20's or less, any bard with a standing UMD in the 30's just auto equips stuff all the time.

    With a well played bard, you will make ANY group have an eaasier time with any quest I can think of. You have good roles in raids, you can (if you take the right songs (Song of the Dead) you can stop virtually any undead in their tracks to let the party regroup.

    Bards have unmatched CC and buff abilities and can be a lot of fun to play with. They can work quite well in small groups too, even solo if you want to.
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  4. #4
    Community Member CSFurious's Avatar
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    Default drow high dex

    drow bards can have high dex & not hurt their chr that much

    you can fight some off-tank buffed with weapon finesse & stat-damaging weapons

    you can also fight ranged with a repeater or rapid reload; i fight with paralyzing, cursespewing & banishing crossbows with rapid reload

    bard is hard to play well, but even basic bard songs & buff are appreciated by smart players

    good luck

  5. #5
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    Default Trying also

    I just rolled my first drow bard and I enjoy playing her very much. I really wanted to start the game with that character but was swayed from not doing so after reading the forums. After maxing a cleric and playing some other classes I have now created that bard.

    To me, bards are probably one of the most diffcult classes to master becuase you do not truly become "uber" at the combat aspect of the game.

    But, some of the best players I have met, those who know strategy, understand the creatures, have all been bards. I would make a generalization and call them the "Thinking persons class". As a result, for most people I would recommend running another class before making a bard to learn the intricacies of the game and then a make a bard.

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  6. #6
    Community Member Mad_Bombardier's Avatar
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    Exclamation Say what?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Bards are jokers. Period. They are naturally halfway competent in almost everything. Is just your our option to focus in one way over the others (melee & Warchanter, buff & Heal spells, AoE status spells, ranged, fascinate everything on the way...) or maintain the middle way.
    I'm not sure if this is an insult or just a joke. Many people do not realize it, but Bards are the most important class in DDO. Bards may not fit one of the classic 4 spots in a D&D party, but they make everyone else better. And there is no class that can even come close to filling their role. You can have a 3 man group, add a solid Bard as a 4th, and it runs smoother than a 6 man traditional party.

    Basically, no class can:
    • add to all caster spell DCs (w/ Spellsinger)
    • add +8 or more to all attack rolls
    • add +6 or more to all damage
    • Fascinate almost every creature in the game (w/ Music of Makers&Dead)

    And, Bards can do many of the things other classes can do:
    • Fighting
    • Crowd Control or debuff casting
    • Buffing
    • Healing/Curative
    • UMD most any scroll, wand, or item in the game.
    The old AD&D adage, "Jack of all trades, master of none" does not apply to a 3.5/DDO Bard. They are simply irreplacable!
    Last edited by Mad_Bombardier; 10-11-2007 at 02:59 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmdag4 View Post
    To me, bards are probably one of the most diffcult classes to master becuase you do not truly become "uber" at the combat aspect of the game.
    While I don't disagree with the difficult to master part battle bards whether TWF or THF can put out damage that is definitely near the top of the DPS classes. If you look around at the various battle bard builds and read the posts many people play them and can keep up with just about anyone in the DPS department.

  8. #8
    Community Member Flint_Redbeard's Avatar
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    ok i've seen alot of bards do the light repeater route so i think i might do the same. UMD, haggle, perform of course those will be maxed but what about diplomacy, bluff or some of the others.

    Here goes drow bard
    str 10
    dex 16
    con 12
    int 14
    wis 8
    cha 18

    hmm feats: EWP light repeating xbow or rapid reload as mentioned, Mental toughness, spell focus: enchantment, weapon finesse, improved mental toughness.

    Or if someone can suggest better feats i'll be opt to listen.

    Specialty: spellsinger sounds interesting 100 sp and +2 umd raise dead scrolls and rr items will be mine for the taking.

    thanx for the responses thus far, tell me what you think of the build or how i can improve it.

  9. #9
    Community Member Prinstoni's Avatar
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    ok turning off vail of RP....

    I rerolled my bard 8 times trying dex build, str build, umd specked, haggle bot, and generalist.

    My final solution was somewhere between generalist and melee bard, and I would dare anyone in game to say he is not one of best bard on Thelanis (meet me in PVP and say it). I can tank without hold spells almost any melee in pvp, hold the casters, and he does much much more; UMD, buffs, haggle, diplomacy (just items and base char modifier), fascinate, holds, charms, and heals. Loved and welcomed by all (except in pvp )

    Here is what you need to do. Mine is a drow, but if I rerolled him again he would be 32 point elf.

    32 point Elf bard base stats
    Chaoitic Good

    16 str
    14 dex
    12 con (minimum)
    9 int (eat a +1 tome at L1)
    9 wisdom (eat a +1 tome at L1)
    16 char

    Concentrate Skill focus in
    UMD (maxed)
    Perform (maxed)
    Haggle
    Balance
    Jump
    Spot
    Tumble (at least 2 points to get it open)

    Feats
    Extend Spell
    Dodge (or spell focus enchantment)
    Mentall Toughness (or Spell focus Enchantment)
    Toughness (or Greater Spell focus Enchantment)
    Improved critical: slashing

    Enhancements L14
    Spell slinger line (very nice extra 100 extra sps and +1 dc to spells)
    Bard Inspired Attack I, II, III
    Bard Inspired Damage I, II, III
    Bard Lingering Song I, II, III
    Bard Specialty I: Spellsong Trance
    Elf Dex I, II
    Concentration I, II
    Bard Lyric of Song I
    Spell Damage Amplification Positive I, II
    Bard Charisma I, II, III
    Bard energy of Music I, II
    (and a couple points to spare)

    easy to reach L14 stats
    24 str (26 with rage cast) (16 base, 6 item, +2 tome)
    22 dex (14 base, +2 elf, +6 stat item)
    18 con (20 with +2 tome) (20 with rage cast) (12 base, +6 item)
    10 int (+1 tome at L1)
    10 wisdom (+1 tome at L1)
    28 (30 with +2 tome) (16 base, +6 item, +3 level, +3 enhancement)

    With +6 dex bonus you can fill out the delvin suit and that is all you need for an ubber light armor package (use mithral BP until you get it).

    You will have a +31 to hit and 19 to damage buffed up with a +5 weapon.

    I recommend slashing and longswords because they are readily available.

    My drow Bard at L14 is...
    23 str (25 with rage) (15 base, +2 tome, +6 item)
    22 dex (13 base, +1 tome, +2 elf, +6 item)
    20 con (22 with rage) (12 base, +2 tome, +6 item)
    10 int (10 base)
    12 wisdom (10 base, +2 tome)
    30 charisma (17 base, +3 level, +2 tome, +6 item, +2 enhancement)

    Obviously, He is running the reaver like crazy for a +3 str and char tomes. I built him banking on future implementation of a +3 tome, but I wouldn't reccommend that unless you feel like grinding to death. 17 reaver raids with this character and still no +3's.

    My bard has an admirable standing ac of 45 (10 base, 6 dex, 10 armor, 7 shield, 3 natural armor (potions or DQ ring), +5 deflextion, +4 dodge (+1 feat, +3 chattering ring). Obviously it is higher with a pali, ranger, and defensive fighting enabled +4, +2, +2 53 ac.

    0% spell failure, 260 hps (not counting song and GH), 920 sps, Heavy Fort, sr 19, (17, 26, 21) saves, and a 30 to hit 18 to damage buffed (which he always is being a Bard ).

    And only 1 less to hit with a bow/crossbow with the same damage...

    okay now back to RP.

    /drink another pint of Prinstoni's Dark Elf Ale
    Last edited by Prinstoni; 10-11-2007 at 12:55 PM.

  10. #10
    Community Member Prinstoni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flint Redbeard View Post
    ok i've seen alot of bards do the light repeater route so i think i might do the same. UMD, haggle, perform of course those will be maxed but what about diplomacy, bluff or some of the others.

    Here goes drow bard
    str 10
    dex 16
    con 12
    int 14
    wis 8
    cha 18

    hmm feats: EWP light repeating xbow or rapid reload as mentioned, Mental toughness, spell focus: enchantment, weapon finesse, improved mental toughness.

    Or if someone can suggest better feats i'll be opt to listen.

    Specialty: spellsinger sounds interesting 100 sp and +2 umd raise dead scrolls and rr items will be mine for the taking.

    thanx for the responses thus far, tell me what you think of the build or how i can improve it.
    I wouldn't recommend this because you will be a back line, low damage, party member. You definately don't need more than 10 int unless you are going 2 levels of rogue for traps (I wouldn't recommend that either, you will just be another nerfed multi class squishy). If you want a rogue build a rogue.

    Also, less than 10 wisdom is not a good idea, unless you like dancing in the middle of a fight.
    Last edited by Prinstoni; 10-10-2007 at 01:42 PM.

  11. #11
    Community Member skraus1's Avatar
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    First off, bards are one of the most varied classes out there. There are a million different ways to specialize with them effectively.

    Quote Originally Posted by tmdag4 View Post
    To me, bards are probably one of the most diffcult classes to master becuase you do not truly become "uber" at the combat aspect of the game.
    Seriously, check out the battlebard and warchanter threads. Many of the builds are quite close to the dps of a barbarian in full rage. DPS Barbarians are actually the people most impressed by my Zhaffy build, because I can almost match them in kills (they get my song as well), I can tank with my 343-380hp, and I take less damage than them due to displacement and evasion....all in a bright pink robe. I also give them tasty songs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flint Redbeard View Post
    hmm feats: EWP light repeating xbow or rapid reload as mentioned,
    Due to some weird DDO interpretation, rapid reload appears to have no effect on repeaters....unless it changed in mod 5 when they sped up repeaters.


    Quote Originally Posted by Prinstoni View Post
    (I wouldn't recommend that either, you will just be another nerfed multi class squishy). If you want a rogue build a rogue.
    Bards are easy to make into great rogues, as are rangers and wizards. I have never had ANYONE ever claim that my Zhaffy build was nerfed who has run with me. Strange/weird yes, cool yes, specialized yes, nerfed, never. Rogue 2 adds rogue skills and evasion, and pumps the reflex save, which adds to survivability. Sigtrent also posting a good rogue/bard build a few days back. If you want to go rogue, bard is a decent way to go, but as with everything bard, you will be giving up some things that some people find important.

    FYI, never melee the abbot with a low hp toon without evasion. You will die instantly from chain lighting.
    Last edited by skraus1; 10-10-2007 at 05:00 PM.

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  12. #12
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Default hmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Prinstoni View Post
    I wouldn't recommend this because you will be a back line, low damage, party member. You definately don't need more than 10 int unless you are going 2 levels of rogue for traps (I wouldn't recommend that either, you will just be another nerfed multi class squishy). If you want a rogue build a rogue.

    Also, less than 10 wisdom is not a good idea, unless you like dancing in the middle of a fight.
    Different strokes different folks. I somewhat agree with you regarding the repeater bard builds, but I have seen a few people pull it off fairly well especially when using disruption and banisher repeaters.

    Int is always a viable option for a bard and wisdom does not have to be especially if you are a non aggro bard type (see buffing/cc/healing bards). Will save is the primary save for the bard and with a +4 resistance item, greater hero, etc the bard naturally has a pretty good save especially if they are a halfling bard (halfling enhancements). In addition there are the new feats coming out in mod 6 (see development notes) which allow the usage of int instead of dex for reflex and charisma instead of wisdom for will saves if people are so concerned about will saves or reflex they can take those.

    Finally, a rogue bard is a very viable option. Alot of bards today get 2 levels of rogue for evasion and with the right equipment and progression can be decent rogues even with only just two levels of rogue.
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  13. #13
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    Default You are probably right

    Quote Originally Posted by EinarMal View Post
    While I don't disagree with the difficult to master part battle bards whether TWF or THF can put out damage that is definitely near the top of the DPS classes. If you look around at the various battle bard builds and read the posts many people play them and can keep up with just about anyone in the DPS department.
    You know, I have seen the builds and forum quotes. In my personal experience, I have yet to see a DPS bard as good as melees for a sustained period of time. That is not to say they are not out there, I just think they are rare. I also think it depends on how you focus playing your bard.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmdag4 View Post
    You know, I have seen the builds and forum quotes. In my personal experience, I have yet to see a DPS bard as good as melees for a sustained period of time. That is not to say they are not out there, I just think they are rare. I also think it depends on how you focus playing your bard.
    It takes a lot of focus and feats and most probably tend to be more balanced builds. I would say only a small percentage of Bards are really heavily DPS focused.

  15. #15
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Bombardier View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nibel
    Bards are jokers. Period. They are naturally halfway competent in almost everything. Is just your our option to focus in one way over the others (melee & Warchanter, buff & Heal spells, AoE status spells, ranged, fascinate everything on the way...) or maintain the middle way.
    I'm not sure if this is an insult or just a joke. Many people do not realize it, but Bards are the most important class in DDO. Bards may not fit one of the classic 4 spots in a D&D party, but they make everyone else better. And there is no class that can even come close to filling their role. You can have a 3 man group, add a solid Bard as a 4th, and it runs smoother than a 6 man traditional party.
    It's half a joke, half a "resumed analysis" of a bard. "Joker" was used on the way to say "fit in any place, do anything". In every PnP game, the bard is called the perfect fifth member. Why in DDO this will be different? So, he is a joker.

  16. #16
    Community Member skraus1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EinarMal View Post
    It takes a lot of focus and feats and most probably tend to be more balanced builds. I would say only a small percentage of Bards are really heavily DPS focused.

    Yep, this is probably why people say bards don't make very good melee. In fact I would say most bards are either balanced or casting speced.

    For most people it's counter intuitive to make a dps bard, although they work very well.

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  17. #17
    Community Member Blind_Skwerl's Avatar
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    I have a THF dps focused warforged warchanting Battlebard. Huge damage. My crits at level 8 with a carnifex (delara's) are in the 120's, and have about a 25% crit rate. If I am not playing way above my level, I can hit anything with power attack on. I have people all the time thinking I was the barbarian in the group until they see me play a song and cast the extended haste. Just did a Tempest Spine run and was able to tank level 15 blackguards with my own buffs... at 7bard / 1fighter. Crazy powerful.
    Last edited by Blind Skwerl; 10-10-2007 at 11:53 PM.
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  18. #18
    Community Member nbhs275's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Bards are jokers. Period. They are naturally halfway competent in almost everything. Is just your our option to focus in one way over the others (melee & Warchanter, buff & Heal spells, AoE status spells, ranged, fascinate everything on the way...) or maintain the middle way. Generally, they invite bards waiting for a wand-healer and a box breaker. Or they just want to gamble on you and see what happens.

    But in anyway, i suggest you to leave Haggle as high as possible. Waste a feat or two is your option, but with a high charisma, the enhacements, and the correct itens, your bard can be the central trader for all your others toons. Even a non-dedicated bard can have a big haggle compared to all other toons.
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA have you ever played a bard or with a good one? I know my bard is crazy good, and a few others that are nasty nasty customers (think quicktoez). Im sorry if your bard is nothing more then a spot filler, haggle bot, but bards are a class that should not be under estimated.

    To the OP, their is ALOT of things you can do with a bard. You can focus heavily on casting and buffing, heavily on melee, or go with a strong balance of both. There are many good builds in this portion of the board. I know my personal build isnt up right now(havent replaced it yet) but for a decent battle bard use einarmal's build. It has strong melee, though it does sacrifice high casting and skills for it.
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  19. #19
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    Forgetting specific build advice for the moment, the thing to realize with Bards is they are the most versatile (and therefore fun) class in the game in my opinion. You can pretty much "emulate" almost any other class in the game by focusing one way or another. While that particular emulation might not do everything the other class can do, the Bard does other things (mainly with songs) that no other class can bring. So, you lose a few things, but gain fascinate and buffs that no other class can match.

    To me you just have to decide what you find fun and what you want to do besides buff and fascinate with songs. Once you know what that is you can talk about what type of build etc...

    Otherwise you are just going to get a million people telling you a million +2 different things. The reason for this is the versatility of the class, everyone has their way of doing things and thinks it is the "best" way to go. There is not really a best way to go with Bards although you can certainly make a poor build without forethought.

    My advice would be to think about what primary thing you would like to do with your Bard. You could pick CC casting, healing, melee, ranged combat, trap skills, etc... Then think of what else you would like to have as a secondary focus. Then you will have a good idea of what to build. In general the best builds tend to focus on a couple of things, while almost all Bards can fascinate/song buff well essentially for free.

    That is not to say that you can't do a lot of things well, but generally with only ~5 feats (depending on class breakdown) you do have to pick a couple of things to be your primary focus and what you do best.
    Last edited by EinarMal; 10-11-2007 at 12:54 PM.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Bombardier
    Fascinate every creature in the game (w/ Music of Makers&Dead)
    Mad, please show me how you fascinate vermin and things with mind-immunity effects (aka, madstone infected critters).
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